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The Unpopular Opinion - Why I like the AP item changes

Asyde·4/7/2016, 8:33:07 PM·200 votes·7,303 views

Everyone is so focused on the raw numbers. AP item reductions, removing spellvamp, removing/shifting MP5 on items. I think most people are missing the big picture here of what RIOT is trying to do.

Current AP casters: Blow shit up (build as much AP as possible), Small mana pools yet relies heavily on poke (builds MP5 to compensate), limited survivability from dives (relies heavily on current mana and CDR available), terrible (and expensive) build paths, terrible CDR options, relies HEAVILY on a "situational" defense item (zhonyas) to bail them out of dives and ganks because lack raw stats CDR and mobility options.

**RIOTs Vision: ** Still blow shit up (slightly less AP), Huge mana pools (more abilities when you need them), Much more survivability during ganks and skirmishes with health increases and catalyst health/mana generation, reduced costs on most items, smoother and better overall build paths, CDR built into more core items, mobility options and CC active items, not as much need to rely so heavily on Zhonyas but instead offers more CDR to give you more abilities while you wait on the cooldown.

This is classic case of "Robbing Peter to pay Paul". They've take a small amount of power out of your actual raw damage output (AP) and reliance on Zhonyas to put a lot into your build paths & costs, overall survivability, cooldown reduction, and given you a lot more mana to cast your spells with without even increasing mana costs on spells. This not only helps with certain champion weaknesses, but creates a lot of build-path variety that is sorely lacking right now.

I really think they've given you guys everything you've been asking for (ways to compete in lane, mana options, better items, more cdr etc..)

Is it just me or does this seem like a massive buff to me? It's easy to look at each item on paper individually and call it a huge nerf, but when you look at the overall picture I think AP Casters will be a hell of a lot tougher to take down in lane and have more options to counterplay you... Zhonyas is used as a bandaid (albeit a very helpful one) for the real issues. RIOT is focusing on the real issues rather than doubling down on the bandaids.

Just my 2 cents...

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

EDIT: WOW, Thank you all for the replies. I'm grateful you've all been so respectful and taken the time to discuss this with me! I'll do my best to replay to as many as I can!

210 Comments

Kitten of Evil4/7/2016, 8:48:50 PM83 votes

Mage players who like to spam skills to either poke or waveclear will hate these changes, because a higher max mana pool doesn't help at all once you're OOM.

I think the problem is that Riot doesn't want mages to "never run out of mana", but a whole class of champions that just got nice itemization buffs (ADCs) never run out of ammunition. Similarly, energy-based champions have a hard time running out of energy (Zed being a particular offender) because they can recover it.

If mage spells are meant to be more restricted than ADC autoattacks or AD caster skills, they should be much more impactful, and currently they aren't always.

Durfain4/7/2016, 10:13:54 PM37 votes

Still blow shit up

No. In the proposed changes, AP on major items is being nerfed across the board. Mages will have around 70 AP less than with current builds if these changes go through.

Huge mana pools (more abilities when you need them)

Huge mana pools? RoA is being nerfed to only give 400 mana. Morello is being changed to give 400 mana. In what world does 400 mana constitute a "huge mana pool"? By contrast, at level 18, morellos currently regens 400 mana in about one minute. So this is clearly a nerf.

Much more survivability during ganks and skirmishes with health increases and catalyst health/mana generation

Did you actually run the numbers here? Because I did. It's nowhere near enough to make a difference. Mages should not be being rewarded for taking damage. Tanks should be rewarded for taking damage. RoA is now a tank item. Or at the very best a tanky mage item (Swain? Singed?).

reduced costs on most items

Yes, because they've been nerfed across the board. Wow morellos is so cheap now! Look at it! Yes, that's because it now gives fuck all in terms of sustain.

smoother and better overall build paths

You might be right here and honestly this is one thing that Riot really need to look into. AD itemization is great (in terms of build paths) and most of their shit builds out of longswords.

CDR built into more core items

This is another change I quite like. I do actually like their current iteration of Zhonya's (minus the odd cooldown increase). I just dislike their nerfs to mana regen. However, I also do understand others who may be annoyed by this change.

not as much need to rely so heavily on Zhonyas but instead offers more CDR to give you more abilities while you wait on the cooldown

What do you mean here? No need to rely on it? Uhh mages are just going to be as fucked by AD assassins as they were before this incoming rework. It's going to be just as needed as before. The increase in the item active hugely hurts mages. Meanwhile AD champions get an anti-MR shield that pops PASSIVELY (no skill required) on a 90 second CD.

Lazypeon1004/7/2016, 8:38:06 PM29 votes

I honestly don't think a lot of people are giving it a chance yet. People are basically declaring the sky is falling before anything has happened yet with changes we knew would be coming since the start of the year.

ShinigamiKazuki4/7/2016, 8:51:58 PM21 votes

I'm only concerned about Athenes and Rod Of Ages being nerfed. Rod Of Ages is a good item since it gives amazing powerful stats in one cheap item.

The fact that it has lost AP and Mana is concerning.

