New Karma: Complete Analysis

Muchashca·5/15/2015, 7:33:11 PM·19 votes·3,017 views

Over the last two updates, a number of updates have been made to Karma. According to ricklessabandon, who is behind these balance changes, the goal is to:

  1. Give her more power as a support
  2. Give her higher scaling into the lategame So, let's take a look at her gameplay, skills, utility, and numbers to see if the changes accomplish that.

By way of credentials, I've been maining Karma since her rework. By rank, I've carried as Support Karma from silver to Plat 5, and like to think I play her pretty well. In my opinion, the things that currently make her effective are:

  1. A variable and high utility kit, that can be used responsively to a wider variety of circumstances than most champions.
  2. The versatility to adapt well to the needs of the team, from full utility, to off-tank, to apc.
  3. A strong laning phase, including the ability to counter both all-in and poke lanes through smart play by poking hard enough that the enemy laners don't have enough hp to confidently engage in a 2v2.
  4. The ability to reset her Mantra quickly in a teamfight scenario by using opportune aoe abilities.
  5. Her power to zone high dps champions from a teamfight using her empowered Q.

An average game for me as is: Laning phase skills: Q - Poke down enemy laners, slow enemies that are trying to get in range to engage W - All in snare, when everything is setup to win 2v2 E - Used in trades to mitigate damage to adc, get in range for W, win trades R - Mostly used to empower Q when you can hit both enemy adc and support, W in 1v1 or 2v2 situations in which you're being focused, or baits under tower.

Midgame skills: I generally roam a lot during the midgame as Karma, getting killing and taking towers where lanes are behind, adding map pressure, and objective control. Q - Good for poking down enemy laners, putting your teammate at an advantage so the tower can be taken. Extra slow on escaping enemies. W - Used especially in 1v1s, good for setting up kills for teammates. E - Mostly for getting around the map, mitigating enemy poke. R - Used more frequently on W than during laning phase, RW is by far the best choice in any 1v1 situation because it does more consistent damage than Q, and the healing, especially when low, is huge when combined with shield. Q is empowered any time you can hit two or more enemies, or need to zone someone. RE is only used in medium to large skirmishes where its damage will hit three or more enemies.

Lategame skills: Lategame is all about objective control and teamfighting. Karma's teamfight is probably the main reason I do as well with her as I do. Q - Used for either dealing damage to a cluster of people, poking down enemies before a teamfight, or zoning an adc or apc during a teamfight. W - Generally used to stop anyone that tries to dive the adc or apc. E - Saved for the adc or apc, to allow them to position, deal damage, and prevent damage. R - Mantra is most important at this stage in the game. I always use it on W in a 1v1, but that's uncommon lategame. My usual strategy is to use E to help my top or jungler dive their carries, then use RE on my team, because it both shields the team and almost instantly resets Mantra due to the two teams being mixed together so much. After getting the mantra reset, I use RQ on the most dangerous carry on the enemy team while snaring any diving enemies. RQ is great for zoning out a carry for a few seconds, and does enough damage to create kill opportunities for teammates.

Karma's skills in this patch, not including costs, since they haven't changed.

Passive Autos reduce Mantra cooldown by 1 second, spells by 2 seconds

Q MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+ 60% AP) 25% slow for 1.5 seconds

Empowered Q BONUS MAGIC DAMAGE: 25 / 75 / 125 / 175 (+ 30% AP) 50% slow for 1.5 seconds 1.5 second delay DETONATION MAGIC DAMAGE: 50 / 150 / 250 / 350 (+ 60% AP) Max potential damage 155/350/590/785 (+ 150% AP)

W MAGIC DAMAGE: 60 / 110 / 160 / 210 / 260 (+ 60% AP) (three increments over two seconds) 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 root if enemy stays in 675 radius for two seconds.

