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Senna can't have it all.

Wild Geese·2/12/2020, 2:27:42 AM·64 votes·16,517 views

You're not gonna kill her from ADC even if those mistwalkers drop 0% of the time for minions you don't farm. 100% pro-play presence, viable in 4 lanes in pubs. Looking at several dumb things in her kit:

  1. 1-16% Current Health damage on second hit (remember, Q counts as an autoattack). I see no reason Senna should get this tank shredding for free.
  2. Second best mana regen in the game. Basically can spam spells all lane and especially all game...
  3. Q heals Senna, and applies all on-hit effects. The self-heal is particularly a problem because she supports herself, but this adding upon the other thing...
  4. Autoattacks grant 10-20% movespeed from the enemy hit. This is the same factor that busts champions like Viktor, Soraka, Sona etc. You got a damage which is a heal which is a speedboost on a ranged character.
  5. Her Ultimate having 20,000 speed for a 2400 global delivery of a shield. There's no missing this unless your ally tried really hard to dodge it, would at least have to burn a flash.
  6. Infinite scaling range with 600 base autoattack and gets Lifesteal for having too many stacks.

Not saying it should all be removed, but maybe some of this is a bit much...

EDIT: 7. Her root having the same Range and speed as Lux and Morgana while having an AOE effect for a character who already has excellent zoning may be a bit much...

104 Comments

Krinu2/12/2020, 3:23:14 AM38 votes

Split her build paths.

Let her heals scale with AP and her damage scale with AD.

She can still be good at both roles, but she can't be good at both roles at the same time.

Cis7v02/12/2020, 2:44:10 AM31 votes

You forgot that stupid CC of hers. That range. That hit box. The 11 second CD before items. It's basically a more frequent, slightly less oppressive, zoe bubble. Don't know why people don't complain about it more.

She could function well with just a Q and a W. That's a problem. Also Way to many free stats.

Agent Corgi2/12/2020, 7:06:07 AM21 votes

Meanwhile, Aphelios is just sitting there like: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/471/227/dd0.png

iiGazeii2/12/2020, 3:14:58 AM14 votes

I would like to see her self-heal get cut, but only for ADC Senna. A self-heal is normal for an enchanter, but inappropriate on an ADC.

It would be quite simple. Reduce (or remove) the AD scaling on her Q healing, and add a Mist scaling, like her ult. That way, support Senna has a potent heal, but ADC Senna only gets a smidge. She wouldn't have a mountain of built-in self-sustain simply for having something in range to click on. She'd need the extra mist stacks from not-CSing to have sustain.

Żügżwäng2/12/2020, 5:15:07 AM13 votes

Poor design from the start. Really just way too much going on with her. She doesn't feel like she has a niche. Her W and E make sense. Her soul collecting is cool. I like those scaling collect passives. Her ult never needed to be global. At least not damage. Her Q is way too easy to use.

I'm not asking for her to get nerfed. Im saying she has too much happening. And it's not like she's hard to play. In a teamfight you just Q the crowd and you'll heal and damage. No thinking needed. Ult same thing

Gath Immortal2/12/2020, 2:44:57 AM12 votes

please gut her.

Wild Geese2/12/2020, 7:14:16 AM10 votes

I'll just add I'm not disrespecting her design, I think August is one of the very the best champion designers League has; And I'm sure he can justify every single part of her kit. I know she has clear weaknesses, "has it all" refers to the insanely diverse functions she has as a character.

I'm a game designer myself and I'm in awe of some things, Senna, Jhin, Jinx, Ekko, Gnar... They are all really amazing. There's a lot of other champions I like but he never has made anything I consider "bad" as a design in the pure sense. Champions who are fun and unique feeling to play over many games are good designs.

Although just like Ekko, Senna has parts of her kit that are just too much. Ekko needed several elements removed from his kit from his release version, he needed adjustments to become more balanced (well until the balance team buffed him last year but that's a whole other matter which is easily resolved with some nerfs).

roflcopterssssss2/12/2020, 11:26:47 AM5 votes

Also wraiths giving 3 gold is dumb, she already gets given a ton of stats for free why should she get another 3 free gold whenever she collects a wraith...

UlyssesISR2/12/2020, 10:36:51 PM4 votes

CertainlyT designed, so yes she can.

Is it fair? No.

Is that the way it is? Yes.

Śhunpo2/12/2020, 5:23:42 AM3 votes

Yeah I still don't see why she has a 600 base auto attack range.

Also, the hitbox on her W is sooooo large that even Morgana is upset with this.

