The Assassin Rework is part of the reason why ADC's are so strong now

RlP K0BE·8/29/2017, 3:26:43 PM·58 votes·2,375 views

A large part of the Assassin Rework was delaying their damage so squishys could actually do something without insta-dying when the enemy Fizz looks at them. As a Zed player I would never try to 1v1 the enemy Irelia Jax Fiora unless they are severely behind because they just simply beat me for the most part (Rock>Scissors). Which brings us to the problem we have now. Assassins used to just simply destroy ADCs but they have had their damage output slowed which allows ADCs to right click them down and kill them and possibly even life steal the Assassin's damage and live. So in a way it's now Paper>Scissors.

Now I'm not saying this is the only reason why ADCs are running shit now but when you nerf their direct counter and even buff their items it's not hard to see why ADCs are one of, if not the strongest class in the game right now.

33 Comments

Salson8/29/2017, 4:13:48 PM29 votes

I'm probably one of the few people who likes the new assassin concept.

The problem that we are currently experiencing is that Assassins with counterplay get stoped by Enchanters with close to no counterplay when played defensively, while being right-clicked to death.

Then we got a pointless price decrease on Crit items, which caused the Marksman to spyke earlier.

DragonShea8/29/2017, 4:15:49 PM13 votes

{quoted}

A large part of the Assassin Rework was delaying their damage so squishys could actually do something without insta-dying when the enemy Fizz looks at them. As a Zed player I would never try to 1v1 the enemy Irelia Jax Fiora unless they are severely behind because they just simply beat me for the most part (Rock>Scissors). Which brings us to the problem we have now. Assassins used to just simply destroy ADCs but they have had their damage output slowed which allows ADCs to right click them down and kill them and possibly even life steal the Assassin's damage and live. So in a way it's now Paper>Scissors.

Now I'm not saying this is the only reason why ADCs are running shit now but when you nerf their direct counter and even buff their items it's not hard to see why ADCs are one of, if not the strongest class in the game right now.

The delay in damage should have been universal. Instead Sustained damage is now too strong.

doubleguac8/29/2017, 3:45:10 PM9 votes

ADCs used to have lots of counters in the mid game. Diving bruisers, burst mages, assassins.

None of those counters are really working at the moment. There's a ton of factors at play. Assassins/instagib burst have definitely been toned down or delayed. Also, there are just a TON of defensive options for ADCs that didn't exist a couple of seasons ago. Heart of the mountain, knight's vow, PD, Death's dance, locket, redemption, bond of stone, merc scimitar, GA... They've been adding them to the game slowly for a while now. There are just so many at the moment, it's pretty easy to stack a LOT of defense onto your ADC without the ADC having to really sacrifice any damage.

So, when you add all those defensive options onto a class that also has pretty cost efficient offensive options, and also gain additional defense by dealing damage (LS), you end up in the current situation. ADCs are surviving burst, blasting down divers in the mid game, and lifestealing through a lot of sustained DPS. So they are (IMO) too strong against all their classic counters.

EDIT: I see a lot of people complaining about marksmen DPS at the moment. I think marksman DPS has been really high for a long time. IMO, the reason marksmen feel so crazy right now is because of stacking defensive options. The class deals way more damage when they are harder to kill-- they survive longer and they don't have to position as defensively, so they get more shots in.

Yaskamasandwich8/29/2017, 6:56:03 PM6 votes

Huge wall of text incoming: Long story short Marksmen constantly received buffs ever since Season 5 when Devourer, Fiora rework, and Gangplank rework were released. This lead to patch 5.16 which all caused pressure to buff the Marksmen to out of control. Except Ezreal since he's entirely different from the other Marksmen.

It's a huge amount of small reasons since season 5 that bunched up to this big mistake that Marksmen are out of control right now. The game was great, fun, strategizing, and balanced when Cinderhulk was tweaked just right. Everything with the right skill level was viable, except for champions purposefully unviable like Yorick, Warwick, Poppy, etc.

