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Jungle Xp What does it really mean?

Kakoda··5 votes·5,371 views

So, Jungle Xp.... Is it really a big deal? How will this effect junglers?

Fist thing is obviously camps will now give less Xp as the game goes on. Not so bad right? Well it may not be the end of the day over all the next change is where Junglers will feel the most pain. Experience scales ever second level instead of every level. This one line of text is where most of us will feel the pain.

As of this patch with the current XP (Golems give 30% reduced xp on 1st clear). If you do 2 Full Clears and get 1 scuttle crap you will have level 5 and 69% Xp towards level 6. If you get both crabs along with 2 full clears you will just hit level 6. This means to hit level 6 you now MUST get both crabs OR leech lane XP.

So what does this mean then? Well first off if you play a champion that can not full clear your jungle you will not be getting level 6 until a lot later then you normally would. This is because even after your 1st clear the xp you get from your 2nd clear will be the same as if you killed them at level 1 (excluding the golems that will give 30% more due to them losing the xp loss on the first clear.).

Another issue will be invading, if you get invaded if they clear your camp fully you will still get only level 1 camps worth of XP on your next clear. On top of this if they leave one small minion this can really hurt you as you will be deleayed your level 6 even more.

Does this effect farming junglers or ganking junglers?

Well it effects both, although it effects farming junglers more. The reason is simple lane XP. If you gank a lane get a kill help push the wave you will get a bunch of XP more then a single camps worth of XP depending how long you stay can be a lot more then a single camps worth of xp. As a farming jungler you do not gank as much so you will be missing the lane Xp that a ganking jungler will get. So as a farming jungler the in my opinion the only way you will keep up with ganking junglers (In high mmr) is to invade and take the enemy camps.

High MMR vs Low MMR

Although both High MMR and Low MMR will feel this change I think Low MMR will feel this a lot more.

Low MMR

-Do not kite camps well (lose more HP may not be able to full clear or clear as many camps) -Pathing is sub optimal (will not take camps on spawn and general piss farting around)

These 2 things combined will effect a low MMR jungler a lot more then a High MMR jungler. With these changes players who simply can not clear well, do not full clear, or are just not good with jungle timings will suffer from this change the most. On top of all this if you are invaded it will be harder to come back into the game. Low MMR players in general are not good at playing from behind so this will making junglers who fall behind early have a harder time getting back into the game.

High MMR

High MMR will be slightly different but also suffer the same issues. The main difference will come with how effecent they are with pathing and also tracking the enemy jungler. In High MMR Junglers who gank should get invaded thus making the XP difference not as large between the 2 junglers. Also the general pathing will make it so they will keep up with bot lanes XP.

Over all this is a huge blow to all junglers the main pain felt in camps granting extra XP ever 2 levels instead of every 1 level. This will obviously change the meta in a huge way!

TIPS

Some tips for all junglers.

-If you gank take advantage of lane XP push with your laners and leech as much XP as you can.

-Focus on clearing your camps as soon as posible! Gank only if you think 90% or more chance to get a kill thus push. DO NOT DILLY DADDLE! Your time is now worth more then ever. Do not gank a lane unless you will benifit from it. So get a kill push leech XP if you can not get this then it is better you clear your camps.

-Invading can really help you get ahead of the enemy jungler now more then ever, if you can invade and it is safe to do so then this will give you a huge lead!

If you are invaded on be sure to use pink wards on your jungle. If you see you are being invaded then head over to the oposite side jungle and invade them back.

Over all I really dislike these changes. Mainly because camps now give extra XP every 2nd level making level 6 junglers get level 6 a lot later.

Is jungle now dead? No jungle for good players will be fine but for players who are not that great with time management well they are going to fall behind more in your games. Yikes that is scary low MMR junglers will in my opinion now be one of the weakest rolls. In High MMR junglers should still be able to impact the game given a little less but it will not effect them as much as lower MMR junglers.

Please Roit stop nurfing jungle XP this is what the 4th time now in the last 6-8 months?

