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Some thoughts on Ahri, and her many strengths

DolphinDingus··12 votes·1,765 views

Ahri has been around for quite a bit. She has seen many changes to herself. However, with her current kit and playstyle, she has a large amount of power with little counterplay. She has:

(EDIT) decent AP scalings all damaging abilities autotargeting abilities true damage a hard cc super mobility (self speed steroid on Q and ult dash) and sustain.

Overall, she is an annoying lane opponent that is hard to itemize against, difficult to poke down, difficult to burst down, and it is impossible to dodge all of her abilities. Now, I have been of this opinion for a very long time, but I thought Riot would change something about her. But nope. In fact, Morello, which is mostly core on her, got buffed. Because of this, I am making a plea: please do something about Ahri, Riot.

Anyone else been thinking the same thing? Anyone have any counterarguments? Anyone have any counters for Ahri that I can use? Because I am sick and tired of her.

EDIT: I should be clear: my main dislike is that she is lacking a clear and exploitable weakness, unlike most other champs. Also, most of my arguments are aimed towards laning phase.

47 Comments

ofart6 votes

I think she's on the cusp of being OP but still falls under the balanced category. Her damage output and scalings aren't actually that impressive and she's really fallen out of favor in higher ELO mostly for those reasons. LB is better than her in many ways. It's why you see LB in tournament play sometimes but never Ahri these days.

SpongebobIsLife1 votes

yeah, i think ahri left lcs play when they nerfed charm stopping dashes. Because before she heavily countered popular picks like Lee, Rek Sai, LeBlanc, and Alistar. Not so much anymore.

DolphinDingus1 votes

I think the problems with LB and my problems with Ahri both stem from the same thing: they can fit both as mages and assassins. LB's problem is worse due to the fact that she can burst really easy (like an assassin), but get away fairly easily, which I think is quite a mutation of what assassins should be: when they go in, they have to commit themselves (of course, assassins have escapes, but they are usually more difficult to use, or wasted when they go in). LB can easily escape. Ahri can too, but to a lesser extent, and Ahri also is more of a mage.

ValyrianBlade5 votes

EDIT: I should be clear: my main dislike is that she is lacking a clear and exploitable weakness, unlike most other champs. Also, most of my arguments are aimed towards laning phase.

She has a fairly weak early lane (pre 6) as she's squishy and easy to gank. If she tries to poke you with Q, she auto-pushes the wave making her an easy target.

She lacks weakness compared to other champions, but also lacks strengths. She's a safe pick for that reason, it's a big part of her identity. She does SO LITTLE DAMAGE. That's a real weakness. There are so many better mid laners to pick if you want to kill someone - just add up her AP ratios and base damage compared to most others. Her damage is in line with Malphite more so than most mages (at least as of earlier this season, I think Malphite got a bit of a nerf).

She CAN'T kill you in lane. For the most part she can't even kill an ADC unless he's really low or overextended. The only way she gets kills in lane is if you severely overstay (or if she gets a gank). The only way she succeeds late game is if you don't focus her at all / chase her too much.

DolphinDingus1 votes

Well, she does push the lane. She is a safe pick. However, she does a decent amount of damage. Enough so that she can kill someone, in fact quite easily (if a mid laner was unable to kill an ADC, I think they would be slated for an immediate buff). In lane, she can kill you, and you don't even need to be low (of course, it helps if you have around 80% hp). If she can land an E (which is a good amount of CC while also being a quite fast moving skillshot), that plus Q and W and you will lose a good bit of health. If she has her ult and/or ignite, you are as good as dead, so she could fairly easily kill you. Of course, the Ahri player has to be skilled, but so do most players. Plus, her early lane is actually kind of decent. Sure, she doesn't do as much damage as some, and doesn't have as much range as others, but her sustain plus her mobility more than make up for that.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

