Nerfing A 45% winrate champion

Rainfall·4/12/2018, 1:50:52 AM·13 votes·3,962 views

Ryze is currently at a 45% winrate and sitting at a decent playrate like he has always been and again on the pbe there are nerfs planned for him probably a start for more nerfs in the future if we have learned anything from experience,obviously those nerfs are not for us but for pro players less than 0.1%of the community. So i ask riot,when the community was asking "why are you buffing the 48% winrate yasuo " you answered " so many players play yasuo they should be guaranteed a decent minimum winrate" so where is this now? where was the balance team when ardent was turning lcs into an international embarrassment? There are a lot of things you can do to make lcs better, nerfing already suboptimal picks will just drive more players away from the lcs and the game. ryze is not a support or an assasin so i know this post will never actually reach anything but its something that needs to be said.

28 Comments

Bern4/12/2018, 1:55:36 AM10 votes

Ryze's winrate on people good at ryze is still extremely good. Like, disgustingly good. His win deltas between skilled and unskilled play are insane.

He has a high learning curve and more effectiveness the more coordinated your team is (and the more you know how to tell your team to use your ult, in the case of solo queue). He's a problem just because of that learning curve and effectiveness curve. Standard line is that balancing him to be good at low elos with his current kit would bust him, and it's the standard line because it's a fact.

Danjeng4/12/2018, 1:55:46 AM7 votes

Every spring Ryze will be nerfed consecutively despite having a ~45% winrate. It's inevitable, and it's pointless arguing against it. He's still pick/ban and will remain so until the final nerf hit so hard he'll no longer be a contested pick. Then in the summer, Ryze will receive changes that will make him somewhat playable, leading him to be picked by pros once more, so continues the cycle.

ModWulf Helhammer4/12/2018, 2:19:19 AM3 votes

They've said that for champions that are game warping in pro play (So your Azir's and Ryze's and the like), they will hold less consideration for lower skill levels.

As for Censor: the patch that World's get's played on gets locked in almost a month in advance. There were nerfs for Ardent almost immediately after the patch lock in.

DOUBLE TAPPED E4/12/2018, 1:52:12 AM3 votes

He's 45% winrate because he's pretty tough to do well with, and people play him without knowing how, then feed.

Craft Zeppelin4/12/2018, 6:21:10 AM2 votes

Rework Ryze or remove him. That is the only two options that are logic. He is literally a detriment to the meta.

FrostQueensPlane4/12/2018, 6:47:57 AM2 votes

Ryze's winrate isn't indicative of even his higher elo effectiveness let alone competitive.

Lord of Math4/12/2018, 1:53:12 AM1 votes

A lot of his problem lies in the fact that he is a late game champion. However, making it to late game with people who want to give up due to a seven kill lead when you have late game champs is hard. People give up far too early, and when late game comes around, Ryze is the only one trying.

Rico Nasty4/12/2018, 9:13:40 PM1 votes

Honestly they would need to absolutely overthrow everything about Ryze in order to make him healthy for this game. He's just going to keep going in the same direction for eternity.

SB Arneeman4/12/2018, 7:48:48 AM1 votes

As an Azir+Viktor player, I hate how much they balance for pro play over soloq. They don't change what makes the champions unbalanced in the first place, but just keep reducing their numbers until they're not good in pro play anymore, which makes them trash in soloq. It feels bad improving on a champion over time, just to see it nerfed again and again so the improvement means nothing for your winrate.

GreenHydralisk4/12/2018, 1:06:12 PM1 votes

he is good in pro play

Malix Farwin4/12/2018, 1:30:22 PM1 votes

Riot does not seem to know what they want to do Ryze. He has been reworked multiple times and every single version of him has had problems. I would say they may need to rework him yet again to make sure they can balance him in a way that the gap between the top and bottom is not so wide(or soloqueue and lcs aren't to wide) but i feel like they will somehow screw it up again.

warpenguin5554/12/2018, 4:50:11 AM1 votes

We've had long running difficulties with some champs who perform dramatically better for organized teams (pro teams, premade 5s, Clash soon etc) than they do for matchmade solo queue teams. Azir, Kalista and Ryze are the strongest example of that, where their performance for the average player trying them will often look pretty weak if they're in a balanced state for organized teams. One of our goals with champion balance is to ensure they're good choices in a wide range of contexts, so that's not ideal. At the same time though they're still situationally very strong even in solo queue sometimes.

We've also put a lot of time into trying to close that gap on those three over the years, with mixed success, given some parts of those champions core identities are tied to the very elements that give them that variance in power by context. For a while, quite possibly a long while at that, we're going to be prioritizing most other champion work over closing that gap as a result. That means Azir, Kalista and Ryze will be balanced for their strong cases (organized play primarily), even if that leaves them quite weak in other contexts (exception: a bit of Ryze work that's already underway and might or might not ship). It's not that we think that's the perfect solution, but that we think the time's better spent on other champions who haven't got that same degree of attention over the years and would benefit a lot from it.

If you're someone who likes those champs, but feels you shouldn't play them in solo queue, our apologies. I expect that feels pretty rough and that even if these champs are strong in the right circumstances that doesn't help if those circumstances aren't ones you personally experience. Completely agree there are downsides to this approach, we do think it's the best available trade off for LoL players as a whole though.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/EEHXQ3kv-quick-gameplay-thoughts-march-23