Rakan and Xayah shouldn't be strictly stronger with each other

F53710·4/5/2017, 12:04:52 AM·17 votes·5,663 views

For the most part, everyone seems to be ok about this issue but to me this is lazy and poor game design. Their kits should be synergistic with each other, not be stronger just because they're in the same game with each other. This goes against so many of Riot's design philosophies, and if they are willing to have poor design like this, then they're willing to continue putting in poor gameplay designs. They removed random dodge for a reason, because it was bad game design. They removed phage slow, because it was problematic gameplay. Now they're introducing what is so obviously bad game design, even though they know it's poor game design and goes against their past actions, which is unfathomable to me.

44 Comments

Arcane Azmadi4/5/2017, 12:27:40 AM11 votes

Absolutely; this is EXACTLY what I came here to say. This is a really, REALLY dumb idea. They have to be designed so that they're balanced when played together; as a result, this means when they're NOT played together they automatically become undertuned- Rakan's E doesn't get double range when dashing to his lane partner, and he doesn't get the benefits of Xayah's W (effectively an entire free skill for him!). These are NOT small differences.

There are only 2 possible scenarios here: a) you either have to play them together and they're balanced because they're crap when NOT played together; or b) they're fine when played with other champions, but obviously OP when played together. When you add in the fact that the former case is obviously the one Riot will err towards, meaning you'll effectively be able to ban both of them just by banning one of them, they're going to have absolutely NO presence in competitive play whatsoever.

For chrissakes, Riot KNOW how fine balance is in this game! Champions have gone from OP to unplayable with the tiniest of changes! How can they possibly fail to see what's wrong with this?! And since this element is irrevocably intertwined with the core design of the champions and Riot never reverse course on ANYTHING once they've revealed it, they can never actually fix it now! After a period of OPness, they're going to end up being completely useless (because Riot would always prefer champions to be underpowered rather than overpowered) until they eventually get slated for a complete remake.

Mecha MaIphite4/5/2017, 12:17:59 AM9 votes

It just feels like they're trying to inject this artificial synergy into their kits to make sure they work well with each other, rather than specifically designing them to do so.

paisy4/5/2017, 12:17:05 AM9 votes

They're small buffs so I don't see the big deal

Raoul4/5/2017, 12:45:11 AM4 votes

They both have like ONE ability that does one extra thing when together...

Rákãñ4/5/2017, 12:12:22 AM4 votes

They can manage by without the other perfectly OK. They just get added benefits really. Like Rakan can leap to Xayah farther away and Xayah can share her W with Rakan. And they can proc each other's ms effect on their W. Not to mention they can share the same recall.

Zankren4/5/2017, 12:36:47 AM3 votes

Yea, sharing Xayah's W is the big one for me. If that was a part of her kit, that she could share her W with any ally that's fine. But otherwise the two are either OP together, okay apart, or okay together, weak apart.

I like the idea of making characters that interact together. Say when Rakan jumps to Xayah the INTERACTION is unique, but the skill itself should be the same as when jumping to every other champ.

ChaddyFantome4/5/2017, 1:20:24 AM3 votes

No. You are completely correct and I echoed the same issue with a friend of mine as well. There will basically never be a justifiable reason to not pick them together unless another marksman/support is just so broken at the moment that it makes their in kit synergy irrelevant.

The Bardic Gay4/5/2017, 3:03:45 AM3 votes

I do think that Deadly plumage applying the entirety of it's effects on Rakan is a bit much, I say either give him the attack speed or the bonus damage, but not both, preferably the attack speed.

Rakan having bonus range on his E if it targets Xayah is something I don't have much of a problem with.

Either way, it's not like they can't just shave off this power if it becomes apparent their synergy leaves them overdependent.

FiddlesOnTheRoof4/5/2017, 4:20:18 PM2 votes

Conceptually, I love it. But Riot has a difficult time balancing JUST champions and items, much less adding the third variable. I am beyond excited for these two champions, and will wait to reserve judgement on their unique synergy, but I do agree that the decision was curious.

Zankren4/5/2017, 12:43:59 AM2 votes

That was one of the options. They can be balanced when apart, making them overtuned together. Or they can be balanced when played together, making them weak separately.

6Sfool4/5/2017, 3:04:05 AM2 votes

I think it creates a nice dynamic. Instead of having traditional synergy, they have an offbeat interaction that makes you have to treat each one differently than you would had they been with a different partner. When you see a Leona, you treat her as the same Leona whether there's a Sivir or a Mordekaiser behind her. But with these 2, the entire dynamic of the lane changes. Hopefully they don't try to make this a common thing, but it's one of the things that makes them unique. The only drawback is if the interaction between them is much stronger than anticipated and they end up balanced around each other.

VoraciousX4/5/2017, 3:42:13 AM2 votes

Oh please, the only thing that could even slightly be considered extremely strong on the synergy is their shared recall. Xayah can continue pelting the enemy and then go into Rakan's recall at the last second, same with Rakan, except he can dash to her at the last second. Even then it's not so big a deal that it's game breaking or going to set either of them over the edge. The same with their ability synergies. It's not going to make them OP together and neither of the ability synergies is going to have that much more of an effect than when played with any other marksman/support.

Lancerblader4/5/2017, 12:45:23 PM2 votes

while its certainly interesting to see i and i can think of some interesting plays to do with their synergy a different problem comes to mind with implementing it like this. because when balancing these 2 champs they will have to take into consideration whether they are together or not. so potentially they could both be very good champs when it comes to their stats like damage, ratios, cd, etc but then they get the extra power on top of that because they are on the same team.

or they are good as a pair but when only one of them is on a team they might be slightly behind when it comes to stats. considering they're kits i cant see them feeling completely gutted or anything if they're not together but it does seem like it would make balancing them that extra bit harder

DeathBurst4/5/2017, 1:29:55 PM2 votes

I was mostly against this kind of forced synergies, but when I see so blatantly exaggerated and poorly written posts, I'm tempted to still defend Riot nonetheless...

Could you at least elaborate why it's is so "obviously" bad game design? You blurb out generalities and just ask us to trust you without ever mentioning any concrete argument to the specific case at hand.

HalcyonDweller4/5/2017, 4:18:01 PM1 votes

What is 'obvious' to you may not be obvious to Riot. They see things from a different angle.

You are stating opinions as if they are facts; calling them 'obvious.' Just because you think one way, does not make it the right way.

PvtFlowers4/5/2017, 12:07:35 AM1 votes

It seems like the only bonus is the recall. It's about as good as Kha and Rengar's passive interaction.