The reason why Fizz hasn't been nerfed by Riot yet...

vividcodex8·2/21/2016, 7:02:31 AM·36 votes·10,143 views

I've been noticing that there's about 2 or 3 threads made per week complaining about assassins, with most of them being about Fizz.

This has been happening for a very very long time, and there must be THOUSANDS of threads made about him by now.

One other thing I have noticed is that the threads in question are typically made by people who recently got stomped by one and are posting just for the sake of complaining/wanting to farm upvotes.

Yeah Fizz can be annoying, but just because a champion is annoying doesn't mean they are overpowered. Unfortunately it seems that many people here do not understand this simple fact. Instead people will state a champion's strengths without giving any thought about their weaknesses.

Something else I see people do is make outrageous and downright false claims, such as "Fizz gets to be invulnerable every 2 seconds".

I weep for these people as they don't know that it's impossible for the cooldown on Fizz's E to get any lower than 4.4 seconds, which means he must take the Intelligence mastery and get 40% CDR as well. Not only is this very circumstantial, but it will only happen late-game when he has his items/cdr runes. A late-game assassin is powerful in the late-game? Oh no we can't have that!

Oh and invulnerability != untargetability. He will still take damage from DoTs, and will not break tethers.

So after the plethora of nerf Fizz threads that have showed up for who knows how many months (maybe even years?), you all need to know that Riot has no intention of nerfing Fizz simply because he isn't overpowered. He has clear strengths and weaknesses, and the people who complain about him not having any weaknesses are those who recently got stomped by an assassin, or refuse to learn about the game.

While I fully expect this thread to get bombed with downvotes, it is to be expected for bringing rational thought into the Gameplay board. It will be my punishment for going against the circlejerk.

67 Comments

Hayaishi22/21/2016, 7:51:13 AM16 votes

Clear strengths and weaknesses doesn't mean he doesn't need nerfs.

His Assassination pattern is too reliable, lacks counterplay and most BS thing of all is how he doesn't need his ultimate to even kill you. That alone is nerf worthy

Akali is SO HOT2/21/2016, 8:03:43 AM10 votes

As long as he keeps killing ADC players and collecting all of their salt I'm happy

63536895_DEL2/21/2016, 8:00:19 AM7 votes

going against the circlejerk.

Thats still circlejerking just reversing the rotation.

CoIpsum6/20/2017, 11:53:29 AM4 votes

I just don't find it fun to be two-shot by someone who can literally go untargetable in case you manage to even get close at hitting him because then he just says "Nope" and presses E to go untargetable. I think his damage output is just ludicrously high for someone who can become immune to damage for two whole seconds on a four second cooldown. Fizz isn't broken, his E is absolutely overpowered and needs a definite nerf. Now as for his seastone trident, I think it's the only spell in his kit aside from his ult that has counterplay, and that counterplay is pretty much either A. Don't get hit. B. If you get hit, wait for the debuff to wear off and don't let him hit you again. TDL Fizz absolutely insane with trading simply because of that. I honestly hate when Fizz comes out of a bush with his ult point-blank, knocks me up, and then tricksters directly onto me and then Qs to kill me pretty much instantly. There's no real counterplay except for warding ahead of time, and even then he can just look where you're going and lead the ulti and still do it anyway. He has way too low of a risk for how high of a reward he has. He's not broken, since there are very clear ways to fix him, but he is indeed overpowered to a huge extent, being able to build pretty much anything he wants and it seems to work. All Fizz needs is a item 3100 and he already deletes you if you're a squishy, so he can just build tanky after that and STILL delete you before you have a chance to fight back.

Tormentula2/21/2016, 7:38:32 AM4 votes

It's not fizz's damage output that is broken, it's his kit for the most part. I mean fizz has all the tools to basically say f u during any fight. His E does a ton of damage while being literally invinicible to absolutely anything you use on him (don't you love wasting your ultimate on him because he basically uses a zhonyas whenever he wants?)

You can bait fizz to use his invulnability, but regardless this isn't a for sure counter strat since his dashes still get him out of the danger or even pick up kills that really wouldn't be humanly possible cough lebanc cough and his jump literally just comes back up.

The more I play against fizz the better I'm beginning to understand how to counter him, and he stopped being a ban from me after learning to make him waste his E and dodging his ultimate easier, but his kit regardless makes the laning/fighting experience toxic and annoying.. it's safe to say he's not as cheesy as teemo or shaco, but he's around those terms especially for lower elos where he's basically auto win since nobody knows how to bait and kill him.

I wouldn't say he needs a nerf, there really isn't anything about him nerf demanding, he could use higher cooldowns but that's just to play around his annoyance, rather than balance. He's just one of those "I'm going to troll with new league players because I'm that guy" type champions.

Knoyle2/21/2016, 7:52:59 AM4 votes

Of all the assassins in league I hate Fizz the least. And honestly with the way AD items are shitting on AP items I'm not even mad that he shit's on my team sometimes. Honestly, I get tired of seeing ADfuckyous mid lane.

