Ziggs ideas for balance to bring him up to par in the mage world

Slinkyb·11/8/2015, 12:52:11 AM·5 votes·945 views

Hello!

I have been playing Ziggs a lot lately. I am a newer LOL player. I used to play DOTA 2 a lot so I know how this type of game goes. It seems after reading some older stuff that Ziggs got nerfed pretty hard over the seasons because in the right hands he could kite and do great damage to a team. The way he is now though he's just not a really viable option to even play. He can't really contribute much to his team as other mages in mid. I will explain my thoughts on this and not just say random stuff and not back it up somehow. I don't want Ziiggs to be OP again. NO! I would like for him to be able to be on par with other mids and balanced. He isn't balanced right now and is far under balanced.

So let me talk about the points.

-Slow. 325 starting walk speed is a bit low for him IMO. Other mages with teleport moves like Leblanc or skills that move around like Orianna make his movement speed even more of a hurdle to deal with. Again, I don't want Ziggs op just tuned up some in these departments to make him more viable in this age of LOL. It seems fair to me to speed him up since he doesn't have a leap or dash. Yes, I know Satchel charge knocks him away. Right now Satchel charges CD is so high you can't rely on it enough.

-Spell costs vs damage. This is really what is hindering him right now. Badly. You can not build Ziggs like other mages because you wont have enough mana to sustain in the lane and do your job. I literally have to build Rod of Ages or Archangels staff first with a Clarity summoner spell and mana potions just so I can stay in lane and push the lane properly. Even with this I still have to back way earlier than the other person because of Mana. People will probably say that I am not managing my mana properly. I would agree with this if the enemy mid couldn't push the lane and keep a lot of mana and still push me back into my tower if I try to conserve mana. I have already gone down that road. It doesn't work and I'm sure its due to the nerf to his passive. You will get out pushed because Ziggs mana costs on his abilities are really really high and get higher and higher as you level them. It's because of the nerfs to his damage I assume from previous seasons. You can't nerf the damage and keep the high mana costs. It's not logical to balancing. If those skills had higher damage then I would agree to the higher mana costs. Also, if I just sit back and try to conserve mana I am not going to hurt the other midlaner much if at all. Smart players know Ziggs abilities and will stay out of the range or to the side. While still having their way with the minions. I have to use a lot of mana to keep the lane equal or pushed and to hurt the enemy because ziggs is all skill shots. I am not trying to make them lower Ziggs mana cost to account for any of my bad skill shots I take. NO. I should be able to miss skills shots on enemy players some and not deplete my mana so bad. Now if i am missing a ton of them then of course that is fair. But even a few misplaced or misjudged skills really hit you hard in the mana department. You can't move them or get a second chance with them like some other mages skills. Again, it is about balance. Leblanc has no issues rushing into me and doing a lot of damage then TPing out right away and taking 0 damage from me. Even if i put minefield at my fieet and put a satchel charge down fast and use them both her damage is way higher than mine with her one ability against my two to counter her dash in. Eventually i get dwindled down to nothing. I shouldn't be forced to tower hug all day because another mage has a far superior skill than I do that isn't a skill shot.

-Satchel Charge This is the only escape Ziggs has. The cooldown on it is so unfair and unbalanced. It needs to get reduced to 10 seconds easily. With a max decrease in cooldown to like 8 seconds. Heck it could start off at 12. I could see that being fair. This skill does very little damage and no one can say a lower cd would make it do too much damage. I think with the low damage it puts out right now and a much lower cd it would be very balanced. Right now it just makes Ziggs too easy to get onto and stay onto him. He absolutely needs to this to be competitive. Leblancs are all 10 seconds or lower. Also, if this is lowered CD then you wouldn't have to worry about his run speed since Satchel charge would be a viable escape mechanic. Right now you can't rely on it due to the super high CD. Also, I feel that the charge should knock Ziggs farther away or it should knock the enemy away just as far as it does Ziggs. Right now it barel knocks back the enemy.

Hexplosive Minefield-

The mana cost for this is just too much and not enough reward for the cost. I would say to balance the cost out to make it invisible to enemy players. I mean its called a minefield. Mines are put under the ground and aren't visable. Make it so the Vision ward shows the minefield. Pretty simple one. They last for 10 seconds. This also balances this idea out. If it was permanent until you cast a new one then that would be fair as it stands right now, but its only 10 seconds. Reduce the CD to something more practical. Could be 16/15/13/11/10. Leblancs are all 10 seconds or lower. If you don't want to make them invisible then change the name to Hexplosive Bombfield.

Mega Inferno Bomb-

This one is kind of a toughy. My last game I sold my boots and went all damage items. Got to 968 AP. Now when I hit Tahm and someone else I did like 2750 damage. This game was over a hour long. So at that point it didn't really matter and I wasn't able to contribute as much as I would think a mage should. Q does around 800. Honestly I think I could handle the low damage this does early-mid game if Hexplosive Minefield and Satchel charges CDs got reduced to a practical amount. Right now they are at a point where it was a oh shit lets nerf this so hes not OP anymore and we will get back to him later. I feel that increasing the AOE size on this would be fair since there is a AOE indicator the enemies can see before it lands. Personally I think the AOE indicator should be taken out and leave the AOE size the way it is. You can HEAR and see it coming. That should be enough. Putting a AOE indicator down for a ultimate makes that ultimate that much less useful and effective and takes the skill out of it from the enemy players who are pretty much smacked in the face and told to move out of the way instead of having to pay attention and have some sort of skill involved. Garen gets a insta kill ult that is point and click and no skill whatsoever when a person is in the health range. So this shouldn't be a issue. Also, Pantheons Ult has a huge AOE size with the indicator. Which makes sense. Ziggs doesn't.

