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Lowering damage creep will fix almost every problem League of Legends is facing

potchiker·6/23/2018, 10:35:02 PM·49 votes·14,255 views

WARNING: WALL OF TEXT

Lets start off by listing the things that obviously wouldnt be there anymore if Riotgames nerfed every champions damage

  • 0.5second bursts wouldnt happen 5-10 times a game
  • Teamfights would last longer

If champions dealt less damage = They would take longer to kill turrets Turrets wont be made out of paper anymore

  • Games would last longer. Maybe that's not a "gameplay issue" but League used to have nice 40 minute games. That's what it was based on.
  • Because of that, marksmen would actually reach late game. The crit rework was nice but games last too short for marksmen to have any impact.
  • Games would be slightly less snowballing, because towers could provide needed safety and could allow teams to secure picks/more gold and come back from the game if they fought under tower.
  • Tower-focused gameplay would be more prevalent, focusing on both solo sieging and team pushing.

Copied from: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/kFBPRQMj-buffing-towers-would-fix-multiple-other-gameplay-issues

Changes that should come with the damage nerfs

Minion changes changing champion damage changes alot of their wave clear paterns

Melee Minion: Health:473 - 1200 ⇒ 426 - 1080 Attack Damage: 12 ⇒ 11

Caster Minion: Health: 296 - 425 ⇒ 266 - 382 Attack Damage: 22.5 (+1.5 / 90s) ⇒ 20.5 (+1.5 / 90s)

Siege Minion: Health: 900 (+ (50 / 60) / 90s) ⇒ 810 (+ (45 / 54) / 90s) Attack Damage: 39.5 (+1.5 / 90s) ⇒ 35.5 (+1.5 / 90s)

Super Minions: Health: 1500 (+ 200 / 180s) ⇒ 1350 (+ 180 / 180s) Attack Damage: 190 (+ 10 / 180s) ⇒ 171 (+ 9 / 180s) Armor: 100 ⇒ 90 Magic res.: -30 ⇒ -33 Super Mech Power Field: grant nearby minions 70% bonus damage, 35 bonus armor and 35 bonus magic res. ⇒ 63% bonus damage, 31 bonus armor and 31 bonus magic res. deal 20% reduced damage to the nexus. ⇒ deal 22% reduced damage to the nexus.

Changes that should go with the decrease of damage

Nerfing damage will also make it really hard to kill jungle monsters

Gromp Health: 1800 - 3150 ⇒ 1620 - 2835 Magic res.:-15 / -22 / -26 / -28 / -30 ⇒ -16 / -24 / -29 / -31 / -33

Crimson Raptor Health: 700 - 1225 ⇒ 630 - 1102 Armor: 30 / 45 / 53 / 56 / 60 ⇒ 27 / 40 / 48 / 50 / 54 Magic res.: 30 / 45 / 53 / 56 / 60 ⇒ 27 / 40 / 48 / 50 / 54

Raptor Health: 400 - 680 ⇒ 360 - 612

Greater Murk Wolf Health: 1300 - 2275 ⇒ 1170 - 2047 Armor: 10 / 15 / 18 / 19 / 20 ⇒ 9 / 13 / 16 / 17 / 18

Murk Wolf Health: 380 - 665 ⇒ 342 - 598 Magic res.: 10 / 15 / 18 / 19 / 20 ⇒ 9 / 13 / 16 / 17 / 18

Ancient Krug Health: 1250 - 2188 ⇒ 1125 - 1969 Magic res: -15 / -22 / -26 / -28 / -30⇒ -16 / -24 / -29 / -31 / -33

Krug Health: 500 - 875 ⇒ 450 - 787

Lesser Krug 60 - 105 ⇒ 54 - 94

Rift Scuttler Health: 1200 - 2480 ⇒ 1080 - 2232 Armor: 60 ⇒ 54 Magic res.: 60 ⇒ 54 ~~under the effect of crowd control that prevents her movement, she receives 25% extra damage ~~ ⇒ under the effect of crowd control that prevents her movement, she receives 27.5% extra damage


Lets remove some damage  from ![Yasuo](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.11.1/img/champion/Yasuo.png) Yasuo  as an example, A champion alot of people hate 

![Yasuo](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.11.1/img/champion/Yasuo.png) **Yasuo**

**BaseStats**
Attack Damage: ~~63 - 117-4~~ ⇒ 56.7 - 99.66

**Passive**
~~his basic attacks deal 10% reduced damage when Critical strike icon critically striking.~~ ⇒ his basic attacks deal 11% reduced damage when Critical strike icon critically striking.