Empowered W BONUS MAGIC DAMAGE: 75 / 150 / 225 / 300 (+ 60% AP) Same snare, but within 1000 radius 20% (+ 1% AP) * missing hp heal on cast and on snare

E SHIELD: 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 (+ 50% AP) for 4 seconds BONUS MOVEMENT SPEED: 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60% for 1.5 seconds

Empowered E AOE SHIELD: 30 / 70 / 110 / 150 (+ 30% AP) MAGIC DAMAGE: 60 / 140 / 220 / 300 (+ 60% AP) BONUS MOVEMENT SPEED: 60% for 1.5 seconds, all within 600 radius

Karma's skills on PBE Updated

Passive Autos lower Mantra cooldown by 1/1.25/1.5 (at 1, 7, 13 strangely) Spells lower Mantra by 2/2.5/3

Straight buff, positive change. Maybe people will realize she has a passive now. Buffed by 0/.25/.5 and 0/.5/1 compared to live.

Q & Empowered Q No changes

W 60 / 110 / 160 / 210 / 260 (+ 90% AP) 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 root if enemy stays in 675 radius for two seconds. Can target monsters.

Rickless just posted an update to this, and it was exactly what the community was asking for. The ability to target minions has returned, which isn't a bit deal for normal W, but it is for RW. The increased scaling fomr 60% - 90% is nice as well. It will hit harder than Q lategame, which makes sense, because the tether is much harder to land. Good buff!

Empowered W All bonus damage from Mantra removed, deals the recently increased W damage. 20% missing health heal on cast and on snare. (Need to confirm) Snare increased to 2.75/3/3.25/3.5 seconds

I haven't been able to confirm this yet, but it seems her original healing has been restored, which was the biggest thing we've been asking for. The notes Rickless has been posting are horrendous, sadly, and it's hard to tell. The first update says the healing was removed, and no update has been posted since then, but it does seem to be back. Assuming these new numbers are accurate, lane and duelist Karma are back, just will some waveclear nerfs and snare buffs. The skill still won't do as much damage as it used to with a full tether, but the increased snare is a fair compensation for that.

E Cooldown lowered to 10/9/8/7/6 seconds from 10 seconds at all ranks Mana cost lowered to 60/65/70/75/80 from 60/70/80/90/100. Shield amount decreased to 80/110/140/170/200 (+30% AP) from 80/120/160/200/240 (+30% AP)

More shields more often, slightly smaller. Decent buff.

Empowered E No longer deals damage Now increases primary shield by 30/90/150/210 (+30% AP) AoE shield amount increased to 50% of the primary target's shield from 30/70/100/150

Primary shield received a slight buff, on top of the small buff on base E. The numbers are a little hard to calculate for this, so I'm going to put out a scenario where Karma goes mostly AP, ending the game with around 600, and levels shield second. It's not stated that the normal shield still has the .3 AP scaling, but I'm just going to go with the assumption that it does, giving the primary mantra shield a .6 ap scaling. The numbers would be then, roughly: AoE shield goes from 30/90/150/210 (+30% AP) to around 55 (+39 at 65 AP)/100(+72 at 120 AP)/145(+144 at 240 AP)/160(+240 at 400 AP)/205(+360 at 600 AP). So, this is a good buff overall IF you're building AP on her, which is fairly normal. Heaving hp builds, such as Jungle or Top, or full utility builds, or builds that level shield 3rd (leveling shield 2nd is expected on support, but leveling W second is normal for Karma top. At least it was, there is little reason to do so anymore) will have roughly the same AoE shield as before. The biggest change is the damage, which would lose 60 / 140 / 220 / 300 (+ 60% AP) magic damage. The two main reasons I ever use RE are to get a fast cooldown on Mantra during a teamfight and to fast push waves of minions. I use RE very, very rarely to setup engages, because Mantra is so critical during the teamfight itself, and there are better ways to engage. The new RE would provide a bigger shield for four seconds, and could be impactful during a teamfight in ways that the current shield isn't. It seems the emphasis is to make it more of a standard AoE shield, and less of a unique, useful, versatile spell.

