Some champion balances that needs to be address (Big thread)

People don't know how to position.

It's that simple.

People always cry about burst mages.

I promise you brand and mordekaiser would be next up on the chopping block if they ever saw lcs play. "omg op no counterplay"

No, they have counterplay, you just don't know what you are doing.

A good example that proves this is viktor.

All the noobs were spamming "nerf viktor op" as soon as he was locked in. A few weeks later, he has fallen out of favor, and no one is bitching anymore. What happened noobs? I thought viktor was op? Hmmmm?

I don't even understand the hate for LB. People first pick someone like Orianna then wonder why the other guy picks LB and shits on her. Is that really that shocking? No one counter plays her they just sit and wait for the combo then die and wonder what happened.

Edit: The people bitching about Annie should maybe pick her into LB. She just E'd onto your face? Drop 1k instant on her. Congrats you're an ignite away from 300g.

to be fair, ive been spamming a bit of Malz lately after seeing a friend do so well with him. He is pretty damn strong. E+Ult+Ignite is enough to finish off most midlaners after getting a Rod of Ages. His W shreds tanks. His Q is hilarious. And his voidlings are icing on the cake - i know a great Malz player would probably time his passive to take maximum effect during his ult for more damage, but i find it isnt even necessary.

[{quoted}](name=Lane Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VmoZh6ul,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-05-25T18:07:09.386+0000)

Cho'gath is not able to do 1400 true damage to a champion target without at least 1000+ AP

This qq circlejerk shit needs to stop

Annie and Cho'gath are fine. They are both immobile and squishy. All you people are doing is looking for champions to cry about.

After cho, you'll just cry about Brand.

After annie, you'll just cry about vel'koz.

After vel'koz and brand, you'll cry about malzhar.

People always bitch about mages because they don't know how to position.

Edit: 3.2k HP without resistances is not a lot. That is still squishy. Very squishy under focused fire.

I feel this thread is relevant

-HateDaddy

Cho with atleast 550 ap can do 1k+ true damage at max rank. and I said he can do between 1.2k-1.4k (end game results) true damage (the 1.4k true damage is possible because it already happened to me.) And 3.2k hp without a lot of resistance isn't still squishy but he's not Unkillable. While yes he's immobile that can easily be ignored in a team fight, and or be ignored by getting hit with his Q. But regardless, the ability to do 1k-1.4k true damage; meaning there's is nothing you can do about that damage instead attempting to build warmogs or another high HP item which won't benefit you as much (cause he can already kill squishies i.e marksmen, mages, assassins with just q and w.) is not okay at all for the game.

You just named 3 different strategic ways to deal with her.

That is a pretty hard change. you're forced to use none of your skills while you're tibbers is off cooldown, less you lose the stun.

I'd say just make it require some skill to land the stun, making tibbers either a short channel or a thrown AOE (Like, Annie throws the bear)

hold the stun or hold stacks? I tend to go for the "surprise" tibbers - i keep it 1 ability from charging so people dont think i have it, then E-Ult for the stun. Its still pretty telegraphed, but less than having your model glowing.

{quoted}

i dont play much annie, so i wont comment on it.

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Let me ask you something - do you really want her W to do less damage? Because lets be honest here - its her main spell. its her waveclear. its half of her poke. its her mobility. Leblanc revolves around her W, and if you NERF it, you would need to compensate somewhere else for balance (unless you want to just Elise her).

For example, if you took her W scaling and put it on her Q - you have an easier laning until 6, but then all hell breaks loose. Q-R for targeted, instant poke. And if she doesnt need her W for damage, she can use it to get the Q-R poke from 1300 units away. At the moment, her W is her biggest strength and biggest weakness. Forcing you to use your gapcloser to get into Melee range to do damage is a MAJOR weakness in leblanc's kit, especially since its the spell you max first. Put that damage anywhere else and allow her to use her W for gapclosing instead of damage, and she becomes absolutely obnoxious - almost as obnoxious as when she had her silence.

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Cho has an oppressive laning phase agasint any short-range caster, but other champions can deal with him provided you dodge the Q. Having a true damage ult is strong, but realize its 175 range - he should never get in range to Feast you if youre a squishy (unless, of course, you dont dodge the Q. He can Q-Flash-ult if you dont dodge the Q). If he ults a tank, well, that means the APC wasted a single-target ult on a tank: other APCs can do so much more with their ults than a Cho gath.