**Q- Steel Tempest**
~~20 / 45 / 70 / 95 / 120 (+ 100% AD)~~  ⇒ 18 / 40.5 / 63 / 85.5 / 108 (+ 90% AD)
~~Steel Tempest can Critical strike icon critically strike, dealing 80% AD bonus physical damage.~~ ⇒ Steel Tempest can Critical strike icon critically strike, dealing 72% AD bonus physical damage.

**E- Sweeping Blade**
~~60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 (+ 20% bonus AD) (+ 60% AP)~~  ⇒ 54 / 63 / 72 / 81 / 90 (+ 18% bonus AD) (+ 54% AP)
~~Each Sweeping Blade cast increases the next dash's base damage by 25% for 5 seconds, up to 50%.~~ ⇒
Each Sweeping Blade cast increases the next dash's base damage by 22.5% for 5 seconds, up to 45%.

**R- Last Breath
~~200 / 300 / 400 (+ 150% bonus AD)~~ ⇒ 180 / 270 / 360 (+ 135% bonus AD)
~~Yasuo's Critical strike icon critical strikes gain 50% bonus armor penetration.~~ ⇒ Yasuo's Critical strike icon critical strikes gain 45% bonus armor penetration.
--- 


Making champion damage will increase the impact of runes in the game too much, Because of that most keystone runes should be nerfed
---
**Precision**

Press the Attack:
Damage on proc: ~~40 - 180~~ ⇒ 36 - 162
 Bonus Damage: ~~8% - 12%~~ ⇒ 7.2% - 10.8%

Lethal Tempo:
Attack Speed: ~~40% - 110%~~ ⇒ 36% - 99%

Fleet Footwork:
 Heal: ~~3 - 60  (+ 30% bonus AD) (+ 50% AP)~~ ⇒  3 - 54 (based on level) (+ 27% bonus AD) (+ 45% AP)

Conqueror:
 Damage: ~~10 - 35~~ ⇒  9 - 31
True Damage: ~~20%~~ ⇒ 18%

**Domination**

Electrocute:
Damage: ~~ 50 - 220  (+ 50% bonus AD) (+ 30% AP)~~  ⇒ 45 - 198  (+ 45% bonus AD) (+ 27% AP)

Predator:
Damage: ~~60 - 180  (+ 40% bonus AD) (+ 25% AP)~~ ⇒  54 - 162  (+ 36% bonus AD) (+ 22% AP)

Dark Harvest:
Damage: ~~40 - 80 (+ 25% bonus AD) (+ 20% AP)~~  ⇒ 36 - 72 (+ 22% bonus AD) (+ 18% AP)

Heil of Blades:
Attack Speed: ~~75% - 125%~~  ⇒ 67% - 112%

**Sorcery**

Aery:
 Damage: ~~15 - 40 (+ 10% AP) (+ 15% bonus AD)~~  ⇒ 13 - 36 (+ 9% AP) (+ 13% bonus AD)
Shield:

I will be updating this thread over time


Someone below asked to just increase the resistances tbh its a great idea
And the only change that should go with that  is increasing the jungle monsters damage

60 Comments

GigglesO6/24/2018, 2:54:20 AM20 votes

As long as we keep the “assassins need to one shot” mentality everyone needs to be able to one shot to be viable. If I can’t kill you, but you can kill me then why would I ever pick what I did?

Until we accept that assassins 100-0 ing is an unhealthy class design we cannot lower damage.

GigglesO6/24/2018, 4:21:57 AM20 votes

{quoted}

  • Teamfights would last longer

If champions dealt less damage = They would take longer to kill turrets Turrets wont be made out of paper anymore

  • Games would last longer. Maybe that's not a "gameplay issue" but League used to have nice 40 minute games. That's what it was based on.
  • Because of that, marksmen would actually reach late game. The crit rework was nice but games last too short for marksmen to have any impact.
  • Games would be slightly less snowballing, because towers could provide needed safety and could allow teams to secure picks/more gold and come back from the game if they fought under tower.
  • Tower-focused gameplay would be more prevalent, focusing on both solo sieging and team pushing.

For that to happen we would need to admit that assassins aren't a healthy game design.

We hvae to ask ourselves; Do we want assassins being able to one shot people, or do we want four other classes to be viable?

