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Fizz W and other pieces of his kit.

Talinis·9/28/2016, 3:26:41 AM·12 votes·1,755 views

Upon reading people's responses and take on Fizz mechanics, I am going to write my own thread and discuss what makes Fizz, Fizz and why the mechanics are how they are and how they are healthy aspects. It seems people do not understand what the abilities do or even that other assassins play styles do exactly what they say Fizz is toxic for.

    **First:  W Dot:**

First, it is not %HP, it is % missing HP which means Fizz has to get you low before it starts doing any significant damage. Second, while % missing HP is more effective against tanks because they have more HP, it is also more ineffective because they have more magic resist.

                                         Let's have some fun with numbers:

Say fizz gets you to 50% HP and his dot is maxed at 6% missing. Say you are a tank and after resistance reduction, reduce his damage by 40%. Say you have 4k hp. At 50% hp, that's 2k missing 2000 x .06 = 120. 120 reduced by 40% means he's doing 72 damage over 3 seconds from his %missing. BIG numbers no?

Now let's look at a squish ,say ADC. You have 2k hp and after resist reduction you negate 20%. Say he can't quite kill you and gets you to 25%. 1500 x .06 = 90 and with resists factored in equals what do you know, 72. 72 damage again over 3 seconds. HUGE numbers.

Now let's say you are a tank and because Fizz is behind and didn't build damage etc. He gets you to 75% and you negate 50%. You only have 3k hp. 750 missing hp x .06 = 45. 45/50% ='s 22.5 damage over 3 seconds.

Now let's use 2 more extreme circumstance.

He got you the tank to 5% hp and you have 5k hp with 60% resistance. 4750 x .06 = 285 x .4 = 114 damage over 3 seconds.

Now let's look at you the squishy ADC. 5% with 2k hp and 10% resistance = 1900 x .06 = 114 x .9 = 102.6 damage over 3 seconds

So now that we've cleared the air on how 100 damage over 3 seconds late game is breaking the game, let's look at the W dot itself and why it isn't toxic. First off, most of the other damage is rolled into a .45 ratio which he has to get by getting AP. Second, it spreads the damage out over time, allowing champions like swain, ADC, tanks etc to heal that damage or to react with shields etc.

If you take away his dot, where do you want all that power to go? More burst? I thought you didn't like getting one shot by Fizz Q. What else does Fizz have besides damage and decent mobility. Do you want to add an entirely new mechanic such as resetting E or perhaps lowering CD on shark to a very low CD to have it like ahri's charm used to be? Or give him a shield or sustain or make his autos range? Do you want more burst on the Q or reset mechanic? Where do you want all that power to go? By removing % missing in the assassin update, they are already going to add back that power somewhere and removing the entire dot is a LOT of power in his kit. And it's a healthy part, spreading out his burst. For those who say that Fizz can go in and poke you down in trades with W dot. And what does Zed do from range? What does Leblanc do from range. What does Kat do with Q. What does kass do with Q? ???? Except they do it from range and wait for it.. poke you down like Fizz dot.

    **Second, the W active**.

There is a lot of discussion here that Fizz should not have sustain damage because he is an assassin. Perhaps so. But then again, it spreads out his damage and slows his kill potential by having you need to auto. He has some of the highest CDs in the game early at 10, 10, 18. Very few champions come close and he has no range to poke you down first. Unless you pump tons of power into his abilities, he is going to rely on autos in fights. And is it so unhealthy? Take a look at Zed, Talon and other AD assassins. Look at how strong their autos get with AD and ghostblade. For those who quote, Fizz did 900 or whatever damage with W. He did multiple autos. And what happens when Zed pops ghostblade, ults and does multiple autos. Exact same thing, death recap showing Zed did 1000 damage from auto attacks. How is it ok for one assassin and not the other?. Fizz again also has no poke to poke you down, forcing him to go into melee and duke it out so having sustain damage makes more sense. Otherwise, he would literally have to instantly fully 100 - 0% the target every time or be worthless.

