Boards›Gameplay

(list of Udyr issues) Damage isn't the problem. Udyr has 3 skills and no ult.

Saint Creazil·11/21/2017, 10:38:27 AM·39 votes·4,763 views

Now i know Udyr isnt a fan favorite, but i like him and want to see him be cared about by RIOT, even if a little bit, so here goes!

As it is, Udyr has a LOT of issues, and I tried to put it into list form (for noticability!)

Udyr He feels locked into 3 skills. Namely if you go into Q. If you go into AD tiger stance Udyr your R is basically not here. Not only are you totally screwed out of an ult, but you get NO bonus! Compare this to champs like Nidalee and Jayce who get lots of other bonuses for having no ult, such as switching between forms and getting MMOORREE SSKKIILLSS!!!!!

Udyr He has little skill synergy. None of his stances feel like they interact with each other. Possible solutions include things like more Q damage or W healing from burning (from R) targets.

Udyr His last few skill point feel totally wasted. If you're tiger stance Udyr, you down want any points in R. It's totally and completely WASTED skill points and that should NEVER EVER happen in this game. Either give him a way to use those points (something like more max ranks ala Jayce) or skill synergy (such as above).

Udyr He has odd mixed scalings. His Q scales with AD, W and R with AP, and E with.... nothing. Given the above examples of his damage and synergy issues, how do you expect him to build? On a champ with no ultimate, you'd thing his scalings would at least be cohesive, right? For example, Jayce is almost all AD and Nid is almost all AP.

Udyr He just kinda... runs at you? Kiting is extremely effective right now, through support power (which is a whole 'nother MASSIVE issue) and general skillsets/items. He's not so scary if he can never hit you, which he often can't.

Udyr He's powerless to ranged Especially ADC, which is the most popular, prominent, powerful, and played role in the game. If you can't one shot an ADC, you might as well bow down and lick their feet since they are your absolute gods. They have almost everything on an Udyr. (more damage, more lifesteal through damage, more safey, (TRIST HAHA GOOD LUCK) etc.

My main takeaway from this would be to GIVE HIS Q AND R SOME SYNERGY!!!. Maybe even let him be a champion that every YouTuber or pro player doesn't laugh at. Because as is, Udyr stands as one of the best examples of champions RIOT doesn't care about, along with Volibear, Aatrox, and the like.

And because I care, I'll try to repost this as often as my life permits, until i get a GOOD response from RIOT. Not a "oh man yeah Udyr has some probs but tough luck we gotta sell that BRAND NEW SSSSSSSSKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

i'm demanding a real response addressing these concerns. Take your time, RIOT, because I want it to be good.

41 Comments

Nymzo11/21/2017, 12:14:37 PM31 votes

No, Udyr's issue is his lack of options in battle (not for splitpush).

Pop Quiz: An enemy Udyr is running at you, will he...

A. Run at you and use his stances B. Run at you and use his stances C. Run at you and use his stances D. Run at you and use his stances

Z3Sleeper11/21/2017, 11:56:18 AM11 votes

Either Q needs a rework or R needs a rework. There is no decision making outside of "Max Q or max R".

There's so much room for improvement in every aspect of Udyr's kit.

One thing they definitely need to do though, is implement clear windows of power as they have in every other champ. Udyr is currently a pure statcheck champ.

I could give lists and lists of concepts for stance updates, ult suggestions, etc. There's just so much potential.

MuffledGarbage11/21/2017, 7:33:50 PM7 votes

takes sona passive and changes scaling

splits it apart and sets it in each of Udyr's stances

Sounds good to me.

Legit tho, I'd rather steal sona passive and set it on Udyr because it makes more sense.

Have turtle stance slow, Tiger stance do half of his last stance's ability PLUS small damage, have Bear stance give extra damage to next stance, have Pheonix stance give extra Attack speed or something.

Make each stance need to like switch out.

So like Tiger can buff (Bear or Turtle) which can buff (Pheonix or Bear) which can buff (Tiger or Turtle), ETC.

Azadethe11/21/2017, 1:23:49 PM5 votes

While I generally agree that Udyr is in a bad place comparatively, I'd argue your points are illogical.

  • Turtle Stance is usually not worth maxing. Therefore, most Udyrs still max both Q and R.

  • The current Tenacity/Sterak's meta put Udyr in a much safer place than he's been for years. Getting Unflinching or Legend: Tenacity opens up a lot of windows for Udyr that have been shut since Season 5 and the removal of Zephyrs. If Udyr can beat crowd control, he's much more viable at peeling and running and engaging when needed. It doesn't beat the wall jump beta, but it helps.

-Something I've found over the years is a CDR Udyr is stronger than an Udyr without it. The challenge is figuring out how to do this with Tiger strike. You can get 20% from Trinity, maybe 10% if you go Warrior, but Warrior usually doesn't feel like the best option, which leaves you deciding on 20% in other CDR items. For while, I actually did a crit Udyr with Essence Reaver, which works great, and crit really makes Q shine, but vs a High cc burst team, it's not always advised. Although, Phanton Dancer + Essence is fun as heck, and adds some gap close/tankiness.

-The few times i've seen and communicated with Udyr smurfs, they taught me one thing: The goal is not to chase the adc, but to hide in unwarded bushes and wait for the adc to come to you. If you want to run a 30 kill game, that's how you do it. Hide in good choke points and have superior vision. I haven't tried it yet since I moved away from Udyr, but a Duskblade might be a good choice, since it can eat wards and bonus damage the first time you hit from no vision (two hide in bush features). Also, a super fast movement speed (Trinity, Phantom Dancer, etc) Udyr will perform better on average than one that is just tanky or just bruiser. Bruiser will just melt if he slips up, and Tank is too easy to cc/slow, which is what allows adcs to eat him.