Then Devourer, Fiora rework, Gangplank rework (GP is balanced now but was out of whack for a while after his rework there) were released. This was the first step in starting the power creep. Than the nail of the coffin infamous patch 5.16 happened. Bruiser were not doing so well so power was given to them to deal with all the Tanks and Marksmen. Juggernauts is a good concept really, immobile melees should be a threatening monster. The problem is that nothing was really solved. Juggernauts can destroy anyone but Marksmen because they have only damage and no utility to deal with them. Seeing how Marksmen are always necessary, anyone whom can't deal with them are useless, hence why immobile melee, and now Assassins are non-existent.

With the Juggernaut update also came binary class power spikes. All Tanky champions became mid game, all Assassins early game, most Mages became mid game only a certain few are late. Marksmen kept their dominance of late game, and now are just powerful at all stages of the game. Fun fact before that rule, only Marksmen had class power spike of owning the late game. However that was half the class problem, the other half is all their main damage is right clicking. That's why there were only 3 viable Marksmen all the time, they were all basically the same. Just go with the 3 with best numbers that counter each other. That's why you see the same champions a lot of times now. Less strategy and more on whom has the best numbers.

Then the Marksmen update happened which buffed them through the roof and caused a massive damage creep. Also gained defensive AD items like Phantom Dancer, etc. For a time there it was basically 5v5 of all Marksmen champions, even supports. So everyone else had to try and catch up and more power spike balance nightmares.

Also with the Marksmen update came Keystones. Thunderlord Decree was the number 1 keystones, however that doesn't ignore the fact that Marksmen have the option of 4 Keystones. While everyone else has 1 maybe some have 2 while some others don't even work well with any.

Then the Assassin update came. Great concept and idea, burst needs to be delayed. People have forgotten the days of LeBlanc comming from nowhere and erasing your squishes before anyone even blinked. Those were the stuff of absolute frustration, and the main reason she was #1 banned during season 5's balanced era. HOWEVER the delayed burst's execution was horrible. Yay that Assassin's burst was delayed, but no other class burst was delayed. Included Mages like Syndra whom can burst from safety, or of course Marksmen never got nerfed with their crit delayed burst.

Meanwhile Makrsmen got their hands on lethality, ruining it for Assassins like they did with Sterakk's Gage, Death's Dance, and such.

Then the final cherry on top, the Vanguard update. Tank items were nerfed, support items were buffed, basically all AD items got 10 damage, crit items price were reduced, and GA became and AD item. Another defensive AD item to add. This update was a Marksmen 2.0 update since all tanky champions are now buying support items to keep their Marksmen overlords Alive.

Edit: One major thing to also note, the Marksmen update also brought CDR on every item. This made Marksmen job 100x easier since everyone can blow their load on the front line, and the Marksmen cleans up with no worries. Before people had to worry about using their abilities too soon on tanky champions because then they would be out of fire power right after. Now that everyone has very short cooldown, no one needs to worry anymore. What took a Marksmen about 15 shots to take down a Tanky champions has been reduced down to about 3 since the front line is crippled. Then the one team collapses because of spammed abilities. Summoner's rift is more or less URF.

WoonStruck8/29/2017, 8:21:09 PM4 votes

Assassin update ironically makes assassins much worse vs ADCs while making them much better vs all other targets.

Sdars8/30/2017, 1:36:52 AM3 votes

To properly fix the game, it's not enough to get all champions to about the same power. It's imperative that you estabilish ideals for the game, and balance the game from there. One of those ideals should be that getting instagibbed out of nowhere without much counterplay isn't fun at all, and thus should be avoided.

Spacing out the damage instead of just frontloading it is then indeed the right call. The problem is what comes after: the balancing. The whole problem comes from the distinction between burst and dps, and how riot has messed with them via powercreep.

Let's say you're trying to see how long it takes to kill the enemy with 2 different champions. 1 is burst based and the other is dps based. Currently, adcs will easily kill a squichy in 2 seconds. Most often less, but let's assume 2 seconds. Remember, the advantage of dpsers is that they can keep going, so for dps and burst to be balanced, burst needs to take less time, because then it runs out of fuel. Assassins were often killing enemies in 0.5 seconds or less. Ok, there's a clear tradeoff, then. Now let's realize the first ideal and force the burst champion to wait 1.5 seconds: now they both take 2 seconds to kill the target, but the burst champ runs out of fuel and the dpser doesn't. The dpser now officially outclasses the burster. Sustained burst damage...

What needs to be done is obvious: lower damage across the board and then balance the game. If burst was too fast to react, making it slower is fine, but not without also making dps slower.

