Isn't Zed a little too overpowered as an assassin?

Brenticus12·11/30/2014, 2:25:46 AM·39 votes·6,530 views

Compared to the other Assassins, Zed just has too much going on. Easy to learn burst combos, good itemization, reliable escapes, early lane harass and post-6 dominance, scaling AD due to his W and relatively decent defense stats.

Compared to other assassins, he just has a lot going for him. Yeah, you can cleanse deathmark but his burst will get you low enough for an ignite and a passive proc to take you down unless you're sorta tanky. Also most people won't buy mercurial or sash before their core items.

Yeah, like all assassins, bad players will be bad with him. He isn't like WW or Udyr, but mediocre players with mediocre mechanics while still knowing his burst combo can still do very well with him compared to other assassins such as Talon, LeBlanc and Rengar.

Talon has to go all-in otherwise he's dead, same with Rengar.

LeBlanc has bad clear which means you can shove lane into tower and cause her to miss CS or force her to use spells which means less mana while Zed is energy-based and has good clear and CS ability due to his passive.

Akali gets heavily countered by pinks or sweepers (even though that's sort of an unhealthy counterplay mechanic) and her pre-6 threat level is quite low.

Kha Zix gets mana starved easily and is very easy to poke down.

Yasuo is a skill matchup in Zed's favour since Zed has safer pokes and all-ins.

Lissandra is the only real counter but she counters all mobility champs.

Ahri has to land a skillshot charm that doesn't pass through minions unlike Zed's shurikens plus she gets blown up easily by Zed.

TF isn't very useful till mid and late game and even then needs CS for items and gets blown up easily even then.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a rant thread. I don't have a lot of problems playing against Zed since I know how he works and I only ever bother playing Yasuo and Lissandra mid but compared to other assassins, he just has too much going on. Yeah, maybe he falls off late game but all he really needs to do is run to the backline and kill the two damage dealers while your adc and fighters deal with the frontline which all Assassins should be doing but Zed can do it better, faster and with reliable escapes.

I love playing Zed though, the only ninja that really feels like a ninja.

101 Comments

Long Dong Wukong11/30/2014, 3:01:39 AM23 votes

Fizz

Yakas11/30/2014, 2:29:01 AM8 votes

yea um, they need to do something with yi before they touch zed cause atm, yi can 3 hit just about anyone he likes in any game he wants to.

Anonagon11/30/2014, 3:39:02 AM7 votes

My main gripe with Zed is his pushing power

Both his abilities are AoE, and don't do reduced damage to minions. And the free AD from his W combined with his high base AS means he rapes towers.

The only other problem I have with him is how reliable his escapes are. Back when his ulti shadow was placed behind his target, smart Zed players were heavily rewarded, but the new one is just an escape button that isn't actually useful in the assassination itself.

The Jubbinator11/30/2014, 4:30:43 AM7 votes

As someone who also loves watching Zed plays I'd disagree on some of those things. His laning is definitely good but if he uses his shadow in lane to poke your jungler should learn to go in while it's on an 18 second cooldown. In teamfights if he doesn't use his shadows effectively when he ults someone he can easily be cc'd. Generally I see that Zed's can have a problem with teams that group tightly and protect their squishies in fights. Also, if a Zed doesn't get fed early, it's really hard for him to kill people without items from kills. Pay attention to Zed's changes that have been made within the past year. November of season 3 they changed his ult shadow to what it is now and his w travels slower. The only people complaining about him during that time were ragers that had just lost a game to a fed Zed or something. Then patch 4.14 came out where the only changes to him were placing him behind ulted targets and ignoring unit collision when he ulted. Imo, Zed is one of the most balanced champions due to the amount of strengths he has as well as his weaknesses, specifically in teamfights and playing from behind.

Nausicäa 11/30/2014, 4:56:43 AM7 votes

Nah you cant really compare Assassins in this game.

Reason being that roughly half of the Assassins are old design champions, meaning they are binary and lack counterplay.(Champions like Talon or Akali) Generally speaking Riot doesnt want these champions to be super strong as they are in queue for eventual reworks and gameplay adjustments.