The reason they are looking at Fizz W is because it promotes him staying in melee for longer durations meaning he needs tank items to be more durable. He also does not have a poke tool within his kit to whittle opponents down before hand. The other assassins that have very weak range poke also have reset mechanics (akali, kha, katarina) or a very low CD escape in kassadin R. Unless they want to do a full rework, they can't remove either dash since they would have to massively buff the one left behind, drastically changing all 3 abilities.

    **Third:  Fizz E**.

My favorite topic. People thinking that Fizz E is like a guaranteed escape forget that champions like Leblanc with an instant port back or a Zed with port back from ultimate exist. Yes, I understand Zed doesn't get to choose, but at the same time, it lasts a while and ports you back long distances depending on the circumstances and in a team fight, it will usually port you back to safety within your team. Fizz E is... wait for it... 400 units distance. A single Ahri ultimate charge reaches farther. Kassadin's ultimate reaches farther. Akali ultimate is double that distance. Leblanc reaches farther etc etc. Second, if Fizz dove on you and didn't kill you and is in the back line. E will not get you out of an ADCs auto attack distance, E will not get you out of range of a ranged mage. E will not get you out of range of most champions gap closers. Fizz E alone is not enough to close the gap on well positioned back liners as it's only 400. Since he is a squish melee without a shield or sustain and has no POKE abilities or RANGE abilties, and average among class gap close distance, they give him the invulnerability and it's not like it prevents tethers, dots or some aoes either.

    **Fourth:  Tank Fizz**.

First off, it's not even tank, it's bruiser. It's no different than hecarim, irelia and the host of other bruisers going triforce maybe botrk and straight tank. Second, it proves 2 things. Tri-force is too powerful of an individual item and should rely more on other items instead of a 1 hit wonder and 2, AP itemization for melees is weaker as they are designed for range in mind. Triforce gives the necessary tools for Fizz to continue his 3 - 6 powerspike and get ahead. AP itemization on the other hand relies on other items to stack to grant significant power and no one AP item provides as much as triforce. This means AP items stunts their snowball ability compared to triforce, and for a champion who relies on snowball or become useless, it makes triforce an attractive option. Because Ekko and Fizz especially rely more on diving in to do damage instead of poking from range before the kill and Fizz particularly has longer cds to start, bruiser just becomes that much more attractive. The more you nerf E's CD, the more viable bruiser Fizz becomes over AP fizz since fizz will lack the tools to gap close and get out of the fight like other assassins can. Also the more garbage you make Fizz's lane phase, the less likely chance of snowball and more worth it to go tank. Remember the old saying. If you are behind as melee, don't build damage as tank items are cheaper since being behind, you won't have the damage to kill the enemy before you die. This is exactly what happens with AP fizz.

Closing

I can edit this to go over his other abilities but if you want to remove abilities/powers from Fizz, then where do you want to add power? Do you want to make him like every other assassin and give him range poke? How about instead of Dot when Fizz uses W, it is like Kayle where it extends his range and he throws trident at 550 distance????? How about sustain like akali??? How about a resetting mechanic on his E like other escape/gap closing tools like Khazix, kat or Akali? Fizz isn't overpowered right now so they can't take any more power without giving something back.

19 Comments

Sire Hippington9/28/2016, 12:14:02 PM7 votes

Agree with most of it, but your wrong on E. E is 400 range for each hope and consists of up to two hops, so a total range of up to 800.

I still find it funny when people complain that it's overloaded and don't understand that haveing nuke, cc, gapclosing, waveclear and escape all in one abillity actually limits it's use. If you use it to close the gap, you don't get the cc as it only slows if you don't use the second jump, the aoe gets alot smaller and thus it often doesn't deal damage, and you put your escape on cd(and use tons of mana). If you use it to escape, you burn alot mana and have your waveclear and gapcloser and nuke on cd, so your opponent has an window to further zone you. If you use it for waveclear, you give an oppening as your escape aswell as your main damage spell are on cd. If you use it duering a trade for the dodge+slow+damage, you can't use it to chase later on nor as escape if the trade doesn't go as well or if more enemies show up. Fizz has to actually think about what he uses his E for, if he uses it wrong he's easily screwed.

