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The problem with Veigar is his w (solution? inside)

MazeMangler·8/13/2015, 8:26:29 AM·28 votes·2,132 views

/Title

Veigar's abilitys are quite unique. Q is a wonderfull farmtool and can be used to harass (a little weak for that but hey, it does something else already).

E is a powerfull ability out of lane and exciting gameplaywise (you'll STAY in that evil cage no matter what !)

The ult ensures damageoutput, his other damaging skills are skillshots, so i dont see a problem here.

For the W... It's a nuke that's 100% dependant on the stun from e. It's an old skill with massive numbers attached to it, but i think the reason why veigar feels clunky to play lies in that ability. After the rework, this feels so terrible to use. It's a ,,dead'' skill most of the time and you'll never be able to use it in lane out of waveclear purposes. Later on it nukes, but only if someone is cc'ed.

I think w is the cause for veigar's unpopularity. Dont get me wrong: I think balancewise veigar is quite alright, maybe on the weaker side, but the w takes a lot of fun from him.

MY SUGGESTION:

Rework the skill. I like the idea behind a meteor falling on my enemy but decrease the impactdelay. A little bit slower than a kog'maw ult should fit. Then give him a chargesystem like vel'koz' to store 2 at a time. Then decrease the manacost and increase the cd. Lower the damage A LOT (something like 60/90/120/150/180 +60% ap) , keep the current castingtime.

The result would be a fun minigame inside the cage of doom, where veigar could send 2 meteors to hit an opponent, using the cagewalls to land the strikes. His waveclear wouldnt be increased because of the decreased numbers, his poke would be more reliable but also still very dodgeable. His burstcombo would suffer until he put some points into e but then it would be similar to the current one. Through the higher cd, there wouldnt be a problem with a spellspamming veigar, he just gets the chance to split his damage as he likes once.

This could make veigar a superfun champion and make him much more reliable. Thanks for your time!

Edit: There seems to be a misunderstanding that this change would destroy his burstmageidentity. But as long as the stun has enough ranks, 2 w-charges could be landed on the same target dealing slightly more damage than the current nukeversion.

30 Comments

DrCyanide8/13/2015, 3:22:32 PM5 votes

I really like the charges idea. Currently the "cage minigame" is fire W, they dodge it, fire Q, hits the two minions that jumped in your way, and either run away because the cage is about to time out or fire your ult to get some damage off. I'd be be more interested if the re-charge rate is such he could potentially get a third charge off before the cage went down.

Conturbatio8/13/2015, 1:26:30 PM4 votes

If you lower the damage on it by 1 bit he'll become garbage.

  • He's a burst mage, his W shouldn't have a charge system, it should be a single massive burst missile that nukes anyone it smashes. I think that Riot should just lower the delay to at least .75 from 1.2, since the radius is already small + it has a 0.25 cast delay.
TheFirstGokun8/13/2015, 12:19:25 PM2 votes

Moar upvotes! As a Veigar fan I must have this!

Squidblimp8/14/2015, 9:22:25 AM2 votes

That's actually a really really good idea! I had an idea of making it so if you landed any ability, such as Q, on an opponent inside the cage it would stun them, but I like your idea of 2 charges of a W much much more!

Seriously, I love this idea. You could force them to dodge the first W, and then try and hit them with the 2nd W, and lead them around like that. The enemy would have to be smart about dodging. You could also burst several people inside the cage if you managed to land it, which would be amazing. Maybe they could slightly reduce the AOE on the ability so it isn't too much.

I main Veigar, and I love him, but his reliability is just too low right now.

Predatore8/13/2015, 8:43:52 AM2 votes

as a veigar main i would love that

Catastrop8/14/2015, 2:26:52 AM1 votes

I don't hate it, but I like being able to down ADC's with a single Dark Matter Late Game in the chaos of a teamfight, so I'm not saying I like it either.

Hard Penetrator8/14/2015, 8:45:20 AM1 votes

I trying to get players opinion about my idea.

Basically W fall time would be calculated on range from aoe to veigar model. It could be used as some form of defensive mechanic where you actually cast W as a response to enemy moves unlike E that you either have to blow prematurely or keep it and use it after engage while flashing out after enemy dash leaving him stuck inside a wall.

It would also give veigar option of putting himself in dangerous position with high counterplay just to potentially land his W faster without too many chances for adc to run out of AOE range.

Silents4298/14/2015, 9:02:57 AM1 votes

Veigar is fine.

Sire Hippington8/14/2015, 9:04:34 PM1 votes

I agree that his W needs work.

My idea: change it into a 'bullseye' skillshot, meaning you have a iner aoe, should be smaller than on live, in which it deals full damage, and a outer Aoe that should be bigger than on live that either has a hydra like damage-falloff towards the edges or simply a fix lower damage like Sora Q or Xerath W. It would give a higher chance to do some damage and increase the overall aoe damage in teamfights, but to get the gig bang you still would rely on CC.

Your ammo idea would work aswell, however, I do like the idea of Darkmatter beeing a single huge impact metor, a even bigger blastzone as well as the same huge nuke on a direct hit would reinforce that.

Blue Kaozi8/13/2015, 12:36:30 PM1 votes

Sounds good. Out of curiosity, would you add a delay between the w casts if theres an ammo system? It sort of defeats the purpose of splitting them into 2+ shots if they all can be fired at once anyway. Other then covering more ground that is. I think the combined damage of his shots would have to be less then or equal to the one shot now, less warning and all. If thats what you did, thats cool, to early in the morning for math for me.

Rıots Bad Client8/13/2015, 5:54:34 PM1 votes

My suggestions was to make it so he can press is again to port to that location. (much like lissandra's mobility move)

so he can W over walls to ult you.

Surprise party veiger.

(But if this were to happen, I think people would just be pissy that they made another Mobility champ. :B)

Drey Gasai8/13/2015, 7:32:30 PM1 votes

I think with the amount of damage Veigar is allowed to do lategame, his spells are good the way they are. It might not help in solo lane, but in teamfights or when ganking, E is put to good use. In teamfights, you either chain stun with your e on someone else's stun, or use it as a zoning tool to protect you or another squishy on your team- usually your adc. In a gank done properly, the enemy laners should have to flash out of it, otherwise they're cripsified. When used like one of the methods mentioned before it becomes a really powerful tool- seeing as you literally can't go near the cage at all. Late game, anyone who gets caught trying to charge you or another ally and gets caught by the cage WILL get bursted. Coupled with being able to play super safe with his new q, I think that's a fair trade off.

Curling Veigar8/13/2015, 7:50:16 PM1 votes

You might be wrong on the fact that Veigar players max e over w, a lot of mains I know including myself just max W before E

Also I disagree. The only reason he's worth shit right now is because of his w being basically his ult on a 9 second cooldown.