Here is the deal, if assassins need to be able to "one shot" someone then we create the game that we currently have, where everyone needs to be able to one shot everyone. Why? Well because if I can't kill an assassin with a non-assassin I'm not going to play anything but assassins, because they win 100% of the time through one shotting.

Well, the other 4 classes, Tanks, Supports, Adcs, and Mages Don't need to rely on one shotting to get the job done. They have a nice combination of heals/sheilds/cd's and survive ability that lets them do their job. Honestly lets just move away from assassins. We are killing four classes for the benefit of one.

Now lets be explicitly clear here, I also don't want to see a tank meta, where tanks automatically win, but thats the thing about tanks, they often get too much damage, because they also need to compete with assassins, so they often either get overloaded defense, or overloaded offence to make them compete. We need to work in that happy middle ground with all classes where they are able to do their job, but not do it so well that they auto win. If assassins can 100-0 someone we are asking for them to "auto-win" fights by existing. Because its their job to "auto win".

To be honest we actually currently have a very balanced game of (almost) everyone one shots everyone, but the game is just miserable. We need a proper rotation back, and for that we need to accept that assassins shouldn't be 100-0ing players any more than any other champion should be 100-0ing players.

Blakiepug6/24/2018, 2:20:19 PM6 votes

I think lowering damage creep would certainly fix a lot of issues, but at this point I think that mobility creep also needs to be addressed because both have gotten far too out of hand.

BigFBear6/24/2018, 10:58:42 AM5 votes
  • Playing a tank would feel like playing a tank again.

Not a piece of toilet paper, shredded in 3 seconds.

Kurt Hyzan6/24/2018, 12:20:13 PM5 votes

"Games would last longer. Maybe that's not a "gameplay issue" but League used to have nice 40 minute games. That's what it was based on."

Heck, how could Benjamin, 12, be able to play 2 games after school before mom calls him for dinner and then locks him inside his closet for the night

ModAcademy Kayn6/24/2018, 4:49:09 AM3 votes

A lot of the clips from your montage don't hold up, or are the results of severely fed people/some of the squishiest champions.

Garen x Zyra: IE is no longer good alone as an item, Zyra has a low base health + no health items Kayn x Zyra: Wow, he landed all his abilities and she died. He has 5 items, Zyra has 2. He was fed, not representative. Rengar x Lucian: IE is no longer good without an item/innate Critting, Rengar no longer Auto-crits his ult, Rengar has 5 items to Lucian's 2. Nasus x Sivir: Nasus has 200 farm at 20 minutes and Triforce and a BF, while Sivir has one full item, and Nasus is 4 levels above her. Galio x Caitlyn: He has 3 levels on Caitlyn, and that was obviously during the patch where Galio was literally busted. Not a fair example. Karma x Everyone: Wow, the 18/1 Karma did a lot of damage. What. A. Surprise. Jhin x Varus: Jhin has 4 levels on Varus, is very easily implied that he's probably fed in comparison against poor Vaarus. Gragas x Ziggs: I'll give you this one, but that's my bias against Gragas. That said, he's building as a Burst mage, he'll do Burst mage damage. Graves x Cait: I'll give ya this, but I really can't commentate much when it comes to the replays. No items, K/D/A, or context but levels. I'ma just skip Replays unless there's something obvious.

Gangplank x Lulu: He's 6 levels above, fed, and full build. :Think: Crit-Thresh x Lux: Crit Thresh is outlier af, he's always been able to do that at max build. Vayne Penta: A Blue Moon, and still not proving your point Shaco x Syndra: IE is no longer a good standalone item, but almost valid point. Gangplank x Ori: IE is no longer a good standalone item, but Gangbuddy has level and gold advantage. Cait x Twitch: Vlad ult amps damage, and we don't know Caitlyn's fed status. TF x Trist: This is really representative of how shit this montage is as proof, since this is back when Abyssal Sceptor still had it's old Art. TF was fed, next. Jhin Triple: They got meme'd from triple traps. Syndra x Varus: 7 Orb ult, Syndra no longer has triple Orb grab.

I'm gonna stop here cause I want to keep learning stuff, but your montage isn't proof. It's grabbing all these outlier kills from Fed champions, rare circumstances/meme-builds that have always worked that way, or ignoring any and all context from the kills themselves, and the champions involved. Your montage is a shit example, and proves nothing, there is plenty of better evidence out there, go find it instead of copping out for Click-bait Montages of Fed Champions, and a rare few examples (that are scattered amongst a timeline of years)

Nøctμrne6/25/2018, 2:53:58 AM2 votes

Community: please lower damage creep people are dying too fast

Riot: so what you're saying is we should increase the cost of all items in the shop?

