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Is AP favored in item sets?

Nybx4life·3/2/2015, 3:16:18 AM·1 votes·855 views

It's just something I noticed when I was looking through the items: Most attack damage items such as , , and cap out at 80 attack damage, and does no scaling. Only items to do so are , which favors champs like and as they use spells very often. The other is , a snowballing item (caps at 100 ad).

I'm just curious, why is it that an item like Needlessly Large Rod ( ) provides the same amount in AP (which is the mage's version of ) as fully built items, and some items even scale based of EXISTING AP?

At least, from an item's perspective, you have a damage advantage playing AP champs.

Worse yet, it seems even greater looking at defensive items. Here's some of the highest armor-giving items: - 100 Armor - 100 Armor - 70 Armor - 60 Armor

Now the highest Magic Resist-giving items: - 70 Magic resist - 55 Magic resist - 55 Magic resist - 50 Magic resist (+ 50 Armor)

I just find the numbers strange, as it seems to favor AP champs more than AD champs.

That's not to say there's no AD champs that can't melt an opponent ( and come to mind), but I feel that it's much easier to go with someone like , , , , even and destroy teams.

But, I'm no pro. What do you guys think?

23 Comments

EndlessSorcerer3/2/2015, 3:34:41 AM3 votes

AD is based around consistent damage, since autoattacks scale with AD. Even if all of an AD champions abilities are on cooldown, they can still deal considerable damage with their autoattacks. Autoattacks scale with attack speed, critical strike chance, critical strike damage, and armor penetration/reduction.

Basically, AD scales better for DPS because more stats can modify it. As an example, an ADC with Berserker Greaves, Infinity Edge, Phantom Dancer, Last Whisper, and Bloodthirster can easily autoattack 3 times per 2 seconds, dealing between 300 and 1200 or more per attack without any cooldown window. Armor items provide more resistances than MR items to handle this consistent damage.

AP champions are primarily based around ability cooldowns and burst damage. For many mages, if they fail to kill their target with their abilities, they don't have any real form of damage for at least 4-6 seconds. Magic damage abilities scale with magic penetration/reduction and CDR. In addition, all abilities have ratios, so mages don't really get the full value of AP items (get 120AP, then an ability with a 0.7 ratio only deals 84 additional damage), though they have multiple spells which helps make up for it. This in in contrast of the fact that AD always has a 1:1 ratio with autoattack damage.

AP typically improves utility spells (heals, shields, MS boosts, etc) and burst damage. However, there is a cooldown using which the mage doesn't deal much damage and is pretty defenseless. Because ability damage isn't as consistent as physical damage from autoattacks, they have trouble bursting down tanky targets (with high health and/or MR) and they can't keep dealing damage after their abilities are used.

If you Google the topic, you'll probably find a lot of discussions and explanations on the topic.

Talamare3/2/2015, 3:20:44 AM2 votes

Are you really saying that AD doesn't have scaling?

What about Attack Speed and Critical Strikes?

ForPortal3/2/2015, 3:28:06 AM1 votes

Yes, AP items give more AP than AD items give AD. However, AP operates on what is basically an arbitrary scale.

With AD, you have a clear reference point: X AD means your autoattack does X damage to a target with 0 armor. With AP, there is no such reference point. The only AP multipliers common to more than a single champion are Arcane Blade (5%), Lich Bane (50%), Hextech Gunblade (40%) and the like. You could halve all AP values and double all AP scaling and there would be no clear-cut ridiculousness like there is with armour ("My attacks always do double damage? Why?").

Talamare3/2/2015, 3:28:53 AM1 votes

I want to be clear that this is not a good build so don't do it in game

http://www.teryd.net/?app=buildcreator&b=Graves&l=18&i=177,68,190,68,68,190&r=5247,5247,5247,5247,5247,5247,5247,5246,5246,5306,5306,5306,5306,5306,5306,5306,5306,5306,5276,5276,5276,5276,5276,5276,5276,5276,5276,5336,5336,5336&m=4111;1,4112;4,4122;3,4132;1,4134;3,4142;3,4144;1,4151;1,4152;3,4162;1&s=6,4&t=0&

This build provides 3,000 DPS This means you will be doing 3,000 DAMAGE PER SECOND EVERY SINGLE SECOND, NONE STOP If the enemy has 30,000 Effective Health, it would literally only take you 10 seconds to kill him

There is no AP that even comes close to that! Even if you had a full team of AP, 5 men AP. You still would not match that

You just don't understand math and mechanics man

IcyPepper3/2/2015, 3:31:31 AM1 votes

Keep in mind that AD scales into late game.

At full build, adc's are the strongest in the game because of their sustained, rather than burst damage. AP scales best into the early game, which is why you'll often hear "don't focus the tank." Mages prefer to nuke adc's to delay their late game and keep them behind.

Sure, with 800 AP you could nuke someone and all your spells go on cooldown. With 400 ad and 2 autoattacks per second, with no cooldown, typically with sustain, you're going to be taking objectives and be able to 1v1 if you have to.

OhOkYea3/2/2015, 3:31:47 AM1 votes

Armor items are much worse. I can do AP/MR, AP/Armor, and even AD/MR. AD champs get no armor if they want to do damage. The AP/MR items aren't really that amazing but they come with other stats that make them extremely good.

So in other words. AD champs are favored since they don't have to worry about their AD enemies negating their damage and being a threat at the same time.

USG Morta3/3/2015, 3:35:17 AM1 votes

the scales are completely different you cant compare them. for starters, all champions have ad to start with and gain a certain amount per level whereas all champions start with 0 ap and gain 0 per level (without runes or masteries). AD is also multiplied by crits and attack speed as well as scaling 1:1 for autos but all of the ap ratios differ.

The Storm Dragon3/2/2015, 3:25:35 AM1 votes

The argument is that MR shuts down mages harder than armor kills AD champs, and the sustained damage is worth forcing AD champs to either build tanky or do damage instead of having both like item 3157 item 3027