However, I am all for the new Tear Of The Goddess passive that gives 25% Mana back instead of just increasing Mana Regen by 25% so I can finally buy the item and not feel like a waste of time other than trying to stack it needlessly.

The removal of Spell Vamp, honestly? Doesn't fucking matter. Only Akali (Maybe Katarina and Morgana) and Vlad ever bought Spell vamp mainly cause their abilities had some sort of way to give health, Vlad's skills and Akali's passive. Now the new Hextech items will give them a good amount of extra damage in lane while also giving other champions like Vel'Koz a chance to use it.

Catalyst change is a bit stupid in my opinion but again, it could be good when you get auto'd or shuriken'd by Zed which then gives you health(Or mana?) and return fire for mana(Or Health?) It could be good and it could be horribly bad.

Most of the changes ON PAPER looks AWFUL, but then in-game where it counts it could be OP AF. So, again, I'll reserve judgement for when it goes through on LIVE not PBE.

It's kinda like movies, people think "Oh man bad casting call" but the movie comes out and you're like "WOW AMAZING CASTING!" Similar Concept.

Have faith. And reserve judgement for when this stuff hits live NOT PBE the place where numbers are meaningless if the item is busted, or the item itself won't even come out.

YumaS2Astral4/7/2016, 8:42:09 PM16 votes

I actually like the changes to Zhonya. People are complaining that Zhonya lost AP, but the AP wasn't the main reason to buy Zhonya to begin with. You would buy it for its active, just like you buy Maw of Malmortius for its passive, not for its stats.

The fact that it offers cooldown reduction, is cheaper, has a better buildpath, are all a very good change on my opinion. Laning against Zed will be much easier.

Solaxo4/8/2016, 1:31:08 PM7 votes

Meanwhile ADCs are still strong as hell without any sacrifices being made. Sorry OP, your arguments are void

The Yetii Rider4/8/2016, 12:18:39 PM7 votes

Additional CDR is BAD without mana regen. It means you're going to go oom faster if you spam, and if you don't spam then your abilities would come off CD at their normal time anyway.

Additionally, the items that didn't get changed at all are troubling. Deathcap, for example, is now weaker because it gives less AP to anyone who builds Zhonya's. But Deathcap still costs 3800 gold and requires you to hold 1700 gold if you only have 2 slots available.

The RoA change is absolutely disgusting. You're losing 400 mana (700 gold) and 20 AP (435 gold) for a 500 gold discount, AND it's not clear from the post whether you even keep the new Eternity passive or not. RoA was originally changed to give more AP and mana in exchange for less health. Now it gives less health AND less mana for 20 more AP.

500 Health, 400 mana, 100 AP, and you have to sit on it for 10 minutes. Why would anyone buy this over Rylai's?

Scramrail4/8/2016, 3:14:04 PM6 votes

One of the major concerns I have is that all the talk ive seen (which is supported by the changes) is that mages are being hit with trade offs; In essence, mages don't get to have their cake and eat it too. On the other hand, AD champions not only get to have their cake and eat it too, they can take the mages cake and eat that as well.

As an example, AD champions have access to three fantastic items that provide them with damage, sustain, and survivability all rolled together, for relatively cheap costs. Im talking of course about item 3156 , item 3053, and item 3139 . These items, which are almost all core on most AD champions at the moment, are the pinnacle of "having your cake and eating it too".

A casual glance at the updated mage itemization shows that mages need to decide between survival, damage, and utility, while also dealing with an almost across the board nerf to total damage at full build regardless. Why do mages need to make trade offs with their decisions when AD champions don't? AD champions are already inherently better off than mages because most of them don't have a resource to worry about managing, and/or have extremely low cooldowns on their abilities, and/or are so slippery they can make monumental mistakes and still get out alive.

The loss of mana regen is going to seriously hurt mages unless riot goes around and re-evaluates the mana costs on the majority of mage abilities while also increasing the mana given by some of their items by a few hundred. The problem with replacing mana regen with flat mana is that once you use it, you no longer get it back in a reasonable time frame. Missing a spell is going to be extremely punishing to mages in this environment, and considering most poke spells are skill-shots, and considering mobility has never been higher across the board thanks to the prominence of item 3009 as well as items like item 3147 , item 3142 , item 3285 and Runic Echoes in the jungle, things really aren't looking good for mages with this update.

Big Lincoln4/7/2016, 9:26:41 PM2 votes

It's a good start, but it's still just a start.

Since I agree with most of what you've listed as being a good thing, let me just list the few criticisms I have so far

item 3010 and its upgrades' new passive; you get mana for taking damage, and health for spending mana. It's.. kind of weird, to me. This feels more like it's shifting these items to tankier folk like Singed and maybe a few straight-up tanks who don't mind investing into RoA or Righteous Glory. Less for mages directly, especially with the nerfs to item 3027 's overall stats, but I can see a few champions making good use of it. The loss of its stacking mana makes it seem a little.. contrary to the point of the item changes.

item 3174 just doesn't have enough AP, in my opinion. Otherwise, it's alright, I guess. Good niche for shield mages.