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Discussion post about a specific champions lack of balance, you have been warned.

Pandara·12/13/2019, 9:18:55 AM·1 votes·2,159 views

Alright so I'm sure that this will just be another comment lost in the boards and ignored by those its really intended for but in the off chance that it can make any kind of real change I'd like to write it. For a while now there has been an increasing number of "OP" champs plaguing the rift and it seems the number of these champs has been increasing a lot, so much so that people are now asking for 20 bans and pleading with riot to nerf champions in a meaningful way, not to make them F tier champs but to balance them. I have heard many times "they are balanced for pro-play" my response to this is the usual one offered up by disgruntled players "99% of the players of this game are not pro-players, so why balance around less than 1% of players" along with this I would like to add that is is a completely viable option to either make a separate patch for pro players to play on or just revert the changes after the big events are over. So after all of this I'd like to say that I've been a long time player of league and have for the most part enjoyed the good times and all the craziness over the years but with the last season and preseason now it is starting to really ware me down, I don't feel the excitement to play anymore, I honestly worry that it will end up just leaving me in a crappy mood before bed.

I would love to address every champion but honestly I don't have the time to do that and also I don't necessarily agree with every champ that people to believe is "OP". The main champion I want to talk about is Akali, this is a champion that has received nerfs over the past season but none seemed to really stop her from running over a lane opponent and if losing to just wait for the gold and then power spike at gunblade and be ready to carry. I believe her kit is quite overloaded having 4 dashes, 35-50% base move speed during fights (it is extremely easy to keep passive's move speed until you have killed someone), a slow, invisibility that also grants 20-40% move speed (on top of the passive), and a very strong execute. The amount of mobility alone is hard to understand, having 5 dashes if you include flash and constant move speed buffs during fights, along with large amounts of aoe damage as well as aoe execute. Mobility alone wouldn't make the champion broken though, due to her extremely high burst damage both in the early game with Q, auto, Q (and more if you'd like with shroud and the passive restoring energy as well). Something also not noted yet is her ability to just escape from nearly any situation if you cant pin her down with some form of long lasting hard cc and even then she has many options to leave.

This champion has become extremely unfun to play against and is honestly a bad experience all around. I've asked many people that I play with what they think when she gets picked and I'm often told that they think we lose if she gets a 2 kill lead, or that whoever she is laning against is automatically at a disadvantage, I've also had randoms dodge queues because they said they weren't gonna play against her.

The champion receives nerfs that don't properly address the issues she has, like nerfing her ult cd, or slightly nerfing her wave clear (which I checked really isnt that noticeable), or taking off the hit-box from her Q that hits behind her (which in all honesty sounds like a bug to me so I don't know why it was intentionally left there until now). There have been some nerfs to her in the past that were good obviously like the removal of tower shroud, and the removal of the heal on her Q, but these haven't balanced her.

Some suggestions for balancing, remove her move speed buff after leaving the passive circle; remove the move speed buff on her passive altogether; put the passive on cooldown for a few seconds after proccing it so that she cant continue to trade you out of the lane; remove the first dash of her R (only one dash on ult) reduce the ult scaling of her execute at max from 255/450/645 (90% of AP) to 170/300/430 (60% of AP) (this is still double the normal damage of the ability). Now I am NOT saying that all of these should be done, I'm very against that because it would gut her, I'm saying maybe 1 or two of these would be great a good way to balance her kit so that she can't overrun other champions that aren't loaded with loads of burst damage, dashes, move speed buffs, and topped off with an execute.

If you've made it this far thanks for taking the time to read, I'm sure there are some who disagree with me, if you are one of those people feel free to comment below I'd love to discuss.

-----TLDR----- I believe that the game has taken a poor turn from the game I grew up on and loved, I feel the balance over the last season+ has really put a bad spin on the game and that something should be done to fix it. I do believe there are many things that need to be addressed but I am mainly discussing Akali in this post. Her kit is quite overloaded with high burst damage, extreme mobility (both dashes and large move speed buffs), as well as an aoe execute that can deal up to triple its normal damage. I discuss some ideas for balancing her in the second to last paragraph. If you would like to discuss please be respectful and I will do the same for you and feel free to comment on the post. Thanks for reading.