Saezio2/12/2020, 9:46:25 AM3 votes

Make her passive DE-scale with minion kills.

It's supposedly there because she is a support champion that has no access to CSing.

She should be losing that if she has income to build the stats.

Also, ehmmm.... Why does her Q need to be castable on turrets? Like, how does it fit thematically?

Hypochondria92/12/2020, 3:49:46 PM3 votes

Her damage seems pretty low for an ADC, and ok for a support. I see pro teams play her ADC but I don't get it, she doesn't seem to do a whole lot.

WE Fz2f2/12/2020, 10:14:55 PM2 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

MrEnds2/14/2020, 2:24:29 PM2 votes

she does have a lot of trade-offs to compensate for her kit, firstly she is extremely easy to kill, is never safe from an assassin, has less than 1800 base hp at lvl 18, gets caught out during her auto attack animation because it is intentionally delayed, deals ONLY 130% damage with crit compared to the normal 200%, she doesn't gain attack damage when leveling up, senna's ult cast time (1.3 seconds) is longer than Lux's ult cast time (1 second) and Lux's ultimate can be side stepped if reacted to by anyone paying attention so its even easier to react to senna's ult, she basically has a worse version of Jhins passive where doesn't gain nearly any attack speed if she builds it and unlike Jhin she doesn't gain attack damage or MS on crits to compensate for the attack speed on the item, instead she only gains 20% of her total attack speed and that's it, unless you're building like six 50% attack speed items in ARURF (which i recommend trying because it is really fun to do and funny to watch and surprisingly effective)

Edit: she doesn't have the second best mana regen in the game she has the 78th highest mana regen in the game :/ heres proof: https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_champions/Statistics_at_level_18

Nea1042/12/2020, 2:44:33 PM2 votes

I remember when some smart people said "it's not gonna be a Pyke 2.0 issue".

Where are you now guys? Everything ok? :C

JackMcCarry2/12/2020, 3:54:21 PM2 votes

Her passive is waaay too overloaded. Why does she get Crit, Life steal, AD and range for simply attacking champions? she's an adc, that's literally all she does. So of course her build will be w/e she wants, she can build lethality, Armor pen, Mana and suffer 0 late game damage because by then she will not only have tons of range, but also tons of AD, full crit and life steal all from her passive.

Gutt her passive, it should only grant AD and range, if you pick Senna support, you shouldnt be critting people while also healing yourself, if you pick her adc, you should invest GOLD into the most important stats adc build for .

NelsieLisnen2/12/2020, 4:54:37 PM2 votes

B-B-B-B-But, $hE cAnT 8uilD AtTaKK SHPEEEEEED. Anyway, joking aside, I dig her design, but as you mentioned, her kit is too synergistic with itself. I think her building AD should incur a harsher penalty on her healing, as in it should scale less with AD and more with AP. It's kinda silly rn

Saezio2/12/2020, 9:42:31 AM2 votes

You're not gonna kill her from ADC even if those mistwalkers drop 0% of the time for minions you don't farm.

They are nerfing it for minions you DO farm. Not the ones you don't. They are nerfing her ADC not her support.

Hordes662/12/2020, 11:51:42 PM2 votes

Yeah, fuxk this dev team.

Baby Ghoul2/13/2020, 1:34:22 AM2 votes

While I agree that Senna does have far too much going on and needs to be nerfed, you adding in that part about Sona and Soraka just isn't true.

The reason Sona and Soraka top was busted was because melee champions top lane have nothing to defend themselves against early ranged harass.

In bot lane, champions do. ADCs are ranged. Actually the most popular ADCs have the highest range like Senna and Caitlynn. We're in the engage support meta where 1 Nautilus Q means you're dead or wasting flash. If people aren't playing engage supports, then they're playing mage supports that can do a ton of damage with their spam poke like Zyra. Sona is going to be very vulnerable and Soraka's missile time on her Q is so long that it's one of the easiest abilities to dodge bot lane.

Furthermore, top lane has the least impact on the game, so having a champion that provides high utility is ideal top lane.

Sona and Soraka's on hit-effects aren't "busted" as you're putting it because of the context of their lane and limitations of their kits. Top lane is busted and Riot needs to actually fix top lane and the ranged champions that have been accumulating top for years now.

The fact that enchanters are even viable top lane signals that there's an issue.

Morbys2/12/2020, 4:55:00 PM1 votes

Her auto attacks dont grant movement speed, her Q does. And its very short lived. And if her mana regen is so high, why do ppl go manamune?