The only legit Assassins that are worth discussion are Zed, Fizz, Leblanc and possibly Ahri although its debatable as to whether shes an Assassin or a Mage.

ThePlasticSpork11/30/2014, 7:33:08 AM7 votes

Zed has a lot of mechanics that are pretty big inherent flaws in design.

For one, Zed does not get punished, or at least is much harder to punish compared to other assassins, for making mistakes when he commits. <Most> other assassins in the game are at least punished hugely for committing and then failing to kill their intended target, whereas Zed simply decides that it's going poorly for him and leaves. Essentially, Zed can afford to be a total moron FAR too often for an assassin, which are supposed to "strike when the time is right - no sooner, no later" according to Riot. Well let me tell you, Zed sure as hell can afford to not strike when the time is right.

Second, Zed has a lot of safety involved in his kit even when you ignore the above. If Zed finds that laning is difficult, he can just safely farm and then scale up later anyway. It's absolutely insane that an assassin has such strong wave clear as early in the game as Zed does.

And THEN we take into account the fact that Zed runs on energy, which means infinite poke and wave clear in lane. In my opinion, it is an inherently idiotic notion for an assassin to have access to essentially infinite ranged harass that is only limited by cooldowns, which also goes over minions for good measure. Aren't assassins supposed to be risky? If most other assassins miss with spells, they just chunked their own mana bar and didn't get much out of it. If Zed misses, the consequence is...well, damn, I have to try again later.

Seriously. Fuck this champion.

Poorly Dressed11/30/2014, 7:53:34 AM3 votes

I think Zed is a fair champion compared to other click pub stompers like Katarina, Fizz or Talon! He also has a fairly high cooldown on W compared to fizz E and he can't get Zhonyas on top of it. The only thing that he has going for him is a really strong laning phase for an assassin that others maybe don't have. Maybe nerf his damage/passive on Minions to make it harder to farm? And pulling off flashy plays with shadow management is quite a task to master, but borderline op if you did :) I can only speak for myself but i'm never angry when i'm getting outplayed by Zed, but i get pretty salty if Talon just clicks and stealthes away or Katarina presses E+R and resets like no tomorrow

Vertanium11/30/2014, 11:06:58 PM3 votes

Zed is strong because all other assassins are not as strong, Just like junglers, when one top pick dies, (aka nerfed a little too hard) another one comes up from tier 2 to take its place. This is just part of that cycle, until someone GG's too much about zed or Pros pick him too much at LCS, causing him to get nerfed and another assassin rises up to take its place. (most likely akali or kat, hell maybe even ahri)

Saltinc11/30/2014, 4:26:47 PM2 votes

Every champion is good in it's own way. If you do not like playing against a certain champ, ban it. If you play blind the majority of the time, then you play at your own risk. I for one would rather play against said champ (in this case Zed) and learn what the champs weaknesses are.

ProfDrDeath11/30/2014, 6:09:48 PM2 votes

Zed's "problem", so to speak, isn't the strength of his assassination. It is more in the fact how strong his fallback pattern, aka his waveclear and farming capabilities, are.

To tune that back, they could possibly remove the passive triggering on minions and/or lower Q's damage to minions.

DSRM Mobius12/1/2014, 12:04:23 AM2 votes

sir I main zed and yes he is very good at CSing because of his passive, he has good all in potential but if someone gets(like you mentioned)a item 3140item 3157 Zilean or Kayle his ult Is useless, don't get me wrong he still has a lot of burst but he falls off hard late game. zed in my opinion doesn't need to be nerfed at least not right now. people I think would rather pick Fizz Akali Syndra orKatarina for the midlane just because they don't take as much skill to learn. if you have any questions pls ask me. :)

ok ill fed then11/30/2014, 9:05:50 AM2 votes

Current Jgl Warwick can supress you, lifesteal tank your whole team and kill just as fast as zed. I think we should buff Zed to WW's level instead.