To be honest I have given these changes a go and am not happy at all with them. As a player who only really enjoys the jungle roll this nurf has hit way to hard. I have always been extreamly good with my jungle pathing and I am super effecent. I tend to take my camps on spawn and gank as well. So with leeching lane XP and getting camps on spawn most of the game and %%%%er jungling I feel I am way to low level for the CS I have. In a recent game I had 50cs + then everyone else in the game and still was not the highest level infact I was 2 levels under my midlaner who had much less CS then me. Sure you can get xp without getting cs, the point is though I do not feel as if I am being rewarded for my good plays. I don't want to be that guy who say's well now I quit LoL. Truth is I will still play but not much at all, I will not play ranked and probably not SR. I will play an aram here and there with friends thats about all.

The issue is Jungle is no longer rewarding to play. As a jungler and my play style I would normally have 3-4 level lead on the enemy jungler and almost always had the most CS and highest level in the game. You can say this is what riot wanted to change yes... The problem was I was not the highest level in the game because I farmed my jungle I was the highest level because I would farm my jungle and the enemy jungle at the same time. I would on average have around 120cd from my jungle and 60-80 cs from the enemy jungle. This is why I was always ahead in XP and gold.

So all in all Jungle no longer feels rewarding to play, I can get ahead I can be 5-0-5 at 15min and I just do not feel strong any more. This nurf makes jungle feel unrewarding and to be honest since the changed I have played a bunch of games and sure I can still carry but I do not feel like I am being rewarded for playing my roll well.

As a side note because I invade a lot and steal camps I have in a few of my games made the enemy jungler level 4 while the rest of his team was level 8-9. This should not happen even if you are invaded that hard. you should not be level 4 at 12-13min into the game

Jungler no longer feels rewarding to play!!!!

How to fix this?

Honestly I do not know what riot was thinking when they made camps give more XP every 2 levels instead of every level. Most people do not not understand that this adds an extra 25% less xp on top of the nuffs. The XP nurfs alone are not that bad but the fact that camps give extra XP every 2 levels instead of every level is the issue.

Make camps give bonus XP every level and the jungle will be fine even with the XP nurfs. As is though until the XP is buffed or they revert the silly change of making camps give bonus XP every 2nd level I do not think jungle is in a good place.

I am not saying jungle is dead it is not, you can still effect the game and although it is quite a bit weaker it ia not dead. It just no longer feela rewarding in my opinion.

11 Comments

hewhodoesnotcare3 votes

boycott the jungle role. do not play it. dodge every game u get jungle. we must let riot know we hate what they have done to the jungle.

BigFBear2 votes

Now is the jungle rewarding or not rewarding in your opinion??? Can you clarify? You didn't make this very clear in your post...

MordridtheBlack1 votes

There is also the problem that this is, in a way...pushing out specific junglers.

Tankier ones that have slower clear; Shyvana as an example. Granted ganking with her was always difficult, as your main tool for engage is your R.

Other junglers; MasterYi are still technically fine with this...as they can gank much earlier and clear camps decently fast.

Kakoda1 votes

{quoted}

There is also the problem that this is, in a way...pushing out specific junglers.

Tankier ones that have slower clear; Shyvana as an example. Granted ganking with her was always difficult, as your main tool for engage is your R.

Other junglers; MasterYi are still technically fine with this...as they can gank much earlier and clear camps decently fast.

Yes it does effect these junglers to, though it is also effecting the enemy. So if you clear while the enemy is ganking you should still be the same level as them if because they leech xp. This is the problem though. A ganking jungler with the xp nurfs now do not lose as much as they will leech lane XP. Farming junglers although they should have more gold as the gold has not changed will be even or maybe even behind in xp to the ganking junglers as leeching half a wave of xp will give more xp then doing 2 camps.

This change was meant to stop junglers always ganking and impacting lanes so much. The issue is it done quite the opposite in my opinion. Sure you can counter jungle as always. You will get more gold but you will got get an xp lead.

Junglers that need level 6 before ganking is viable (sure you can always gank but some champs need 6 to make it more effective). These junglers now suffer a lot more. The only way for a jungler to hit level 6 now without going to a lane is to get 2 full clears and both scuttles.