Well, she does push the lane. She is a safe pick. However, she does a decent amount of damage. Enough so that she can kill someone, in fact quite easily (if a mid laner was unable to kill an ADC, I think they would be slated for an immediate buff). In lane, she can kill you, and you don't even need to be low (of course, it helps if you have around 80% hp). If she can land an E (which is a good amount of CC while also being a quite fast moving skillshot), that plus Q and W and you will lose a good bit of health. If she has her ult and/or ignite, you are as good as dead, so she could fairly easily kill you. Of course, the Ahri player has to be skilled, but so do most players. Plus, her early lane is actually kind of decent. Sure, she doesn't do as much damage as some, and doesn't have as much range as others, but her sustain plus her mobility more than make up for that.

As I said in my post, add up her ratios. You'll quickly realize that she CAN'T kill you in lane. Definitely not from 80%. If you let her poke you to 40% and she lands a charm, then sure, she can kill you. Otherwise though, she won't be able to kill you 1v1 without you severely overstaying unless she gets pretty far ahead. Same goes for killing an ADC, she can't just roam bot and 80-0 the enemy ADC unless she's ahead or the ADC is behind. She simply doesn't have the damage.

What she does have is good AOE damage that makes her good in a teamfight. She's not weak because of these qualities. It's just her tradeoff, her weakness is that while you can't kill her in lane very easily, she can't kill you at all. And there are a good amount of champions that can indeed kill her in lane, but that's beside the point.

Her charm is only a 1 second CC, and it is NOT a fast moving skillshot. It's one of the easiest skillshots in the game to dodge. Considerably easier to dodge than a Blitzcrank grab (both are blocks by minions, and blitzcrank's is more than twice as fast). Similar to a Morgana Q (moves slightly faster, but Morg's Q has a larger / wonkier hitbox - and Morgana's Q has a considerably longer duration). There's a reason any Ahri player worth his salt has to master the Flash-E and R-E combos. The only way to hit it against your average opponent is to jump on their face before casting it.

Elphrihaim4 votes

edit who downvoted this thread

this is a good thread

why is it getting downvoted

{quoted} autotargeting abilities

This reaaally isn't a good point autotargets aren't exactly any easier to use when compared to targetted abilities-- they're just faster to spam

hard to itemize against,

she deals almost exclusively magic damage..?

difficult to burst down,

is she building defensive items? i mean, most ahris I see are really easy to burst down because they build themselves as tough as paper.

it is impossible to dodge all of her abilities.

this is a true statement for most mages. many of them have a targetted ability.

please do something about Ahri, Riot.

But is she even too good in any aspect? Is there some part of her that's too strong?

She's a bit of a generalist, yes, but she doesn't really warp games around her play.

Is there something about her that's overbearing? That makes her too easy to play, that makes her too hard to play against?

Is she even any of those things?

Anyone else been thinking the same thing?

well personally not at all

Anyone have any counters for Ahri that I can use?

by positioning with your team you can make her really regret using her ultimate purely for damage's sake 'cuz she'll get stuck near your allies.

Because I am sick and tired of her.

i don't see why, at all, you'd be tired of somebody that can actually be played against in lane effectively... :C

DolphinDingus1 votes

Alright, so as far as autotargeting abilities go, my point is that most mages that have them use them for utility or other uses, not just damage. Also, I should have been clear: my problem with Ahri is that she doesn't have very clear weaknesses. My point on the itemization part is that a good chunk of her damage is true damage. At a 35% scaling, and very spammable, it is difficult to build a good item as a mid laner. The bursting point is the fact that she just runs away or cc's you, meaning that, if you are playing a bursty champ who has a gap closer, you have to save it until she ults, or E's, or Q's, otherwise she will just run away before you can do any damage. Course, late game she can be bursted, so I should have made it clear that I am talking about laning, for the most part.

My main argument is that she has no clear and exploitable weaknesses, (in laning phase) unlike almost all other champs.

