The role of Tanks and Fighters in the game

Midnight Link··2 votes·752 views

There's always been a lot of discussion about the place of Tanks in the game, because some argue that there's no clear difference between a Tank and a Fighter, therefore there's no reason to have both in the game.

Currently this is true, because a Tank is just a Fighter with less dmg and a bit more CC, basically a different kind of Fighter... With the current design Tanks can never be healthy or balanced since whenever a tank is viable, considering that he doesn't scale with any offensive statistics he just builds defense and this makes everyone feel sad, he feels bad because he is just a pile of defensive statistics unable to do anything (the fighters have almost as much CC as him but they deal a lot more dmg) as well as the opponents because they feel like there's nothing they can do to break someone so tanky.

I have an idea to separate Tanks from fighters and make em shine on their own, so a team can chose to pick a Tank over a Fighter if the situation demands it, but more importantly, to bring diversity to campions by increasing the strong points a class. The idea is to do the same with Tanks that was done to Supports last season: make it so that a Tank's utility scales with an offensive statistic. This approach will mean that a Tank will need to balance his offensive and defensive buys (just like a Fighter) and the more offensive they go, the riskyer it gets, but the higher the reward will be as well. This means that a Tank will have a real say in how much tanky he needs to get according to the situation without just giving em damage and making em the same as Fighters. Let's make an example just to clarify (this example was created just to explain my thought process, this is by no means a suggestion as to how the champ should be reworked), Shen could have his e taunt duration increased based on his AP, his ult could teleport him to his ally faster scaling with AP, the heal from his q to his allies could also scale with AP, he could even have a slow on his passive that increases with AP as well.

What do you guys think?

8 Comments

Old Man Teeto1 votes

Tank: Alistar Bruiser: Olaf

The problem is that they share itemization, if Olaf can build full tank and kill a carry while tanking a teams worth of damage he's oppressive.

If Alistar can build damage and kill a carry while tanking a teams worth of damage he's oppressive.

Both of these have happened at various times, Riot prefers characters that just "die" when caught even if they're oppressive in other ways it means a "team" can supposedly overcome those champions. (See every Assassin/Duelist)

While I doubt Riot will ever solve this conundrum as without doing large scale changes keeping the "five" roles viable is impossible.

Bruiser (Olaf, Trundle, Renekton) Tank (Alistar, Leona, Nautilus) Assassin (Fizz, Zed) AP Utility (Orianna, Lulu, Janna) Sustained Damage (ADC, Karthus, Cassio etc)

Note: Many champions do 2 or more of these roles. IE: Yasuo is both an Assassin and Sustained Damage

Midnight Link1 votes

The problem is that Alistar, in order to be useful with the current state of the game has to be able to deal as much damage as a bruiser while being tanky, and this is why the system itself fails, the only places where tanks were ever viable was in the support role because supports get less gold income therefore it's not expected of them to be able to be as tanky as a fighter and still deal the same damage they are able to. Some seasons ago when junglers were also not able to get gold as other laners tanks were viable for the same reason that support did.

My point is: as the game currently stands in order for a tank to become viable he needs to change from tank to fighter, watch maokai when he was reworked, he basically changed from tank to fighter(bruiser)

My plan to solve solve this problem is to create strengths in tanks besides the damage, and what is it that tanks bring to the game that fighters don't? more CC/utility, so that's what I want to increase, i wanna make it so that a tank's utility scales through the game, just like a support's, so a tank can remain strong as a fighter, but for a different reason than being good 1vs1 or having a lot of damage. This way Alistar could be strong, not because he deals a lot of damage bue because he has a lot of knockups and the more offense he buys the stronger his knockups get, but he will also die faster so a player would have to take that under consideration when building

AloneInTheCrowd1 votes

tower dive .

Done251 votes

Most people can't even tell the difference between fighters and tanks. That in and of itself should send up a huge red flag to Riot.

ThePurpleKnight1 votes

Wtf they aren't very alike, what is peoples problem, not all durability is the same despite the items pretty much always being the same.

Tanks are champions like Leona, and Rammus who have abilities to increase durability most of the time, usually on W.

Fighters are more like Skarner or Riven, champions that should have durability in their build, but don't naturally come with very much, usually having a shield or built in sustain at best.

Midnight Link1 votes

Currently Skarner is a tank not a fighter, there were some problems with that after the rework, but he is a perfect example for me to explain my thought process further ahead.

Both tanks and fighters have some sort of defensive skill, any meele champion needs a defensive ability in order to be able to work, be it assassin, fighter or tank, examples of this are Yasuo with his Wind Wall, kha with his w and ultit, Skarner with his w, same for Leona, Renekton's q, Rengar's w, i could go on. Bottom line is that having more/less defense/CC in his kit is not a big enough difference to mean a certain champion is a tank or a fighter.

Now on to my point, when Skarner was reworked, they changed him from a tank to a fighter, increasing his scalings with damage and reducing his CC, now they reduced his damage again and gave him more CC returning him to his intended role, the thing is that damage scales through the game, while CC doesnt, this means that tanks benefit less from items than fighters, that's why they tend to build more tanky (defensive items scale pretty much the same on anyone, except for malphite and another few :D) , so my idea is to give tanks a way to scale into the game, so they can actually get stronger as the game goes

ThePurpleKnight1 votes

Currently Skarner is a tank not a fighter, there were some problems with that after the rework, but he is a perfect example for me to explain my thought process further ahead.

Both tanks and fighters have some sort of defensive skill, any meele champion needs a defensive ability in order to be able to work, be it assassin, fighter or tank, examples of this are Yasuo with his Wind Wall, kha with his w and ultit, Skarner with his w, same for Leona, Renekton's q, Rengar's w, i could go on. Bottom line is that having more/less defense/CC in his kit is not a big enough difference to mean a certain champion is a tank or a fighter.

Now on to my point, when Skarner was reworked, they changed him from a tank to a fighter, increasing his scalings with damage and reducing his CC, now they reduced his damage again and gave him more CC returning him to his intended role, the thing is that damage scales through the game, while CC doesnt, this means that tanks benefit less from items than fighters, that's why they tend to build more tanky (defensive items scale pretty much the same on anyone, except for malphite and another few :D) , so my idea is to give tanks a way to scale into the game, so they can actually get stronger as the game goes

No Skarner has pretty much always been listed as a Fighter, and from the moment I joined around Season 3, and even watching his champion spotlight back in Season two, he has always have a durable but offensive build. I messaged support about some buffs a while back, they're not allowed to help me but they did tell me "this seems reasonable as Skarner was originally intended as a Fighter"

Skarner is about being inescapable and having good duel potential.

His weakness is being difficult to close gaps being that he has only a speed boost. No gap closer like most other bruisers that focus on dueling, Jax, Irelia, Xin Zhao, Fiora, ect

Get caught out, good luck to you, RIP. LOL Get Rekt.

Don't get caught out and you win.

Midnight Link1 votes

the role/state of Skarner is not the point of this discussion...

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