I have done a lot of research on how to build ziggs and play him because I don't just play a champion without knowing how they work and what to do. I always research everything first and then play. I have gotten a lot better with ziggs, but even higher skill doesn't compensate for high mana costs and high cd times on skills. Not when other mages have way lower cds, more damage, more escapes or skills that stun and damage at the same time and such. Just want to see my favorite mage become a viable pick against all the top tier mages in the game. I don't want him being OP or going crazy. Again, Balance! I think Ziggs being all skill shots is a huge step in the right direction for all champions. I would hope one day all champions have nothing, but skill shots like Ziggs does to make it about skill and not just point and click gameplay. I think this is why I love Ziggs so much. It is so much more rewarding to play him and do well because he is all skill shots and not easy in the least. Nothing about him is easy like it is on other mages. I am sure others will argue that point, but I am not here to get flamed, but to bring this stuff to light in hopes these ideas could help balance a fun and skillful champion.

Thanks for reading all this if you have! All this is my opinion and I do not claim to be a expert or pro in the least.

15 Comments

Craft Zeppelin11/8/2015, 3:50:45 AM4 votes

The main problem was in 2014 when the poke meta was a thing, the game became so boring even the pros complained

Hayaishi211/8/2015, 1:07:04 AM4 votes

IMO his bombs need their hitbox adjusted.

The amount of times the bombs bounce over someone when it clearly should've hit is frustrating for a full skillshot champion.

Casri11/8/2015, 1:41:06 AM3 votes

I don't think Ziggs is too bad honestly, he just isn't anything special. He's generally outclassed by other long-range poke mages like Lux, Xerath and Vel'Koz. This is mainly because Ziggs was hugely popular during Season 3 and some of Season 4. He had several compensatory nerfs to bring him down a notch such as: Movespeed 330 --> 325 as well as Q hitbox adjustment (it was kind of stupid before this) and an ult cooldown increase.

He still has his niche though - he's particularly good when it comes to wave clear, frequency of poke (low Q cooldown) and pushing down turrets with his passive.

Honestly, comparing Ziggs to LeBlanc is pointless because they fill completely different roles. Ziggs is a long ranged AoE poke mage, LeBlanc is a bursty, mobile assassin. Ziggs isn't supposed to be mobile and for the record, his Satchel Charge is a way better escape/defensive tool than the majority of mages have.

If you're struggling with mana, just buy item 3174 . This item is basically core on Ziggs (even vs AD champions I would say), you WILL run out of mana without it, that's just how the champion is.

Like I said earlier, if you're finding Ziggs underwhelming but you enjoy his playstyle, try out Lux, Vel'Koz and Xerath - they play similarly and Lux/Vel'Koz in particular are very strong right now.

MisterHealYoGirl11/8/2015, 1:09:11 AM3 votes

Ziggs is fine right now. You seem to be disappointed that he's less mobile than LeBlanc and has longer cooldowns, and that's true. Ziggs is an immobile poke mage, not an assassin. He doesn't need that kind of mobility to be strong. He has a smaller ult radius than Pantheon; his ult also does way more damage, has a shorter cooldown at all levels, and has a shorter delay. One champion can't bring everything to the table; Ziggs has some strengths and some weaknesses. He's healthy, in other words.

xJLx MCHammer11/8/2015, 2:48:34 AM3 votes

Q needs hit box adjusted. It's awful

Bonipherus11/8/2015, 6:13:54 AM1 votes

Basically Ziggs falls within a category of champions who stay super long range and poke from safety. The three champions who best represent this category are Ziggs, Lux, and Xerath. Lux provides the most utility of the three, Xerath is the most all-round i suppose, and Ziggs has the most zone control and safety. If you want to buff Ziggs you have to also take away his safety. His satchel charge will need changed to where it is more beneficial to use it offensively instead of a skill that you hold onto until you need to escape. Basically it's best when balancing champions to reinforce their strengths and expose their weaknesses.

If it were up to me I'd readjust the blast radius on his Q so it will have better hit detection but at the same time emphasize the bouncing of his bombs which would allow champions to sneak under them. If you add more counter play to his Q then you can buff it's damage. His W is what needs the most changed though. Currently it will usually always be a better option to use this ability on yourself as an escape rather than as some kind of zoning/enemy displacing skill. I'd readjust his passive to something else. Something off the top of my head would be... Call it... hexplosive ingredients. Each of Zigg's abilities contain different explosive chemicals. When combined together a new explosion will trigger in the vicinity after 0.5 seconds dealing damage to surrounding targets. I think that having a passive like this will create more choices for Ziggs (as well as separate the good Ziggs players from the great). Do you spread your abilities out and create more threats and zone control or do you set up an explosive bunker that will incinerate anyone unlucky enough to get caught by all your bombs?

