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Vayne is ridiculous

35285419DEL1·8/9/2015, 12:14:44 AM·24 votes·2,397 views

Practically cliche' topic at this point I bet, but Vayne's kit is so difficult to play against and counter I have no idea how riot even thought this was balanced.

Problem 1: Her Q (Tumble) is basically a "screw you" to anyone with a skillshot. Most of the time the only way to beat an adc is with hard engage and crowd control, but most CC is skillshot oriented (Blitz Q, Thresh Q/E, Naut Q, pretty much anyone that isn't taric), its cooldown is extremely short at later ranks without even building CDR, and the attack damage boost is gigantic when compared with the mana cost.

Problem 2: Her W (Silver Bolts) is impossible to counter against. To counter most Marksmen, you build armor; but Vayne has true damage. So you build health to counter said true damage and then it makes it even more brutal because it has a max health scale. The only counter to true damage is health, but her w basically covers itself from countering.

Problem 3: Her E (Condemn) may be a bit awkward to get the stun right sometimes, but the problem is that outside of lane it's pretty easy to stun people, and even when you don't stun people you can use it to push engages and ganks back, basically giving vayne a free ticket home. But when she does land the stun, it lasts so long. Combining the stun and her W with even a little attack speed basically says "you're dead if I hit you with my E"

Problem 4: Her ult is such a ridiculous steroid, 100 mana is a decent cost, but the amount of stats she gets from just pressing a button and spending some mana is angering. She gets almost a fully stacked item 3141 worth of attack damage, invisibility on her "screw you" and her passive gives her 90 movespeed... considering that her Q and normal passive already make her difficult to escape from without a flash dash or speed boost (with still a slim chance of getting away) this just makes it so much more frustrating to play against.

Before you comment about how she's "balanced" take a close look at a vayne in game...(Also I know I pretty much ranted about her whole kit but the whole damn thing is so powerful)

32 Comments

AstroFerrari 8/9/2015, 12:49:55 AM3 votes

I'm not a Vayne main by any means, but let me play devil's advocate for a minute. Vayne is balanced in the sense that her early game is lacking, she has very low range (maybe even the lowest) among ADCs, and really needs to snowball to be of any use in her roll. She can't do ok, she can't do alright, she NEEDS to be strongly ahead of her opponents to be an effective part of the team. With a lot of people play CC/Tanky champions in the current meta, Vayne's true damage along with attack speed is all she has going for her, along with the need to build attack speed. She has no reliable escape, and no way to save herself from point-and-click CC other than the stealth she gains from her ult and that isn't always available. She's outranged and outdamaged in her early game by Jinx, Caitlyn, and Tristana. Not to mention Cait and Trist have useful escapes. Jinx and Cait also have traps to help them get away, plus Jinx's passive. All Vayne can do is flash, and if that doesnt work out she's dead. Take it from me, even though Vayne has her strengths, her weaknesses can make her useless before he strengths can be utilized.

AdanChristo8/9/2015, 7:52:54 AM2 votes

lol this is a disgrace of a post, how you got 6 upvotes shows the decline of the world. Vayne has ALWAYS been like this and you decide NOW to call her OP? get out of bronze first and then talk

brad8/9/2015, 9:09:59 AM1 votes

{quoted}

(Also I know I pretty much ranted about her whole kit but the whole damn thing is so powerful)

is it

Unironic SJW8/9/2015, 7:05:08 PM1 votes

Vayne main with about 400 games on her here. I'm not high elo or anything but I think I understand the champion.

First off, Vayne is too strong right now, Vayne should NEVER be a 50% win rate champion especially with her pick rate. However, it's largely a product of the meta.

First off, ADC nerfs. Vayne couldn't, and probably still can't, lane against Graves. Vayne can't even with at her level 6 and BORK powerspikes because Graves just has too much burst unless your team camps him. Graves gets nerfed out of meta. She has trouble laning against Corki (she needs to outplay Corki hard to win really). She has trouble laning against Lucian (she can win at level 6 but it's hard). All those ADCs have been nerfed.

Second, poke supports are weak. Sona + Cait, Graves + Annie, Vayne cannot win those lanes, period, without a huge skill difference (at least Gold versus Bronze or Plat vs Silver) or without jungler camp and possibly something like Soraka/Janna/Nami designed to protect weak early laners from feeding. Though I think one of the worst matchups for Vayne that isn't being played right now is Karma. Karma + lane bully ADC can pretty much zone Vayne off the creep wave if they hit their shit. But what's in meta right now? Leona (a good Vayne will snowball off Leona), Naut (see Leona), Alistar (Alistar literally can do nothing to a good Vayne except get chunked by W), stuff like that. Furthermore, Vayne likes playing WITH those CC tanks, and doesn't get much offensively out of poke supports other than zoning to allow her to CS freely. Ali headbutt > pulverize combo is a free condemn wall slam and kill for Vayne. If Leona engages the enemy ADC in a bush, same deal, condemn, free kill.

Finally players tend to play the matchup wrong. For example, Cait can beat Vayne if neither player makes a mistake but if Vayne makes a mistake, she condems Cait away and tumbles away, while if Cait makes a mistake, Cait feeds Vayne a kill. Players will play super passive against Vayne even if they're stronger because they don't know how weak she is levels 3-6, and in most cases until she gets BORK.

anyway, I don't know what needs to be done because Vayne is too easy to win with right now in terms of laning and snowballing (but for god sake don't complain about her late game, she's a hypercarry, that's what hypercarries do) but i think if the meta shifts back to lane bully ADCs and utility adcs with poke, then she'll settle down to a more natural level.

also i'd like to add that vayne cannot lane against annie and if i'm playing vayne i nearly always ban annie unless i'm playing normals and not giving a shit

O Fallen Scholar8/9/2015, 7:13:50 PM1 votes

Vayne's problem is her E. Too safe because of it. Other than that she is fine.

Unironic SJW8/9/2015, 7:16:36 PM1 votes

Indeed, but a lot of that is the meta, not her. She was one of the lowest win rate champs in the game about 3-4 months ago and she's gotten a bunch of minor QOL buffs but nothing really major. Her strength right now is due to nerfs on other ADCs + meta changes that favor her.

YossarianSensei8/10/2015, 6:33:02 AM1 votes

I still don't understand the Vayne QQ. Her entire kit is dedicated to killing champions 1 target at a time, obviously in small skirmishes she's going to have a massive advantages

But there are more things a champ can offer other than single target DPS. Vayne would be utter trash tier if she couldn't take on ADCs like Varus/Ashe/Lucian in a 1v1, and even so it's not easy for Vayne to come out on top