Community: no... Lower damage...

Riot: guys we listened to your feedback, and we have increased the amount of true damage in the game.

Btw it looks like you copy pasted the part about the jungle twice

Salamencę6/24/2018, 4:15:38 AM2 votes

This is vid is s7 though

RebeccaUCuber6/24/2018, 10:14:47 AM2 votes

Meanwhile...in 8.13 runes ad and ap will increase xD

Nea1046/24/2018, 1:06:52 PM2 votes

We are in June. Pre-season started over 6 months ago. Things have just got worse, so... I'm pretty sure they're gonna keep going in the wrong direction.

FixHealsRemoveGW6/24/2018, 2:52:25 PM2 votes

There are lot of champions that only are viable because they can successfully go all in, champions that rely on combos. If you lower damage, than sustain, dps and tankiness will always win and champions who rely on burst combos or even cc combos lose their viability. There is a very fragile balance and one does not simply reduce all damage. Damage has to be seen in relation to tankiness, always. When only sustain, dps and tankiness matter, the game becomes one gigantic stat check and snowballing becomes slower but with even less counterplay and skill. You just brawl it out slowly and whoever has the most gold invested into items will INEVITABLY come out on top.

This being said, if your goal was to make games longer and towers more important, the reasonable step would be to make objectives harder to take instead of changing all champions and completely destroying the balance.

MagicFlyingLlama6/23/2018, 11:08:43 PM2 votes

Crit Garen is not a good example of damage creep.

It is a good example of a team feeding its ass off and allowing Garen to build crit - he was always that busted against bads.

That said, it would help, but just nerfing damage across the board would be a titanic balance disaster that would require nearly every assassin and mage to be totally rebalanced, on top of items, minions, turrets, ect.

Sozan56/24/2018, 3:18:20 PM1 votes

Yasuo

BaseStats Attack Damage: 63 - 117-4 ⇒ 56.7 - 99.66

Passive his basic attacks deal 10% reduced damage when Critical strike icon critically striking. ⇒ his basic attacks deal 11% reduced damage when Critical strike icon critically striking.

Q- Steel Tempest 20 / 45 / 70 / 95 / 120 (+ 100% AD) ⇒ 18 / 40.5 / 63 / 85.5 / 108 (+ 90% AD) Steel Tempest can Critical strike icon critically strike, dealing 80% AD bonus physical damage. ⇒ Steel Tempest can Critical strike icon critically strike, dealing 72% AD bonus physical damage.

E- Sweeping Blade 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 (+ 20% bonus AD) (+ 60% AP) ⇒ 54 / 63 / 72 / 81 / 90 (+ 18% bonus AD) (+ 54% AP) Each Sweeping Blade cast increases the next dash's base damage by 25% for 5 seconds, up to 50%. ⇒ Each Sweeping Blade cast increases the next dash's base damage by 22.5% for 5 seconds, up to 45%.

**R- Last Breath 200 / 300 / 400 (+ 150% bonus AD) ⇒ 180 / 270 / 360 (+ 135% bonus AD) Yasuo's Critical strike icon critical strikes gain 50% bonus armor penetration. ⇒ Yasuo's Critical strike icon critical strikes gain 45% bonus armor penetration.

Dunno if that was on purpose, but if you reduce both his % ratios and flat ratios, the damage reduction will be much higher than 10%.

Like, for example on E, you reduce not only the base damage (which would result in subsequent dashes also being reduced) - but also the damage increase, thus making the max damage on E be nerfed by 13% rather than 10% (From 150 to 130 damage rather than 135 as it would be if you only nerfed the base damage).

This is true for pretty much all abilities here and if you continue with this pattern for all the champions, a lot of them will be hurt much more than others.

Flavi Kang6/24/2018, 9:47:30 AM1 votes

I completely agree with you, there's a bit too much damage in the game. However, it will be a nightmare for riot to figure out the base damages and ratios of every ability of every champion in the game, to maintain and keep all the champions in line and balanced (and also they have to worry about the items)

However, instead of lowering the base damage and ratios and also nerf damage items, a better and easier way to approach this is to increase overall resistances i.e. increase the base and scaling-per-level armour/magic resist/health of every champion. Of course doing this would make tanks and tank items op again so they'll have to nerf them as well.

Hèntaî 6/24/2018, 8:15:31 PM1 votes

Not even a nerf for Yasuo, thats a gutting and then some lol.