Why Rengar and Riven are poorly designed champions.

sentosa·7/28/2019, 9:43:02 PM·3 votes·1,642 views

Riot should be designing champions that fit the following criteria: fun to play, not incredibly difficult to balance (looking at you Ryze), and most importantly valid counterplay by champion design.

-fun to play

Champions should, at some level, appeal to a certain audience. There are champions of different roles, lores, and playstyles that define them. For example, players who are drawn towards assassins may find champions like Katarina and Talon fun to play. All champions in league should be both unique and fun in there own special way.

-Not incredibly difficult to balance

Ryze has been through an insane number of reworks simply because of his base champion design. His numbers constantly need tweaking because he is a feast-or-famine champion, meaning that either he is incredibly overpowered or crushingly underpowered.

Champions should be strong if played correctly. I find that by herself, Morgana's W is extemely powerful as a waveclearing and laning tool because of its immense damage. I think her W needs a nerf... but that's not what I'm here to talk about. Let's get into the core of this thread:

-There should be valid counterplay by champion design

This means that there should not be a champion where the only way to defeat it is by outplaying them, since this creates an immense skill requirement.

TWO CHAMPIONS WHO DO NOT HAVE COUNTERPLAY: Riven and Rengar

Riven has insane damage, CC, and mobility, the "tri-force" that makes a good Riven an unstoppable beast. Add in a Death's Dance for some lifesteal/healing and boom; Riven is a broken champion.

There is no counterplay to Riven other than to hope that she messes up her comboes.

Rengar is a completely bogus champion simply because he can use 4 abilities in less than a second and burst you in under a second. Once he uses his ultimate and you (as a squishy) have the indicator above your character, you can count your blessings and say hello to a 1950's black-and-white movie of watching your team get decimated. The only valid counterplay I can think of in relation to Rengar are items: GA and Zhonya's.

TL;DR: Riven and Rengar are poorly designed champions that need to be revisited/reworked to provide a funner experience for both players playing rengar, and playing against rengar.

16 Comments

Wild Geese7/29/2019, 4:31:05 AM2 votes

Riven badly designed? Can't say I could agree less with that stament. We got a design which is both innovative and unique, the design has been attempted to be emulated by many games in the genre and used as a template for many future champions by Riot themselves. Riven is one of the very keystone champions which made League unique and not just a Dota clone. She is one of the very original champions to be OTP'ed by many in this game: speaking volumes to her being fun and involved to play.

She wasn't designed at a time that Riot was considering Counterplay, back then Annie didn't have a stun meter for the enemy to see, Sion and Taric has point and click stuns. The design was about every champion having their own strengths. Even when Riot did start to think about counterplay: they made champions whose abilities were easier to read and dodge: which Riven already had anyway. Counterplay is not an issue with design especially Riven.

They haven't even had to change her much for 8 years aside some numbers shifts, and more recently making the abilities easier to see addressing any remaining issues with modern standards of clarity. Design and balance shouldn't be confused.

zenkai45117/28/2019, 10:30:55 PM1 votes

Are you saying that vision has no effect on Rengar? Because having good vision and ward placements is one of Rengars biggest counters. He lives on catching you by surprise, if he can’t do that he essentially becomes an Assassin that when his ult is down is completely worthless.

WoonStruck7/28/2019, 11:46:03 PM1 votes

You forgot Aatrox the Riven clone.

concert clown7/29/2019, 2:44:35 AM1 votes

Look man, just because your main is half of a champion doesn't mean you have to take it out on Rengar and Riven.

Infernape7/29/2019, 6:17:05 AM1 votes

Riven is a "poorly" designed champion simply because her mechanics are actually bugs. :P