RogueWill2 votes

{quoted}

edit who downvoted this thread

this is a good thread

why is it getting downvoted

This reaaally isn't a good point autotargets aren't exactly any easier to use when compared to targetted abilities-- they're just faster to spam

she deals almost exclusively magic damage..?

is she building defensive items? i mean, most ahris I see are really easy to burst down because they build themselves as tough as paper.

this is a true statement for most mages. many of them have a targetted ability.

But is she even too good in any aspect? Is there some part of her that's too strong?

She's a bit of a generalist, yes, but she doesn't really warp games around her play.

Is there something about her that's overbearing? That makes her too easy to play, that makes her too hard to play against?

Is she even any of those things?

well personally not at all

by positioning with your team you can make her really regret using her ultimate purely for damage's sake 'cuz she'll get stuck near your allies.

i don't see why, at all, you'd be tired of somebody that can actually be played against in lane effectively... :C

She is too safe....unless she commits to a fight you can't touch her at all.

Elphrihaim3 votes

{quoted}

She is too safe....unless she commits to a fight you can't touch her at all.

Correct.

And if she doesn't commit to a fight she doesn't get W or R damage, either.

So less catchable, less effective.

Seems like a reasonable tradeoff.

._.

edit: who downvoted roguewill why would you downvote somebody who has a valid point eha8932au5woij4twrklnhg 8w94atepgoidjs;lk

RogueWill1 votes

{quoted}

Correct.

And if she doesn't commit to a fight she doesn't get W or R damage, either.

So less catchable, less effective.

Seems like a reasonable tradeoff.

._.

edit: who downvoted roguewill why would you downvote somebody who has a valid point eha8932au5woij4twrklnhg 8w94atepgoidjs;lk

Under normal circumstances she can't get the W and R damage. The thing changes thou if you are chasing her to last hit her or something like that. Then she will be able to deal the damage while still stay away from you.

YJRBqwXJcS4 votes

people starting to realize ahri has issues.

it only took 3 seasons

blfUvZ8Ybu1 votes

Because Rito's special champion.

Unavoidable for money, skins and a lot of thing.

Miraweave4 votes

Ahri should wear fewer clothes tbh

Buff Jax please3 votes

Lmao...can't wait to hear the excuses of the Ahri fangirls.

Just wait until they tell you "Ahri is bad atm" "Ahri is so useless right now".

YumScrumptious963 votes

Just wait until they prove that Ahri may be good, but she's no Ryze or pre-nerf Azir. She's strong but not in the meta.

Buff Jax please2 votes

Nah fam...she is "useless atm".

YumScrumptious962 votes

All you are doing is completely ruining your whole point, you say Ahri mains are bad but you are pretty much what you hate, someone who doesn't have any proof or evidence nor can they make legitimate responses.

Buff Jax please1 votes

Rofl...what evidence do I need to have? Still waiting for an Ahri fangirl to name me one legitimate weakness Ahri has.

YumScrumptious962 votes

You don't present anything to make your argument legit, that's the problem. One weakness? Her only mobility that isn't flash is her ult and when it's on cooldown she's very easy to kill. Don't say her Q is mobility because the movement speed isn't enough to get her away quickly.

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

You are pretty right. She is strong, and has been for awhile. Riot are probably thinking about/testing changes internally. I wouldn't be surprised to see something pop up in the next round for her, but they have to be careful, because she isn't crazy out of line. She's a little strong. If they nerf too hard, it'll gimp her, and they don't want to do that, either.

DolphinDingus2 votes

I completely agree. While I do dislike her, a slightly powerful champ is better than a very under powered champ.

Blåbæret3 votes

I've never had a problem vs. Ahri. Think she's a well-balanced champ. I've also played her a fair bit, but feel like her damage falls off as mentioned below me.

blfUvZ8Ybu3 votes

True.Salty Ahri mains deny this.Freelo fox.