Stars Shaper2/21/2016, 9:40:42 AM3 votes

While I am one of the players who whines a lot about him I've never used the term Overpowered. I insist though that he has a heavy safety net and that there is nearly no counterplay against him, only counterpicks.

Modern Riot approach to champions (be them new or reworks) is that there should be space for counterplay against X no matter what, easier for champions that counter X, harder for champions countered by X. Fizz doesn't follow this design. Even Zed offers more openings than him (while still being on the over the top side).

Take a look at Yasuo, his equivalent is Wind Wall but that is a skill that can be lured out a lot more easier and with a really low cost even by champions whose kit is composed almost only by projectiles.

CerealBoxOfDoom2/21/2016, 9:00:02 PM3 votes

actually fizz has been hit with nerfs several times. Most just dont notice because they are so bad it makes no difference

Vistha Kai2/21/2016, 12:06:30 PM2 votes

The thing is, he is in the same exact spot he was before the dreadful AD Bruiser Fizz, because they quite literally reverted that mini-rework.

His Playful Trickster has such a huge power budget, it's stupid. It is basically an ultimate-tier damage spell on a 4.4-5 second cooldown on average. Sure, you can Flash/dash/etc. out of it, but he will have it up again in such a short time, it doesn't matter, if you dodge it or not.

Also, don't forget untargetability tied to it. I don't thing there's a single hard CC spell in the game, that has lower cooldown than his "Nope" button.

The only thing that keeps it in check is mana cost and even that's a stretch mid-game+.

AwesomeChad2/21/2016, 9:01:00 AM2 votes

I think one of the biggest factors people don't think about is the meta. Its currently being dominated marksmen so its natural that assassins would be so popular right now. Just because one champion gets played more often now doesn't necessarily mean they're OP/broken. Speaking as an adc main, I make sure i buy a QSS and I'm playing a mobile adc because that maximizes my ability to deal with fizz (diamond elo). In no way is that bad or unhealthy for the game. A good player will always adapt his playstyle and build (and sometimes, champion pick if he has that option) to the enemy.

Troll for Trump2/21/2016, 9:10:59 AM2 votes

LeeSin 'sup

PePsiLemoNN2/21/2016, 10:07:41 AM2 votes

Yep , it's OK for his E to make him untargetable ( can item 3157 to extend the duration ) , deal tons of damage , slow , jump over walls and to be AOE for 130 mana.

KirbyCake2/21/2016, 12:25:39 PM2 votes

And than you look at zed and realize he's fizz with all the safety and damage, but with farming and harassing tools.

Fizz is trash, below 50% win rate and has counterplay in laning phase where you can poke him out.

Zed has no counter play, you can never zone him from minions no matter how far he's behind.

zlumpy6/17/2016, 6:47:06 PM2 votes

My theory on why no big nerfs: Fizz makes big fancy plays, big fancy plays sell the game, big fancy plays are more interesting to a heavy viewer base, riot has a large viewer base for a game franchise.

As much as I hate Fizz I doubt anyone wants to watch a ranked game with team 1: Taric, Ashe, Annie, WW, Insert slow bruiser top with lower mobility here.

Stars Shaper6/20/2017, 11:58:31 AM2 votes

Fizz should get his evasiveness from the players' skill, not having it granted by being untergattable after pressing a single botton.

Lucrativic6/28/2017, 3:17:53 AM1 votes

Fizz yo dawg i heard you liked counterplay we can't have any of that stuff around here, no no no.

RipShesDeadScrub8/30/2016, 5:22:06 AM1 votes

i don't think fizz really has a problem late game, i'm fine with getting destroyed late game by an assassin, however.. i think the fact he's strong in lane all the way to late game is a problem, also it's 2 seconds if you count in zhonya, so troll pole, zhonya, troll pole, also 4 seconds for a medium to small double dash is pretty silly even for late game. All i think fizz needs is higher cd on troll pole. Zed also is irritating, he's completely dominant in lane and once he gets out can just obliterate your carry without your carry having a say anymore since mikaels and qss no longer negate his ult, zeds another champion that is good all game which is my problem with him. Also the fact he's manaless and can't really be shoved out of lane, high mobility, and once he gets level 6 just hits a few q's in lane press r and snowball. While you have champions like talon that have mana costs, get punished early so their early game sucks, once ult and e are used he has no mobility or safety, or champions like syndra or other midlaaners with no mobility at all and mana costs which give them clear weaknesses. Zed has none besides a zhonyas, Fizz at least requires mana and uses a lot however he can snowball out of control way too easily and a good fizz is just about uncounterable.

Foxstep2/21/2016, 2:04:30 PM1 votes

Fizz doesn't even need his ultimate to kill squishies. How is that balanced lol? He has a strong slow, huge aoe damage plus untargetibility on one fucking spell. Just put some power into his w and remove some power of his e. This is all I am asking for.

Fatalitý3/13/2016, 8:17:18 PM1 votes

fizz is not a late game champion at all lol he sucks late game

Cyrush6/17/2016, 6:36:02 PM1 votes

Reviving old thread because Fizz got nerfed hard.