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why zyra will never be a midlaner

resumed·3/10/2017, 9:39:31 PM·3 votes·1,498 views

when you ask someone who wants zyra to be played as a mid laner, theyll pretty much say that the nerf to her plants which caused them to no longer auto target enemy champions killed zyra mid for good which made her completely overbearing to play against when in the bot lane. and they say that eliminates her mid potential because it was zyras only reliable source of damage on her enemy laner.

this means that in order for zyra to be viable in the mid lane, it means zyra must have unhealthy mechanics in her kit which arbitrarily rewards the zyra player for missing her abilities. ""higher scaling"""" and """"lower bases"" (the ring to which many say is the key to zyra mid) don't enter the equation whatsoever when zyra has no reliable source of damage in lane. so in order for zyra mid to be viable, in addition to ""higher scalings"", she needs to have her plants auto target again.

https://clips.twitch.tv/ViscousLittleSagePrimeMe

see this shit? support zyra, a level down from varus, kills him with just one plant. guess what? do you know what higher scaling and lower bases would mean??? it means zyra would just be able to do that way earlier due to the increased gold and scaling and varus wouldn't have lasted HALF as long. imagine a plant doing that much damage which also autotargets. it would be like zyra on release all over again, just being able to 1v5 without a care in the world

this is because that zyra mid is such a generic mage that she doesn't shine in any particular area whatsoever and in order for her to be a viable midlaner her damage needs absolutely bonkers at all stages of the game when it would be so much easier for her to just be a support capable of being a moderate damage threat because her mechanics and kit simply work so much better in a 2v2 scenario and not have any of the unhealthy bullshit mechanics which rewards the zyra for missing her abilities

tl;dr

riot doesnt want zyra to gib you just because you walked near a plant

11 Comments

Vekkna3/10/2017, 11:05:39 PM5 votes

Just to clarify, you think an ADC should be able to eat an ult and 7 seconds worth of an ulted plant and not die?

The travesty in this video is Varus taking 0 damage from an ult that hit him, not that he died to an ulted plant after 7 seconds.

LankPants3/11/2017, 12:22:13 AM2 votes

when you ask someone who wants zyra to be played as a mid laner, theyll pretty much say that the nerf to her plants which caused them to no longer auto target enemy champions killed zyra mid for good

Nobody says that it killed Zyra mid for good, we say that it killed Zyra mid. Zyra mid is not functional at all anymore, IE it's dead.

and they say that eliminates her mid potential because it was zyras only reliable source of damage on her enemy laner.

Which was a fault of the rework, it destroyed Zyra's Q harass.

this means that in order for zyra to be viable in the mid lane, it means zyra must have unhealthy mechanics in her kit which arbitrarily rewards the zyra player for missing her abilities.

No it doesn't. Let's take a hypothetical example where we just replace Zyra's Q with Syndra's, I think with a spell more like that Zyra mid would be 100% workable, even without her plants autotargeting. You're confusing "this made it work" with "this is the only way it can work.

""higher scaling"""" and """"lower bases"" (the ring to which many say is the key to zyra mid) don't enter the equation whatsoever when zyra has no reliable source of damage in lane. so in order for zyra mid to be viable, in addition to ""higher scalings"", she needs to have her plants auto target again.

This is a general statement rather than a hard and fast rule. It's what needs to happen to her plants specifically. I'd also like to see Q's base damage per rank as well as ratio buffed to give Zyra her harass spell.

that's one of support zyras weakest points in the game.

Late game is support Zyra's strongest point. She becomes a secondary APC. Zyra's winrate spikes at about 40 min because of it.

Catastrop3/11/2017, 12:28:42 AM2 votes

Um no, Zyra will never be a midlaner because it's giant waste of resources. There's no point sending her mid and giving her gold when she can do the same thing a full AP mid Zyra can do with just Sorc and Voidstaff in the support role. Yes there are other factors, like the recent nerfs to her plant AI, but this is one of the main reasons she simply will never be a viable mid laner, unless of course Riot decides to address her getting more damage per level than per ap.

Erockandroll3/10/2017, 10:23:01 PM1 votes

Arguably though, Zyra's plants should be about zoning you away. If your within the plants Attack range and you just ignore it (like in the video) your going to have a bad time.

Personally, I see it more than just Higher ratios, but more about the abilities themselves. If you want Zyra to work in the mid lane, you need more power on her other abilities, so that they can provide sufficient wave clear. Though after the MYMU, Riot took her in the opposite direction and focused on her plants. (more poke, not as much waveclear)

But honestly I don't actually care. To me, Zyra will be Zyra regardless of her position in the comp.

Kubox3/10/2017, 10:57:29 PM1 votes

To make Zyra a proper mid laner they would probably have to rework her plant concept altogether.

If anything, I want to see Zyra's plants empowering her rather than be her main source of damage, potentially even outright removing their "minion" job from them. Heck, I could/want see a similar system to GP's barrel system :

  • Casting Q near a seed would cause it to detonate (after 0.5s) smaller, potentially even stronger versions of the spell, causing Zyra to choose between reliability or damage.
  • Seed would cause her E to spread out, potentially snaring targets from further away, surprising them or locking down more people.
  • She might need a new ult. Stranglethorn is amazing but way too powerful, especially if her E becomes too reliable at locking down teams.

Honestly, seeing Malz and Zyra, I don't think a minion-based mage will ever work. The minions either have to be extremely strong to make up for the champion's other abilities or way too weak if they make it so the champions doesn't feel like shit on his/her own.

Calabok3/10/2017, 10:58:53 PM1 votes

It's a good thing