Ereldra2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akatsuki Deidara,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XLh9Gtzi,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-05-19T23:38:12.853+0000)

Salty Azir mains

So true. Always this salty Azir mains claiming that Ahri is OP while their champ is picked or banned in almost every Pro-Game D:

blfUvZ8Ybu1 votes

Yes.I wrote wrong.You fixed.Also me too.Thanks.Ahri is op.You know this at least.

xxxDogmanxxx3 votes

I actually think Ahri is one of the most balanced champions in the entire league. She has good, but not insane damage. She has mobility and good outplay potential that scales well with the skill of the Ahri player. She has an okay sustain that leads to her not getting dumpstered but doesn't exactly lead to her absolute dominance in the laning phase. She has clear counterplay, just dodge her charm and she's easy to deal with. She has a jack of all trades, master of none thing going on for her that makes her fun to play and yet not overwhelming for the opponent.

dim2a3 votes

I don't see a problem with ahri. Yes, she's safe, but that's her specialty. She's a good roamer, but not too threatening unless fed, I thinks she's one of the healthy champions in the league.

I main mid/jg, so I get to play vs her from time to time -- while she isn't an easy lane, seeing her picked never makes me dread going to lane either (like, say, fizz or zed can, depending on who I play).

And before "ooh, ahri main" responses --- I haven't played her. At all. But I don't see a reason for her to be nerfed.

RisenDarkKnight2 votes

I think her weakness is her damage is relatively low and her teamfight is mediocre. She is a low risk, low reward champion. It is hard to destroy ahri in lane, but she can't kill anyone moderately tanky unless fed. And while she can stomp some immobile squishies in lane, it is much harder for her to assasinate them in teamfights due to peel/shields/heals/exhaust. And her aoe damage is not nearly as explosive as a lot of other mid laners.

I like to pick swain into her as she can't kill him through his ult, and he is much stronger in teamfights. He can't really kill her in lane if she plays safe though. That is her biggest annoyance: she is practically ungankable, but it's something she share with a few other champs (leblanc, tryndamere, ekko, etc.).

Miraweave1 votes

{quoted}

I think her weakness is her damage is relatively low and her teamfight is mediocre. She is a low risk, low reward champion. It is hard to destroy ahri in lane, but she can't kill anyone moderately tanky unless fed. And while she can stomp some immobile squishies in lane, it is much harder for her to assasinate them in teamfights due to peel/shields/heals/exhaust. And her aoe damage is not nearly as explosive as a lot of other mid laners.

I like to pick swain into her as she can't kill him through his ult, and he is much stronger in teamfights. He can't really kill her in lane if she plays safe though. That is her biggest annoyance: she is practically ungankable, but it's something she share with a few other champs (leblanc, tryndamere, ekko, etc.).

^

Ahri's midgame is great, but her ability to teamfight lategame is pretty shite.

DolphinDingus1 votes

Alright. Maybe I just dislike her because of my preference for assassins and bursty champs. I do think that there should be less low risk champs, because I do think all champs should have certain risks to them (I guess hers is that she doesn't add as much lategame) but, with the new style and length of games, this is much less of a problem, so a strong mid game makes for a stronger champ.

Lady Hammerlock2 votes

"clear exploitable weakness" Her early game is Garbage in many match ups She does take a certain amount of skill Slow cast time,very predictable skill shots

N3mO062 votes

{quoted}

"clear exploitable weakness" Her early game is Garbage in many match ups She does take a certain amount of skill Slow cast time,very predictable skill shots

You have 'Garbage early' with Akaly, when you can't litterally Cs and you have 0 kill pressure and you are poked all time. For Ahri garbage early means: oh I can't kill him, but hey, just clear and wait the jungler who can always gank me thanks to my charm, which is the strongest single target cc of all game without a cast time (slow,root, blind, fear,stun, player blindness, charm)

Lady Hammerlock2 votes

{quoted}

You have 'Garbage early' with Akaly, when you can't litterally Cs and you have 0 kill pressure and you are poked all time. For Ahri garbage early means: oh I can't kill him, but hey, just clear and wait the jungler who can always gank me thanks to my charm, which is the strongest single target cc of all game without a cast time (slow,root, blind, fear,stun, player blindness, charm)