The issue comes when gankong junglers tend to be the junglers that are strong at level 2. If they do scuttles in between ganks the junglers that can not contest are at a huge xp disadvantage. If you are unable to get a scuttle after 2 full clears you maybe just hit level 5 a little into level 5.

This means if you are unable to contest a scuttle and are unable to gank then you will not hit level 6 before 8min. And 8min level 6 is terrible!

I don't understand how RIOT thought nurfing jungle xp will help farming junglers over ganking junglers. I seems like an over sight that lane xp will out way jungle xp. Leeching lane XP gives a lot more then doing a camp. So gank get a kill push the tower get a tower plate maybe stay for another wave you are now a higher level then the enemy who just farmed the whole time.

It's really sad as an eve main every patch seems to hit me some how. Direct nurfs to eve plus rune changes and then item changes. Laterally almist every patcj has effected me as an eve main in a bad way. I can deal with less damage but the xp nurfs mainly the 2nd clear giving the same xp as the first has really hit hard and as a result I just can not seem to enjoy the game anymore.

I do well in mist of my games even with the nurfs I still do fine, but i feel like i have 5 kills counter jungle all the time and I feel like I am just going even with my laners even though I'm super ahead. The satisfaction of doing well in the jungle has been taken away and made playing jungle feel bad.

I would not be surprised if people just stop jungling and start laning instead. As it is now having 2 people top or mid wouldn't actually lose you much over having a jungler. Only issue with that is riot forces you to have a jungler with roll selection. Honestly que as jungler play a support and lane with top or mid. Shit even 3 bot is strong.

ApollyonBainer1 votes

I am no high elo jg. My mechanics are ok. I dont pay as much attention to camp respawns as i should. Heres my question, what champs are still useful in the jungle then. Like as far as the power farming or heavy gank style champs. Like obviously the faster you can clear a camp the better.

Im a big fan of zac. I've done a little bit of clear research but normally I just go with the flow and gank during those prime opportunities like you said "whenever you can get a kill so you can push" it works out pretty well because Im low elo like i said.

Dalick1 votes

If you are asking what junglers to play. read my comment above or wherever it is. It explains how the jungle actually works now. It does not make a massive difference. Xin Zhao goes for S- tier to A tier. Karthus went from A/S tier to being the best jungler in the game (play karthus jungle for free elo). Like it does not make massive changes. Champs at most will go up or down 1 division. Counter jungling is much stronger, so champs that are good at that are also much better.

ApollyonBainer2 votes

Yeah I read that through. This is a lot of good info thank you so much

Dalick1 votes

Read my comment above please. or below. I dont know where it is, but this comment makes me cry so i can barely address it. Also not sure but really think about how counter jungling can affect heavy gank junglers, u take away 2 camps for a gank, and they are now 1 lvl behind....

Dalick1 votes

Did you just say shyvana is a slow clearing jungle? She is one of the fastest in the game.....

Dalick1 votes

First off, I didnt read your post. I poorly assumed you are a silver player, and have no idea how the game should be played, and we may as well be playing different games. Let me go over some facts real quick. not opinions, hard facts. If a player understood proper pathing, he could gank and be on the same level as his midlaner. Jungle was the most important role in the game If a player did not gank and was using proper pathing, he could be the first player in the game to hit lvl 6. Junglers decided which lanes won. period. It wasnt about who had better laners, It was about who had the better jungler. Junglers where leading the game in EXP, gold and early game pressure. Next, there was no specific jungler that was the problem, there weren't even a few. It was across the board, that junglers all had to much strength. OPINION: Junglers should not be the same level as midlaner at 10 minutes after committing for any ganks OPINION: Junglers should be the same level as bot lane, perma farming and never ganking (which is currently true with the current patch) Now, those 2 opinions above are made in the aspect of what is actually fair for the game. Now let me explain to you how this works. Now I assume you won't understand so ill go into an actual match up vs junglers Shyvana vs Xin Zhao For the first 5 minutes of the game, Xin Zhao is actually stronger in comparison to shyvana, as shyvana cannot come to counter gank, or gank at all, as the EXP nerfs don't actually come into till 5 minutes. (first clear and a half, is the moment it matters) Once it has been 5 minutes. aka clear and a half. Xin gets less EXP, meaning if he were to gank, his level will be lower, and due to a think called level advantage, making his ganks riskier. While that is happening, Shyv gets to perma farm and not care because xin zhao is forced to gank to have a chance to make his team win. This means counter jungler is that much stronger, losing a camp now is huge. Xin ganks, Shyv tanks jungle. Xin at 10 mins is now 2-3 levels behind where he would be before this patch. In other words. In comparison to early game junglers vs farming junglers. Early game is stronger for first 5 mins, and farming junglers are stronger after 5 minutes. I am not saying a shyv at 6 mins can 1v1 a xin, she cannot. I am saying this in the form of map pressure, and potential. Another fact. Riot is trying to make the game last a bit longer. They feel it is too early game focused. and they are correct. Correctly, with any team that understands the game (lets say d2 plus) a 20-24 minute baron has a 95% winrate. An early game play into a baron is game over. In low elo, you aren't even playing league of legends. If 9.2 never happened, and you asked any player above d2 what should happen. they would say "junglers are too strong, nerf jungle, early game baron is a ff, nerf early baron" now you make be like "well thats d2 plus, the majority of the players are silver" well then genius, how would you balance the game? Frankly, silvers aren't playing the same game. I feel like yall have been playing legit a different game for the past 6 months then the rest of us.