19 Comments

Posui Gart12/13/2019, 12:19:55 PM2 votes

I have heard many times "they are balanced for pro-play" my response to this is the usual one offered up by disgruntled players "99% of the players of this game are not pro-players, so why balance around less than 1% of players"

99% of humans don't even play league, so why ever bother balancing whatever? That 1% are the players that actually know how to play, and other players should aim to be as good as them(except those that just play for fun with friends and are ok with that, but those players have no say in balance).

I would like to add that is is a completely viable option to either make a separate patch for pro players to play on or just revert the changes after the big events are over

This will just make a pro-scene even more separate from the playerbase than it is now. Instead, there should be more attention to actual 5v5, with things like Clash and team ranked queues. With this, people will actually play the same game as pros do and it will be much easier to balance for both groups at once.

I don't feel the excitement to play anymore

That's just your problem. At some point of the game you can no longer solocarry games or do some borderline-troll fun shit while still winning, and instead rely on teammates to do their job too. That is not as fun or exciting.

The champion receives nerfs that don't properly address the issues she has

The thing is, by removing her "issues" she will turn into a generic assassin. Her Q and passive are supposed to make her a "damage-over-time" assassin, shroud is there to survive her cds, and R is her "if I am behind, I can still kill that guy if I use it right".

What I think should be done with her is removing most "fail-proof" mechanics. Her passive should be centered at her enemy, not at the point that enemy stood when she hit. It would allow an interesting counterplay of following Akali so that she can't leave passive range and use her empovered AA (unless she uses one of her dashes, but that's ok) Her Q should deal reduced damage to minions, not increased. Something like 50% less damage to minions but 50% energy refund if she didn't hit a champion with it Gunblade should not heal off non-champions. No item should, to be honest. If you need sustain, go get a healing support, hp regen item or use a potion. Her W should not move(now it slightly moves in cast direction) and should not give her MS. She is already invisible and can't be targeted, so the only thing that works against her is skillshots, and she already has enough tools to dodge them.

Darkdemon65312/13/2019, 11:13:23 AM1 votes

{quoted}

my response to this is the usual one offered up by disgruntled players "99% of the players of this game are not pro-players, so why balance around less than 1% of players"

You should be vehemently supporting the idea of significant Akali buffs.

Jarring12/13/2019, 11:59:28 AM1 votes

Firstly, they aren't balanced for pro play. They do balance AROUND pro play...like...BECAUSE of pro play...but they don't balance champions in order for professional players to compete. That's not how the meta works. The meta exists DESPITE the developers balancing the game.

But yeah, the main antagonist of balance in this game is high mobility. The more mobility in the game, the harder it is to balance. Champions like Kassadin, Azir, Akali, Irelia, Kai'sa, and Kallista oh my god Kallista would be a fucking nightmare I can imagine I know because I played Heroes of Newerth. I know how hard it would be to balance Kallista just because I played HoN. Every hero in HoN basically plays as if it had Kallista's passive. I mean, there is no turn speed in that game, and if you don't cancel the backswing of every attack to move you're a noob that deserves to get owned. Of course Kallista is the most shit tier adc in the game if she's the only one with a passive like that when playing the game as a profession exists.

I don't think the answer is in making separate patches for players to play on...if they did that professional play would inevitably stagnate and it would die.

The answer is in redesigning the entire map. I've asked for this on the forums in the past, and I see they've put a little bit of work in, but this isn't what I meant. Yeah the alcoves are kind of in the right direction...but the dragons, yeah no.

It needs to be bigger for these huge champions. They need more space. Their gigantic schlongs don't really seem to fit.