SICKNÈSS11/8/2015, 6:28:52 AM1 votes

Fk Ziggs and all the low-cd AoE poke champs. I remember back in the day when Nidalee was cancer in midlane and everyone was whining about her. But now you got the same thing with Viktor/Ziggs/Xerath and those guys waveclear like crazy and their pokes aren't single-target. There's no counter-play to mages like that. Dodge their poke, you say? Well, fk they just spam those all the time, you're bound to get hit by one of those eventually. I hate how Riot keeps telling us how they hate un-interactive gameplay, yet the current midlane meta is basically that and has been for A WHILE. I realize this may sound like a rant, but it's not. I've simply been playing LoL since season 1 and I'm not sure why Riot hasn't addressed that issue. Because back in the day CDR was a hard stat to get so all the pokey champs that got released weren't as spammy and it was alright. But now, it's like..."I MUST COUNTER THE POKE WITH ASSASSIN", but assassins got nerfed a while ago, so you're either stuck with a subpar pick or you simply have to join the spam-train. Midlane's been very boring for the past year. I apologize if I've offended anyone, just my thoughts on the matter.

RisenDarkKnight11/8/2015, 6:35:16 AM1 votes

While I agree Ziggs needs a buff, his mana costs are actually really low. His q only costs 50-70 mana . Lux e costs 70-130 mana and does less damage (but in a bigger aoe). Xerath q costs 80-120 mana. His mana costs are relatively low compared to his 2 competitors. For a buff I suggest reverting the nerf to the size of his q they made a while ago. His q is so small now it is difficult to hit small champions with reliably.

Erockandroll11/8/2015, 1:03:31 AM1 votes

If I recalled correctly, his reliability in his bombs took a massive hit, because Riot really didn't want to touch either his offensive power or Defensive power. But naturally his Defenses took a massive hit with the new Baron buff as well as the new Banner off command. Which heavily limited his ability to stall out the game. (because his wave clear was god like. ) and with his power spread about his many AoE spells, he has less single target damage than most of the other poke champs. Top that with mana regen nerfs since last pre season, and you have yourself a champ that doesn't fit in any niche.

I think what Ziggs needs is a bit more offensive power, and perhaps a bit of that reliability returned into his kit.

Rıots Bad Client11/8/2015, 8:20:19 AM1 votes

I really wanted ziggs things deal less damage, but cost much less.

So he can have a fun lil mech.

like Q resets if every bomb is blown from E E resets if W its more than 2 are hit. R is reset if Q kills an enemy W resets if R ... I dunno.

but I mean it would be really cool watching this bomb maniac be more of a BOMB maniac.

TO ME- hes really dull and compares to much to Xerath, and Velkoz(The long range mage)

Slinkyb11/8/2015, 1:27:20 AM1 votes

Have to disagree with you VeniVidiVelcro. His poke isn't on par with the damage output of other mages otherwise I would agree with that. You give and take, but his lower damage with way higher CD makes him underpar. His ult only does more damage once you get a lot of items. I have ulted my brains out on ziggs and only get kills when the enemy is on low health. It's nothing that is going to half a enemies health ever. Not trying to get everything on the table. Just want him to be viable against these other mages who have their stuff at a great point right now and bring all the great stuff to the table while other mages like Ziggs get left behind in the dust because he was nerfed and never re-looked at to fit in the current meta or game.

TeCoolMage11/8/2015, 2:28:20 AM1 votes

I rarely run out of mana as Ziggs as I buy Athene's then farm past leaning phase. His mana costs honestly aren't that large and this is coming from a Xerath-Anivia-Malzahar main who rarely wastes all his mana, just don't waste your abilities for wave clear and you'll be fine. If LeBlanc shoves you under lane, she's wasting her mana even more than you are and you should take action first to punish her.

Also, Xerath's ulti is much harder to use and his escape is worse, which is what stops him from being OP, Satchel Charge with max CDR is like 10 seconds late game anyway, early on you should be safe anyway.

He does fit a niche, and that's pushing really fast and being the super far back line, but the ADC and Tank (these guys are the main pushing roles) are getting buffed so his niche simply does not fit the meta.

Though he does deserve a few QOL changes

SaltyKracka11/8/2015, 4:08:47 AM1 votes

I might see them buffing his passive a bit, but when Ziggs was both popular and powerful, shit just didn't end.

Sohleks11/8/2015, 4:30:57 AM1 votes

I agree Ziggs isn't up to par. Comparing him to LB is a bit odd though.

Still Lux Ziggs Varus is Velkoz outclassed Azir

His last nerf shrinking the size of Q hitbox was his gigantic fall off point. Now I don't think he can possibly hit Q on decent mage players without blowing his load to lead em into some damage oom'ing Ziggs or other factors controlling enemies. Can only farm in these matchups. Against melee he can possibly frustrate some of them by Q'ing those near their creeps (the aoe detonation makes it much easier), however these types of champions can be lethal to Ziggs.