Kakoda1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BMF PowerOfMind,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VT4Eosp3,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-26T21:47:39.823+0000)

First off, I didnt read your post. I poorly assumed you are a silver player, and have no idea how the game should be played, and we may as well be playing different games. Let me go over some facts real quick. not opinions, hard facts. If a player understood proper pathing, he could gank and be on the same level as his midlaner. Jungle was the most important role in the game If a player did not gank and was using proper pathing, he could be the first player in the game to hit lvl 6. Junglers decided which lanes won. period. It wasnt about who had better laners, It was about who had the better jungler. Junglers where leading the game in EXP, gold and early game pressure. Next, there was no specific jungler that was the problem, there weren't even a few. It was across the board, that junglers all had to much strength. OPINION: Junglers should not be the same level as midlaner at 10 minutes after committing for any ganks OPINION: Junglers should be the same level as bot lane, perma farming and never ganking (which is currently true with the current patch) Now, those 2 opinions above are made in the aspect of what is actually fair for the game. Now let me explain to you how this works. Now I assume you won't understand so ill go into an actual match up vs junglers Shyvana vs Xin Zhao For the first 5 minutes of the game, Xin Zhao is actually stronger in comparison to shyvana, as shyvana cannot come to counter gank, or gank at all, as the EXP nerfs don't actually come into till 5 minutes. (first clear and a half, is the moment it matters) Once it has been 5 minutes. aka clear and a half. Xin gets less EXP, meaning if he were to gank, his level will be lower, and due to a think called level advantage, making his ganks riskier. While that is happening, Shyv gets to perma farm and not care because xin zhao is forced to gank to have a chance to make his team win. This means counter jungler is that much stronger, losing a camp now is huge. Xin ganks, Shyv tanks jungle. Xin at 10 mins is now 2-3 levels behind where he would be before this patch. In other words. In comparison to early game junglers vs farming junglers. Early game is stronger for first 5 mins, and farming junglers are stronger after 5 minutes. I am not saying a shyv at 6 mins can 1v1 a xin, she cannot. I am saying this in the form of map pressure, and potential. Another fact. Riot is trying to make the game last a bit longer. They feel it is too early game focused. and they are correct. Correctly, with any team that understands the game (lets say d2 plus) a 20-24 minute baron has a 95% winrate. An early game play into a baron is game over. In low elo, you aren't even playing league of legends. If 9.2 never happened, and you asked any player above d2 what should happen. they would say "junglers are too strong, nerf jungle, early game baron is a ff, nerf early baron" now you make be like "well thats d2 plus, the majority of the players are silver" well then genius, how would you balance the game? Frankly, silvers aren't playing the same game. I feel like yall have been playing legit a different game for the past 6 months then the rest of us.

I didn't read your post but I am D3 on my so I am not even going to bother reading your comment if you don't read the post. It is rude and you have no idea what the post is about so you should not be posting at all. Bye.

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