Like, right out the gate the map has some visible flaws. Huge portions of it is just an empty zone that only exist to block off the champion. Shit, the tier 1 red side bottom turret has a fucking waterfall next to it..like...I guess for aesthetic? wtf is that shit. and SPEAKING of tier 1 side lane turrets wtf is their positioning? Why are they hugging the outer edge of the map? Like wtf kind of attack radius is that shit? Do they intentionally sit off to the side because it's scared? All 4 of them have been hugging the WRONG side of the lane for god knows how long. Who told them to do that, and what was their reasoning? The turret's radius is a joke to begin with, the fact it's on the wrong side of the lane just adds insult to injury.

Anyways, there are tons of design changes for the map that could definitely be for the better. and tbh, I think a lot of ideas would or could be unanimous in approval. Like, there is no reason for the map to be the way it is. You can change it anyway you like. Yes, the original 3 lane dota map is generally the best GUIDELINE for a moba map...but it doesn't have to be pretty much always the same exact idea as if each and every path is written in stone. There are 3 lanes a river and a jungle between them. That's it. DotA changes their map all the time. Shit, they just came out with a fucking HUGEEEE change to their entire game...and this isn't the first time. The game has evolved many times since I played it. Shit, they even increased the level cap and added neutral items that drop from jungle creeps, gave personal couriers to the entire team and allowed them to use items again like they could in the original game, which is absolutely insane. Like, the game is too balanced, "we need to just give them more items that get bigger the longer the game goes on cuz the better players need to win", like it's a flex the game is too balanced they have to change the game so that it CAN end lol...not that it won't.

Riot just wants their game to end faster I guess because it's boring or something? I have no fucking clue. From my experience games get more intense the longer they go on. I mean it can become a struggle because of the difficulty of actually ending a game, but that's mainly due to a variance in value of certain players respawn timers. Not that the carry is more valuable than the support(or the other way around in a lot of cases). It's just a fact that players can push lanes and thus turrets around respawn timers. It's how the game can end at all in the first place. DotA respawn timers get over 2 minutes long for christs sake, yet their games average out lasting at least twice as long. Fucking crazy if you ask me. I LOVE LoL and all, it's a LOT of fun to play, but if you just compare the numbers between both games, it's just fucking embarrassing.

Z3SIeeper12/13/2019, 2:03:53 PM1 votes

Looooooong. TL;DR ain't even a TL;DR.

Jarring12/14/2019, 12:26:02 AM1 votes

edit: ok season 5 they completely reworked the map. We're almost there.. SEASON 10 GUYS. NEXT SEASON WE GET A NEW MAP.

Jarring12/14/2019, 12:52:37 AM1 votes

I mean shit. Furion can teleport anywhere on the map with a low af cooldown on a REGULAR ABILITY. Like, not only is it infinitely better than TF ult, but he can use it at fucking level 1.

Storm Spirit can Zip around the entire map at mach fucking 1 as he fucking pleases as long as he has the mana to do so. Imagine that shit?

yeah, it's balanced. DotA 2 is super balanced. Like, compared to LoL, it's not even a question. You must be joking. Ask anyone who plays DotA 2. They'll all tell you the same thing. It's balanced above all else. Rarely do people complain about certain things. Yeah certain roles hate facing certain heroes...like omg trying to fight a storm is annoying at times. I always liked picking Silencer into him for a couple reasons: easy counter to him and he has a unique interaction with him as he kills him where the Silencer says "I've silenced that annoying tongue of yours!" I'm like DAMN STRAIGHT that bitch has an annoying voice.. hohooooo. god stfu. lmao. Even worse is that one spider bitch what was her name. I remember playing against her all the time back in the original game. broodmother, she's always been a REAL pain in the ass...like from multiple directions...not just in your lane, or having to fight against her 1v1 or ever really...just having her on the opposite team spells a.pain.in.the.ass. i mean if they are any good with her anyways. Like, good broodmothers are the absolute fucking kings of split push you wouldn't fucking believe it's fucking DISGUSTING. She has always been like that. Storm is REALLY new in comparison to many other heroes. I remember him being released in the original game. He's nothing like his first iteration, and nobody could play him. iirc i think he MIGHT have had the same ult i don't remember...the one where he can zip around the entire map as long as he has mana. His other abilities where a lot different though, like he was more of an AA hero, that relied on like.. every 4th auto-attack(that was his big gimmick in his normal abilities). His normal abilities in his final iteration is disgusting though. Zip around, do aoe burst with a hook/disable. lol yeah. that's right, he's got a disable/hook. Imagine Thresh can zip around the entire map and hook your entire team in your fountain...and that it's balanced, and no one is complaining.

