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@Meddler Why is Bloodrazor the only jungle enchant that is good against one subset of champions?

AlwaysByMySide·5/11/2016, 10:25:13 AM·8 votes·1,812 views

Which is to say, it is only effective against health-stacking enemies.

As a Master Yi main, wiith devourer I had options. Although there was always more to take into account, generally speaking you got Guinsoo's Rageblade if you needed to kill squishies better (Titanic Hydra was also bought for this purpose, and also had the benefit of making you harder to burst). You bought Blade of the Ruined King to better kill tanks. Devourer had just as much synergy with all of these items, and meant that you could use its phantom hit to better suit the game. There were options, depending on either how the game was going or team comps.

With Bloodrazor on the other hand, there is no real choice in how you use the item. It's a tank busting item. That's it. Even if it is buffed out of its currently weak state, it will still just be the jungle enchant that is only good against tanks. No other jungle enchant has this limitation. Warrior's flat AD and CDR can then be further enhanced with either flat pen or percent pen to work against squishies or tanks respectively. Cinderhulk's extra health is always effective for tanks, it's the item you get to be tankier, which each tank wants to be. Runic Echoes provides more flat stats that are just generally effective.

Bloodrazor is the only item that was made to counter a specific subset of champion, but what if they have no tank? What if their tank(s) is being turbo dumpstered in lane and isn't even worth itemizing against? Build Warrior, an early game power spike item on a champion who is just frankly inferior early on to the champions it's meant for? And warrior feels awful on Yi regardless.

I really am interested in hearing a response Meddler. Am I only supposed to play Yi or champions like him for the sole purpose of tank-busting?

6 Comments

LankPants5/11/2016, 12:34:31 PM4 votes

Even if it is buffed out of its currently weak state, it will still just be the jungle enchant that is only good against tanks.

Well no, that's not how % damage works.

When was the last time you heard a Fiora or a Kog say "they're too squishy, I can't kill them". % damage doesn't work this way, it's target indifferent at best, in most cases it's better VS squishies off of the basis of it still being physical damage.

One of the reasons Riot removed Bloodrazor in the first place is that people were confused about it's role. People assumed it was a squishy item for killing tanks, what it was actually best used for was a bruiser item for killing squishies. I'd imagine the new one works roughly the same.

Abyssphere5/11/2016, 12:53:49 PM4 votes

Yes, %HP damage is exclusively good against tanks. That's why Vayne didn't rush it forever to duel the enemy ADC and Fizz (+ every other bullshit fake tank last year) didn't build it top to assassinate squishies.

%HP is better against tanks than flat damage but it's not weak against squishies and Bloodrazor is clearly not going to be used for tank-busting because junglers can't get the armour pen needed to make the damage stay relevant against tanks. It's a dueling item with a little bit of oomph so it's not completely shrugged off by tanks.

Smitemuffin5/11/2016, 11:33:48 AM3 votes

What's wrong with buying Warrior and Shiv so you can burst carries without stat-checking the entire team?

That's the whole purpose: Devourer was creating too many instances where the meta was dictated by outlier champs who could best abuse the item. And guinsoos just made it worse. There's nothing fun about getting facerolled by on-hit AP Yi for the other 9 people in the game.

Lovely Pants5/11/2016, 12:53:00 PM2 votes

% Maximum health has always been more of the ubiquitous damage stat choice than strictly a tank-busting stat. It tends to be most effective against health stacking tanks and squishies with little resistance.

I'll show my math so I can be corrected by more knowledgeable folk.

Assuming 3% maximum health on-hit and the rough damage multiplier of 100/(100+Armor) Take a champion with 2000 HP and 100 Armor. .03 x 2000=60 damage from the max health passive Armor multiplier( 100/100+100) = .5

Damage taken = 30, Champion dies from on-hit damage alone in roughly 66 hits

Take a champion with 3000 HP and 200 Armor .03 x 3000 = 90 damage from max health passive Armor multiplier (100/100+200) =.33

Damage taken = 30, Champion dies from on-hit damage alone in roughly 100 hits.

This is a huge simplification cause there's a lot more maths in the game and item considerations, and I haven't even mentioned armor penetration, but the point is that in general with % max health damage you still kill squishies much faster than tanks with resistances.