Overall positive changes: Increase her snare time by .75/1/1.25/1.5, at the cost of 75 / 150 / 225 / 300 ( + 30% AP) Lets her use smaller shields more frequently. Buffs her passive to reset Mantra in general skirmishes. Increases potential AoE shields for AP builds.

Overall negative changes: Decrease the damage in her overall kit by 135 / 290 / 445 / 600 (+ 90% AP) Removes many reasons to use R on anything but Q, removing one of her most dynamic and unique aspects, and possibly the main reason I play her. Removes her ability to reset Mantra quickly in teamfight scenarios.

Updated PBE skill and analysis This third wave of changes was a big move in the right direction. Many of the parts the community hated most have been removed, the ability to heal for RW has been finally restored, but the shield bomb is still absent. Rather than being a net loss, the parts of Karma that have been removed are being traded for decent buffs, and she should be fairly strong in her current rendition as Support, Mid/Top, and even Jungle. She'll have greater difficulty quickly clearing waves, but will be able to shield for more during teamfights or snare for longer. The current trick of being able to Mantra twice during a single teamfight has been removed by removing the damage on RE, so it will only be possible if you get an exceptionally lucky RQ. I will need to play her to be sure, but these changes seem like a net buff now.

36 Comments

Darth Pixy Misa5/15/2015, 7:54:55 PM18 votes

The changes are even worse now..... Karma does not need to be changed, No one wants Karma to be shoehorned into being a support. Please stop this cycle of Mages becoming support and then getting nerfed into oblivion to the point that support is all they can do.

PoE00dpWDk5/15/2015, 10:51:42 PM6 votes

I am going to throw my tinfoil hat on here and make a predication for the future

  • Changes go though, old players are unhappy new picker uppers don't see point, win rate drops followed shortly by pick rate

  • Numbers get buffed a lot, new players pick up on another free-lo train, and cue permaban status

  • More nerfs to come, till back where it all started but just with different stat spread and then comes the cries for rework

  • Enough time has been spent on Karma, lets just let it sit for two years or so.

I can see the point to the new tether and it seems like it could be cool and all to heal up your whole team by marking a target and letting your team go to town, but at the same time I don't see what was wrong with the good old health bomb already in place. So many good things are in this little update and this W change shoots the whole thing in the foot. I hope they drop that W change but I am to cynical to believe that would happen at this point.

TauNoob15/15/2015, 8:54:14 PM5 votes

I honestly think they should focus on the AP Duelist part of her more than the support, it's more interesting, more engaging, and more FUN than blasting enemies with q's botlane all day.

1000angrybees5/15/2015, 7:57:46 PM4 votes

I'm not able to play karma very effectively yet and I feel like these changes would just make her even harder to play. Also, I have to agree with the empowered W and E changes. I honestly would probably never use them over R+Q.

4fortytwo25/16/2015, 4:10:10 PM3 votes

You should consider updating your post since the R+W heal is back to 20% of the missing health again.

Also the guy who works on her tweeted a new set of changes hitting pbe next week. upcoming changes for pbe

shield cd is going up again a little bit (compared to current pbe), AP ratio on W increased to 90% (from 60%) the rest is the same as on pbe right now

edit: ah missed something, the bonus snare duration changed too, went from .75/1/1.25/1.50 to .5/.75/1.0/1.25

NorthernDruid5/15/2015, 10:14:01 PM3 votes

Nice analysis. I hope they atleast let Karma on rotation before any of these changes ruins her.

Not that she'd be gutted out of playability, but a lot of the interesting and diverse aspects of her play (and builds as you brought in) would be entirely lost in favor of making her just another mage-turned-support.

I wanna be sucessful as Karma for making the right choices with my abilities and when to use Mantra and which ability to empower with it.

Not just from throwing my utility around.

Maximum Zilean5/15/2015, 8:18:13 PM2 votes

With Karma being my secondary support, I am not looking forward to these changes since I also play her mid and top occasionally. They are flat out removing her potential for a solo lane and forcing her to be a support, which is just bad.