Besides that fundamental problem that came from the assassin rework, there's other factors, but they're meta related (due to some more bad balancing by rito), not fundamental like this.

FCJAAAAGOOOO8/29/2017, 8:59:02 PM3 votes

you could say...

that the Assassins...

have been Assassinated.

Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.

Those who live by the gun will stay meta, son. hehe xD

And A Real Hiero8/30/2017, 12:11:28 PM2 votes

Every major class rework was a direct nerf to the class except the adc rework.

Sleepcoma8/30/2017, 6:13:36 PM2 votes

assassins are so shit rn lmao riots idea of "delayed burst" wont work. if they want this idea to work they need to add "delayed dps" to adcs

Azureee8/29/2017, 3:32:18 PM2 votes

I'd like to see the adc mains conjure up some excuse about counterplay and whine about old LB, especially in this meta with shields and MR running rampant lmfao

Dengeden8/30/2017, 6:32:28 AM2 votes

Well if people didn't whine about assassins stomping their precious waveclearbots aka mages by killing them in-lane or roaming (bot lane) and if they hadn't continued to do so after the assassin update, we might not be having this problem.

Now I'm not saying this is the only reason why ADCs are running shit now but when you nerf their direct counter and even buff their items it's not hard to see why ADCs are one of, if not the strongest class in the game right now.

As always, no proof, ofc.

Kingslayër8/30/2017, 6:49:54 PM1 votes

You had me stop at zed player gg noob zed main. FML

EROTIC RAID BOSS8/29/2017, 8:05:19 PM1 votes

yeah sure it has nothing to do with the meta, as though a few patches ago adcs weren't so strong

Fear the Kayn8/29/2017, 10:14:41 PM1 votes

Fizz can still look at you an instakill you. He's the one I was really disappointed with in the assassin rework. I wanted him to require a lot more setup for his instakills.

Limrick8/29/2017, 11:13:01 PM1 votes

Enchanters and Support items are just too strong. It isn't only assassins, burst mages are weaker now too. Locket gives a 600 HP shield, Knight's Vow gives %damage reduction, Ardent gives them a ton of extra stats that they shouldn't have, even Windspeaker's is pretty strong, it makes the already insane shields even bigger, and also gives resistances on top of it.

xxxMadLionxxx8/29/2017, 11:37:18 PM1 votes

When the Cat is away the mice will play.

SpecterVonBaren8/30/2017, 12:57:04 AM1 votes

I think a bigger issue is that bot lane snowballs too easily. Remember when it used to be that if an ADC got a kill bot lane that they then had to make a choice, back and buy a lower tier AD item to get a slight advantage and replicate that kill, or stay and farm for a while longer and save up for a BF sword, during which the enemy ADC and support could end up turning the tables and the lane would even out again. Now its just, "Well I got a kill, time to b and get my BF sword!"

You'd have to consistently do well to get an advantage instead of just capitalizing on one mistake and then snowballing the rest of the game from there.

Mael bro8/30/2017, 10:40:08 AM1 votes

Honestly. I just stopped giving Riot any chance and moved to World of Warcraft (Which has tons of bullshit ridden in its PvP system) but is like a nice breath of fresh air.

Thefrostyviking8/30/2017, 3:05:26 PM1 votes

Good sir OP.

I wish to ask, which marksman exactly, is capable of beating you 1v1 when you are playing Fizz , Zed ,Talon or Khazix ?

I can think of Vayne Draven Tristana but that's like 3 champs outa 20........

If you are trying to sell me that Ashe can beat a assassin that's equal to her and both play well then i will object!

Elikain8/30/2017, 3:46:55 PM1 votes

The delay in the Assassin damage is really minimal, only allowing their targets to respond to the engage instead of instantly dying the moment an assassin decided to go for a kill. That 1 or so extra seconds isn't enough time for a Marksman to dump their "burst" onto you before they drop dead.

Assassin items made no difference. Only a handful Marksmen can use them (Jhin, MF primarily) while the rest are all crit, AD, AS oriented.

Zero Shingetsu8/29/2017, 3:30:20 PM1 votes

A sound theory, I'd say. Without that reliable burst to get rid of ADCs early, they're building up a lot more power to bring to bear against the enemy team at large.