IF you can survive the laning phase going even, Cho falls off after 2-4 items, depending on the build. He is one of the few midlaners that a equally-matched ADC can destroy. He is a good blind pick, since he doesnt really lose lane to anybody, but he isnt OP or anything.

I forgot to add a edit before posting, Leblanc, if her w does get nerfed, should recieve some compensation, adding small buffs to q and e and adding +0.1 ap scaling on Q. And thats the problem with this, Because of all the changes riot had place, Its now becoming her main tool. For wave clear I can understand but one thing about leblanc that should've been her weakness is weak wave clear, which W says otherwise. I'm not saying nerf it hard enough that she can't even use it to assist in wave clear but the damage for it's cool down on a move thats suppose to be her only mobility move (besides her mimic'd one) and one of her guaranteed combo proc'ing move for her Q needs to be addressed. Her w shouldn't be her identity for damage, it should mainly be the identity of her deceiving her opponent. And while it does bring her into melee range, also note that she can instantly blink back as soon she reach her end of her travel. Some people might be able to get a good cc off (if they have one) when she does it in lane, but its highly unlikely that someone can otherwise.

And cho does have a oppressive laning once he hits 5 and didn't die. but this thread isn't addressing his laning, its more focus on full ap cho Ultimate damage. The damage would been fine, if it wasn't true damage. Because its true damage, it means theres nothing you can even do about it if he manages to use it on you. The only real counterplay to that is its short range but even still, for someone to do that kind of damage, in true damage in a single ability needs to be addressed to.

But the problem with Annie is that she has NO real healthy counterplay in her Kit. She wasn't move to bot lane because she had zero presence in mid lane, she moved to bot lane because she could abuse her high burst damage and have reliable stun.

Personally I believe what i suggested for Annie is the correct answer in the end, for cho'gath however, I am certain there is a better solution but this is what i came up for.

{quoted}

I disagree with your first suggestion for Annie. It wouldn't fix much at all. She would still have the instant Flash-W at ~75 less range. It wouldn't really help. Your second change is a really big nerf. It would probably have to come with some compensation (obviously not to her burst - it is high enough already).

On Leblanc I would be more interested in changing something to give her slightly more obvious counterplay. Given how short the W cooldown is, giving it a delay would be far worse for her than it is for Zed, so if that is done it should be done with caution (remembering that she can't be compensated with numbers if she needs it due to her already high burst). I don't know what that would be. What I do know is that if she loses too much burst she will become useless... Leblanc is a difficult champion to keep balanced...

For Cho, having a high true damage spell is actually fine, I htink. Given its short range and cast time it has a large amount of associated counterplay. His damage seems to fall off late game anyway - do we want to exacerbate that? What I think needs toning down is his lane pressure - early nerfs to his passive or W could do wonders.

On the annie thing, I purposly left that so for her to have a unless reliable team initiation unless she's gonna be burning flash. But the problem isn't exactly all about the flash ult. Its the fact that if she has her ult and stun ready, you cannot get near her period at all without dying. But the flash ult isn't something to complain about considering flash is on a long cool down and she can do it ever so often. And the secondary change is more of a nerf to support annie, this doesn't change annie for what she can do regardless but it just doesn't allow her to sit on her passive endlessly with no real drawl backs.

And i forgot to add a part where she gets small compensation due to the power loss because her main actual high base damage ability is her mimic's and W. So her Q and E gets a small augment in base damage, but q gets a +0.1 more in AP Scaling. And she does still should deserve a zed treatment but this particular thread isn't going to be focusing on that (Assuming riot is already planning to due so).

And yes Cho having a high true damage ultimate is fine, but when going Full ap Cho, it reaches numbers too high for it to be fine as a true damage ability. While it is a short range (the range can slightly increase per stacks), this isn't exactly hard for him to get in range (obviously due to q and w) unless he's trying to get someone whose extremely mobile. I do agree with you about toning down his lane pressure by small nerfs on either his passive or W. But this particular thread isn't going to focus on that however.