Karma at the moment is completely fine, and doesn't need these changes. They are pretty much making her W useless. I really hope they reconsider, but knowing rito they will not.

And if these changes are because Karma's low pickrate. Think of it this way, the only time Karma has had a high pickrate was when she was OP for a few weeks. Her playstyle isn't something that everyone likes, But a handful of people flat out love. (Like me).

Karma has NEVER had a high pickrate, but is she bad? Not at all.

Linna Excel5/15/2015, 8:02:49 PM2 votes

I don't mind buffing support Karma, but I think they should leave lane karma alone. The more I play her, the more I love her current R-W.

Andy8881015/16/2015, 3:26:03 AM2 votes

i miss having two Mantra

FlaminMoe5/16/2015, 3:59:48 PM1 votes

Unfortunately I'm gonna have to say worse. They totally removed 1 damage source and removed alot of healing from the other. Idk how it's gonna be until I try it myself (hey maybe it will be awesome) but for right now I'm not feeling too good about these changes.

lightdragoon885/16/2015, 5:03:00 PM1 votes

How do you think these changes would be if Karma was able to hold 2 charges again?

ScurryLizard5/16/2015, 8:45:11 PM1 votes

I'd like to have half-decent damage on more than one skill please. The tether does very little damage and it's all but impossible to snare someone with it unless they have zero mobility. These changes take over 1k damage from her kit (and that's going 1v1) and left the stupidly powerful Q alone. I like the broke-ass nuke to be sure, but I don't want it to be Karma's only meaningful source of damage. I'd take a nerf to her Q over the changes they're making right now.

Avious5/15/2015, 9:16:56 PM1 votes

I'm really curious to see if they will revert any of these since everybody hates the changes and it's quite a nerf...

Rinky Dinky5/15/2015, 10:30:51 PM1 votes

Most of this was removed in today's pbe update.

(Read the changes as compared to live)

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/05/515-pbe-update.html#more

Audiomancy5/16/2015, 12:05:36 AM1 votes

If they're putting so much emphasis on Karma's W, they need to make it reliable. Its cast and leash range are both absolutely garbage. Even with Q/E, it's impossible to actually snare anyone with CC or a gapcloser (read: anyone released after 2012). Just something small like increasing the tether range limit by 40 or so every 0.4s would be an immense help.

Jungle Lux God5/16/2015, 12:30:26 AM1 votes

I don't play Karma, but I have a feeling that people will think she's OP after her rework for the same reason people think Morgana is OP.

Karma's RW snare is .5 seconds longer than Morgana's stun, and people that don't play Karma will likely not like the rework because they have to deal with an ability that is more OP than Morgana's "OP" snare.

I'm not trying to say that Karma is going to be OP after her rework because, again, I have limited experience with Karma, but some people might think that because of the snare even though more experienced Karma mains will know better than they do.

Solidair35/16/2015, 1:18:18 PM1 votes

The debuff was removed and the self heal re-added I think. Bonus damage on w removed and the root increase readded. Unless I misunderstood rickless...

Solidair35/16/2015, 1:43:15 PM1 votes

The next iteration is going to put her w's AP ratio at .9 ap.

This is awesome, I hope this is the change that goes through lol

Uracle5/16/2015, 3:46:51 PM1 votes

This analysis is kinda irrelevant now to be honest :/

LifeCyclesTWA5/16/2015, 3:54:16 PM1 votes

I am of the belief that this rework could possibly place Karma as the top support in the game.

The sustain she provides to her ADC in addition to her great poke will make her immediately outclass all of the other poke-supports (Which are in sorry states: See Zilean, Sona, etc...)

Karma also counters the whole all-in / no sustain current bot lanes are running. I am of the belief Riot has tried intentionally to keep poke-supports weak in order to preserve the all-in meta, so I am curious to see how this Karma rework goes... as she is a poker herself.