-Udyr is one of the champs who still excels at drake taking solo and early. Use that to your team's advantage.

Kloqdq11/21/2017, 2:42:06 PM4 votes

Honestly I wish he could combo his stances together. Dude has no ultimate and 4 basic abilities, at least make them all combo together. Right now each ability feels completely detached from another and nothing flows togethers. Damage isn't the problem, it's the general flow from ability to ability. Like how smooth a Nid, Elise or Jayce can be when they combo right, that is what Udyr should be. Instead each stance is like ripping yourself out of one another and feels like you are pulling the game to a complete stop.

That. That is what I would like to see Udyr be. The combo stance juggernaut.

E Man forever11/21/2017, 4:44:02 PM2 votes

It’s been this way for 2 seasons now back when AP Udyr got gutted. Which is really sad because it got rid of the whole “swiss army” jungler theme that Udyr had.

FakeGravity11/21/2017, 5:09:15 PM2 votes

i think they should make it a bit like syndra passive, maybe give him the option to evolve or "master" one of his stances changing the way he play, this would leave his other stances with 4 points and one with a mastered status that makes the others work around it? might be too much work?

i can imagine a tank udyr focus on turtle stance that makes bear stance stun for more but the rest do less damage, or a heavy ap burst phoenix, or a tiger stance focus around combos? theres alot of posibilities in a character like udyr that can be explore

Subject 511/21/2017, 7:43:57 PM2 votes

His abilities do actually have synergy:

P: Works with all of his abilities and has great synergy Q: Use this ability to amplify your other abilities for a brief duration W: Use this ability to sustain, works great with P + Q proc E: Use this ability first to stun an opponent, you then have a chance to decide Q / W or / R R: Works with his passive and his Q very well!

The problem was as Nymzo said, read his comment at the top.

quasistellar11/22/2017, 2:48:24 PM1 votes

I agree with you, here. I'm a Udyr main from Season 1, and managed a 68% winrate with him last season--my god it was painful and I got trolled and people still complained even when we won.

I actually like the simple (but hard to master) playstyle. People complain about this all the time, but he's like, ONE CHAMPION out of 150 that is like this. I don't want them to change it.

The biggest thing for me is the Tiger vs Phoenix thing. Because they are both damage, you either choose one or the other--NEVER both. You NEED bear to catch people and stun (or run away!). You NEED turtle to live.

Those levels where the only thing left to rank up is the skill you don't use feel legit TERRIBLE.

Maybe if Phoenix procs could have some kind passive effect added to them, like amplifying damage from other sources (not Udyr) or something. Make it a real teamfight/tank build path option. HMMMMM. . . the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of adding something besides damage to the Phoenix procs.

Kaìju11/21/2017, 2:31:42 PM1 votes

His kit is too binary.

Rebonack11/21/2017, 5:42:12 PM1 votes

Remake his R into an actual Ult.

This doesn't seem like it would be a very difficult call.

Troll Slaiyer11/21/2017, 5:57:53 PM1 votes

i had an udyr one game that would always save his ult for ksing...

EcchiOtakuTM11/21/2017, 7:19:05 PM1 votes

I would like them rework him to be like elise/jayce/nid.

Passive- Monkey's Arrogance, Udyr's abilities cost 40 have their mana cost reduced per level

Q- Tiger/Pheonix stance- same as live but phoenix is granted in Mythic Attunement, Phoenix's activation ignites a dragon of dragon's swirl.

W- Turtle/Manticore stance- Turtle same as live, Manticore stance ignores damage every 4th instance taken(upon activation gain a stack) passively, upon activation launch a poisonous quill in a direction. Manticore's quill turns a dragon poisonous for dragon's swirl.

E- Bear/Dragon stance- Bear same as live, Dragon stance act like varus' ultimate. a winding snake stretches from udyr to nearby units of udyr if it connects udyr can click on them to dash to that victim and root them in place for some time as a passive. (Basically ivern's Q but using Varus' ulti mechanic)

 Upon activation dragon stance sends out 2 dragons in a path if they connect with an enemy or at the end of their journey to a location they swirl in that area, while udyr is in that area it improves his abilities (Tiger, Phoenix, Turtle stance take 2 hits instead of 3, Manticore 3 hits instead of 4, and bear/dragon's unique CD for mawl/coil are reduced, Bear stance grants more movement speed and dragon's stretching to victims time is halved)

R- is no longer pheonix stance but Mythic Attunement.

Mythic Attunement allows different set of techniques. While within mythic mode you deal adaptive damage for abilities and AAs deal 33/66/100% adaptive damage.

While I say "same as live" I mean functionality, a whole lot of damage scalings would have to be changed. Think it could work for udyr massively without hurting his diversity in builds, although one issue is it definitely needs number fixing because if they're just implemented all udyr would lose is 30% AS and 15 MS as is for all that would be gained.

VelvetCrotch11/21/2017, 11:04:11 PM1 votes

There are two parties: the tiger one and the Phoenix one.

For me I never liked the Phoenix stance. And it's obviously on the ultimate button.

So the first idea that came into my mind, which shouldn't be complicated at all, is to change him similar to Karma.

Let his R called "Presence of Mind" or something like that. It could empower his other three stances. Ideas are welcome x)

Edit: or let it still be called Phoenix and just change it to be a passiv which empowers the other stances or he could activate it and give his three stances a dot.

WEANUS PEANUS11/22/2017, 4:50:01 AM1 votes

The saddest thing about Udyr is that Riot slapped a price tag onto his visual update...