Also, one can not stress out enough how much of a deficit it is to have no ranged tool at all and the only aoe for waveclear is burning our escape to place yourself in the middle of the minions. Fizz needs alot all-in potential cause he'd be bullied around in lane and becomeing useless otherwise as he has no tools to farm from distance or savely clear out waves.

Another thing to point out is that the missing-health damage is actually better for assasin fizz than for tank fizz, since assasin fizz burst down his target to a point where the missing health dot actually is noticeable while tank fizz needs much longer till his opponents are low enough for the missing health to do alot. All it does is allowing him to clean up fights well, but for 1v1 or diveing the backline, the missing health doesn't add all that much for tank fizz.

notmebuthim9/28/2016, 6:07:16 AM6 votes

Well put. Bunch of people complaining about fizz with out understanding the champ. "He got %hp damage!! ITS OP!! Nerf him!!" When they play Anivia Brand Leblanc and press 2 buttons to kill someone LOL.

Penns9/28/2016, 3:44:55 PM3 votes

I dunno, I think removing/reworking his W dot and adding a new mechanic to his passive (or just replacing it) could be cool.

TONY IS SO HOT9/28/2016, 10:07:58 AM1 votes

tl:dr please

Ok sure but why9/28/2016, 3:55:23 AM1 votes

range poke = shark

Ralanr9/28/2016, 12:37:50 PM1 votes

Is Fizz burst or sustained damage?

NineTailedMystic9/28/2016, 2:13:42 PM1 votes

There is a lot of discussion here that Fizz should not have sustain damage because he is an assassin. Perhaps so. But then again, it spreads out his damage and slows his kill potential by having you need to auto

Maybe if his Q didn't apply his W damage, Lich Bane damage, and whatever other on hits he may build

Take a look at Zed, Talon and other AD assassins. Look at how strong their autos get with AD and ghostblade.

Why do Assassins have to be the same? Just because Fizz is an Assassin doesn't mean he needs strong autos.

Fizz isn't OP or anything, but he's hated for a reason. Also he didn't need the damage amp Ahri lost in 5.2. He still one shot people without it.

The Deckowner9/28/2016, 2:17:58 PM1 votes

His W is simply not a good design, it almost never do the same damage every time.

XeroKimo9/28/2016, 11:24:54 AM1 votes

Between your first 2 examples with the tank @4k hp and adc @2k hp are not really good examples

For starters you made it that the adc has 25% hp left while the tank had 50% hp left, you're comparing technically 2 different numbers to get equal dmg, if you wanted it to be more fair

The tank is @1000 hp now, therefore 3000 * 0.06 = 180 * 0.6 =108 While your adc who's also @25% hp left from 2000 is deallt 1500* 0.06 = 90 * 0.8 = 72

The relative dmg in the DoT between the tank and a squishy should be the same, let's take the top example and ignore MR and you're at 180 when the tank was at 1000 hp left, while the adc is getting dealt 90 dmg at 500 hp left and both of those were at 25% remaining hp

Edit: Read it thoroughly now, your second example makes more sense, but like I said the relative dmg is the same, + technicallly his DoT is the excution skill of his kit, like zed's passive or ekko w passive, so of course it'll deal a ton of dmg when they are at like 5% hp left

hhaavviikk9/28/2016, 6:20:09 AM1 votes

if you include the base damage from the W it deals 156 damage over 3 seconds in the extreme case, 188 if they got chums the water debuff on them.

either way though they can take away power without giving anything in return, they have done so before, not saying they should but saying ''what else would he get in return'' isn't a valid argument when he doesn't have to get anything in return.

Dracocrash9/28/2016, 8:20:32 AM1 votes

Ok first of all you have miss represented fizz's cooldowns You claimed 10/10/18. This may be true... FOR A LEVEL 3 FIZZ.

Lets consider the fact that his W has a 6s uptime and his cd scales with ability level.

6/4/10.

Now lets remember how easily fizz can itemize for 40% cdr. (abyssal, lich bane, zhonya, runes/ionian boots)

3.6/0/6

Not saying hes op..( he seems balanced according to me now) But dont mis-represent his cooldown if you want to make a fair argument.