Devs' misconception on the reworked tank items?

SpiderTeo·5/5/2017, 7:37:01 AM·23 votes·1,545 views

7.9 patch seems to be a messy patch, to say the least, because the dramatic changes to several popular items more than likely require players to overhaul their tank builds, which is made even more difficult by the removal of the legacy client and its ability to edit custom item sets.

Despite that nonsense of removing a key QoL tool, the item changes have me further perplexed.

The developers seem to want to make tanks have a healthy approach to their item builds. That's a legitimate rationale, their methods have me scratching my head. I can understand shifting stats from health into resistances, but rather than just stop there, they gut out core tank items to make them more "carry friendly." When buying items, there's usually a trade off between competing stats. Should I invest in more damage, or could I get away with what I already have and build some defense instead? But these new durability item adjustments give carry players the best of both worlds while weakening tanks overall by removing access to some of the better tanks items available.

The developers' rationale, it seems, is that carries are at too much risk to cc and burst damage. So to compensate, they thought gutting Banshee's Veil and Guardian Angel's main defensive stats so they are more "carry friendly" without greatly compromising their potential damage output. The devs feels that carries would best benefit from an extra spell shield and self-rez effect, as long as they didn't take much of a hit to their damage output. But by making carries harder to kill, they also made tanks easier to kill at the same time. As a tank, I want to be able to survive as long as possible, so I could mitigate as much damage to the rest of the team as possible. This is accomplished with varying combinations of cc, pulling aggro (or "peeling" for the squishies), or just simply playing the meatshield. If the tank can survive that much longer, that usually translates to more time for the carries to dish out the damage. That spell shield might be useful to keep the carry alive, but that same spell shield can enable a tank to initiate better engagements, force the enemy to prioritize spells, and prevent cc-layering on the squishies themselves, in addition to staying alive longer.

Instead, tanks have reworked items that force them to choose between straight-up defense stats without the formerly accompanying unique effects or those unique effects with lower defense stats (plus throwaway stats that may or many not be useful in any given game).

Carries already have enough items for protection without overly compromising their damage-dealing roles. If they want more, then it shoudl come at a trade off, and not one at the expense of tanks. And this doesn't even take into consideration all the "support" items that already provide similar protection that carries can still get for themselves.

23 Comments

Michael7025/5/2017, 9:43:07 AM19 votes

Riot always does the exact opposite of their publicized intent. "We want people to use more summoner spells. People always use the same summoner spells." and then they remove half the summoner spells

ShadowParker5/5/2017, 3:29:38 PM3 votes

As if a lot of tanks used banshees for the spellshield. Most tanks bought that item for the MR because the only other tank option was Spirit Visage. Having abyssal as a tank item is far better, especially with a lot of tanks scaling with ap.

The GA change I disagree with but the banshees change was smart imo.

OtterlyLost5/5/2017, 7:41:07 AM3 votes

... What core tank items were gutted? Banshee's? It was changed to be for mages but tanks were given Abyssal as compensation and that change only hurts a handful of AD tanks in the long run. They changed GA because having to kill a 4k health Zac three times is fucking stupid. What other item did they change/gut? I know they did some sprucing on Bami Cinder and its affiliates but I was pretty sure those were buffs.

Jerry SeinfeId5/5/2017, 4:34:57 PM2 votes

Who actually buys banshees for the spellshield. it's incredibly easy to pop and only helps hard engage champs if they didn't get poked before.

abyssal as it was before made little sense, the aura isn't big enough for someone like lux. it's better on battlemages/aptanks that need to get in the fight. thus giving it hp makes sense, i think this will be amazing on Singed, swain, Ryze, Vlad, cho, etc. but it will also be good for tanks like leona/Naut in certain situations as they are most likely gonna be applying it to the most enemies.

Banshees right now give Mages an answer to other mages, like zhonyas defends them from ad's and Assassins.

GA is now the first AD armor item. while it's probably just a circlejerk i think it's fine. ADC's can now actually survive an assassin shitting on them? god, how awfull why do they get this special treatment???!!!??? Gimme an ad zhonyas and you can have the pure resists GA back. It's just as good as zhonyas except it only activates on death, this makes it easier to use but also gives it less flexibility. also COOLDOWN. Will it get abused? fuck yes, everything in this game gets abused. yes, it's gonna be a bitch to deal with Zed/riven twice but they could already do that if they wanted. i honestly saw this item more on bruisers/divers than actual tanks. i've personally played games as talon where i got it as second item cuz while I, in lane, was ahead but my team wasn't. Besides Gargoyle's pretty much does the same in regards to keeping you alive.

Lugg5/5/2017, 9:35:46 PM2 votes

There's no other way to put it, this patch was a pretty epic fail. It's going to take them at least a year to re-balance items and champs now.

GULAG 4 U5/5/2017, 8:14:58 PM1 votes

The gold value lost in losing health and gaining armor/mr probably wasn't enough. The problem with high armor/mr with low health is they suck against the other type of damage, which in terms damages the tank. So the gold value lost from health and gained through more armor shouldn't break even, it should gain more; armor items are now significantly worse at dealing with magic damage. So why did they gain minimal armor points?

Lucky Moniker5/5/2017, 9:33:05 PM1 votes

Also notice that all of the %armor shred items got nerfed as well as the armor values increasing. Overall this is a buff to tank vs carry, But yes total HP is a bit lower

SpiderTeo5/7/2017, 10:35:36 PM1 votes

A lot people here are under the preconception that tanks don't buy Banshee's Veil pre 7.9, stating that the spell shield is not worth it for tanks. One made the exception that it would only be useful for tanks going for the hard engages. And that's a valid statement. But think about that: if the tank is not going for the hard engage, then who is?

The old Banshee's Veil had better MR than the Spirit Visage. That can't be argued. The extra 15 MR was arguably a better trade off for the 200 health in a game where percentile damage dealing has become more and more common. Spirit Visage was most useful for tanks who had a strong healing component to their kits, whereas Banshee's Veil benefited tanks who used shields mechanics instead. Of course, getting one item over the other could also depend on a player's team comp as well. A tank would get more out of a Spirit Visage with a heal-bot support like Soraka, as opposed to with a shield specialist like Karma.

Venomar5/5/2017, 11:05:19 AM1 votes

Changed too much at one time imo, this is more dramatic than the preseason update tbh.