Jarring12/14/2019, 1:41:22 AM1 votes

Like.. one day.. I really would like to see Guinsoo and Icefrog to meet up and shake hands and show the world that the 2 games are not enemies. It's ridiculous that there are people on both sides who view the 2 games as mortal enemies. I mean, they might be rivals, but enemies? Hell no. DotA 2 does not and CAN not be successful from the league failing...and vice-versa. People are going to play both games regardless of how the other is doing. It's just a matter of fact. They are 2 completely different games. League was built from the ground up, only using dota as the idea for the genre. It would be like almost every cartoon or animation would be Disney. Yes, cartoons and animation in general owe a lot to Disney, but that doesn't mean every cartoon is Disney, nor does it mean every animation has to be family friendly. You can pull ideas from other games like dota without actually ever having to worry about copyright. Valve doesn't own copyrights to the idea of towers that shoot a particular distance, or creeps that have worthwhile health and resistances, etc. etc. In fact, I've seen Valve implement ideas that were obviously inspired from League of Legends, because they were just good ideas. It's equivalent to getting owned by a certain champion every game when you all you do to counter it is play the exact same champions, inevitably getting owned over and over again, refusing to ever try and play that champion out of resentment and spite. I mean, at the very least, by playing that champion, you'll inevitably figure out how to play against it right? Anyways, it's kind of like the personality of Hashinshin. League is actually Hashinshin. He doesn't even know it. I'm not saying it's always like that, just... sometimes it really does seem like it is true...based off of certain gameplay elements that refuse to ever be altered in any way. Like.. the ALCOVE is a BIG step forward. That's taking a huge ass leap taking note from DotA...i mean not dota 2, the original fucking game. it has alcoves like that throughout the entire map.. I mean instead of shrubbery, you have trees that have an infinite number of pathways you can lose vision in. THAT'S AN AMAZING ALTERATION, and AN IDEA THEY CAN EXPAND ON. They don't need trees that make an infinite number of them....but they can DEFINITELY EXPAND ON ALCOVES.

Dynikus12/13/2019, 9:45:30 AM1 votes

99% of the players of this game are not pro-players, so why balance around less than 1% of players?

Do you want the actual reason why this is the most prominent method of balancing across every game?

Jarring12/14/2019, 2:15:37 AM1 votes

and just saying, if any Riot employee sees this and thinks i have good ideas, they should just hire me. Yeah, I don't really have any technical skills so to speak in game design.. but I know for a fact that I have more experience in the genre than 99.99999% of players. No, I'm not like, super good at LoL or anything because I don't play it. I've never played it enough to get super good at it. However, for comparison, when I played DotA Allstars and Heroes of Newerth, I was "challenger" level skill. I simply did not lose. Not even when I played private games made from the TDA lobby. I did lose a bunch in HoN, my first experience of true mmr was crazy and could only keep a 66% winrate. In the original game I'd lose maybe one game a day, and when throneit came out, I remember it being a HUGE bummer that my winrate dipped below 90% after 100 games played lol. That being said, I only ever played with "pros" so to speak when I hung out in the "Clan TDA" Lobby, which was created by Guinsoo and Pendragon themselves(creators of LoL). Is Steve Pendragon Mescon reading this? I've read you still work for Riot. IDK if I met you personally in the lobby. But I hung out there sometimes and played games with the TDA crowd when I was itching for something more than a regular pubstomp. I know you managed the website...so if any Rioter that matters sees this, it'd be you. I'm telling you, you don't have to agree with me. You don't have to like me. You don't even have to acknowledge me. I just wanted to say, I'm one of you, and I'm willing to work with you.