Any good Ahri will literally dominate the game Im pretty sure it isn't when she's in lane that she's annoying Its when she starts roaming using her bullshit mobility and her charm which if it connects basically means your likely dead or burn all your defensive summoners

do i think she's balanced?fuck no do i think she's broken?not at all Do i think she's frustrating as hell?1000% yes

Miraweave1 votes

{quoted}

"clear exploitable weakness" Her early game is Garbage in many match ups She does take a certain amount of skill Slow cast time,very predictable skill shots

I wouldn't really say her earlygame is garbage in any matchup. That's kind of the point of her.

The Loveless2 votes

Her damage is just right. She's not oppressive or OP. Maybe you mean she annoys you the same way Teemo annoys people.

DolphinDingus1 votes

Yeah, probably. I should definitely change that to "decent damage." But that is the thing, for someone as safe as she is, decent damage is enough to be very annoying.

(She could be my Teemo, seeing as how I love to lane against him).

Buff Jax please2 votes

Isn't it ridiculous how no one who commented here could present any counter arguments to what the OP listed yet this has -3 downvotes.

Lycanoon1 votes

Her "charm" and Ball do NOT follow suit...they poke in the direction aimed.

I do have one grip about her charm, and that would be the slow. It would be better if her charm didn't slow us down. What's the point of slowing us down when it should make us rush faster towards her so that the fox fire can do it's job? I hate getting super close to people I charm due to a few crucial things...

Tenacity for one. Items for two. and... Team ganks when their tank or ADC gets hit with the charm, they all rush forward. Sure, saving fox fire for poking later would be wise...but if you're pressuring your enemy's tank/support or ADC...yea. It makes for better utility of her skills.

Least that's how I feel about it.

Elphrihaim1 votes

{quoted}

I do have one grip about her charm, and that would be the slow. It would be better if her charm didn't slow us down. What's the point of slowing us down when it should make us rush faster towards her so that the fox fire can do it's job?

Fokufu's range was nerfed by ~125 when her Charm gained or lost the damage amp* to make her more approachable so she wouldn't just kite-kill everybody.

*I forgot when. I think it was when it lost the amp.

RobbieFry131 votes

I'm not that well versed in Ahri but in my limited experience her draw back seems to be that she is pretty squishy. I don't play a lot of mid with your usual suspects.Yasuo Zed Lux so if I I can't jungle or support I have to Galio or Maokai and they seem to do well against her. Build magic resist and HP, avoid her Charm and if you can close on her (mao E + W then Q) (Galio Q + E then R) she won't be able to do enough damage before you bring her down.

MissMikasa1 votes

Diana beats the crap out of her just so you know. Ahri does have counters, and is easier to manage against then say like Zed or Fizz.

blfUvZ8Ybu2 votes

Ahri does have counters but she is so safe and unkilleable.Look match history high elo Ahri mains.2 or 3 deaths every match.

But other champions? Average 5-6 deaths.

RogueWill1 votes

Ahri is one of the safest champions out there and the only reason she is not played so much in competitive is because her auto targeted abilities go towards the tank and not the carries.

You can play an assassin and wait for her to miss her charm to go in, the drawback is that she can simply make it a farm lane (never use the charm) and she will out scale any champion.

Personally I like to play zoners and just push the lane considerably (while I stay close enough to my turrets to avoid ganks) so she can't roam while can't really kill me. I like Heimerdinger and Zyra but Azir does considerably well as well.

Automatis1 votes

One time I lost lane to Ahri as Orianna.

So I agree 100% with you, buff Ori.

Miraweave1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Clock Codes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XLh9Gtzi,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2016-05-20T15:07:14.974+0000)

One time I lost lane to Ahri as Orianna.

So I agree 100% with you, buff Ori.

+1 BUFF THE FREELO ROBOT

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