Make turrets do HP% true damage

Keyless·Nov 22, 2018·22 votes·5,688 views

Personally, one of the most irritating things in League of Legends is the idea that a 4man dive under tower has a low risk high reward factor to it. If you get a super tank like zac, the midlaner, and then dive the botlane. The botlane is forced to just give up the tower and retreat while possibly losing multiple waves of cs. This makes it feel that turrets have extremely little impact in the game and are not really that safe to be around. Now, I also believe in the flip coin side of things. Turret dives should also be possible, because it adds another element of strategy and can be fun in general. The main problem with turret diving atm is that it really is a low risk high reward type of thing. However, if you change the turret to do a constant 13% true max hp damage, this helps retain the carry champions to dive while also making it so tanks can still be punished by turret dives.

27 Comments

ModWulf HelhammerNov 22, 20188 votes

And then that completely defeats the point of tanking towers and turret diving.

If you get 4 man dived, you are going to die, bar some kind of Fenix level play where you completely turn it around on them. With that many people, yeah the risk is low. The offset is that they've dedicated basically their entire team onto one area of the map. Take advantage of that by punishing them somewhere else. They 4 man'd bot lane? Well that just gives you a free push onto their mid and top, your jungler free reign into their top side jungle, and you get security around the Baron/Herald pit.

It's a team game. Coordinate as a team (and no, you don't need voice coms to do that. Pinging to attack an enemy turret works perfectly fine)

GreyfellDNov 22, 20182 votes

[deleted]

FullmetallicNov 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That is stupid, you are just promoting gang warfare, which is probably acceptable in your country but not decent developed countries.

Hol up

KeylessNov 22, 20182 votes

Yes I understand there is counterplay to 4 man dive. The answer is to abandon the tower and pressure elsewhere, HOWEVER, that does not really add any more depth to the game and just makes the game more jungle/midreliant since they need to be more ahead. %HP true damage does not make turret dives impossible, it can still work if coordinated well enough, the purpose is so you there needs to be a more precise execution to make it work. The issue is not the lack of counterplay per se, its the ease of executing the strategy.

KeylessNov 22, 20182 votes

There are times where towers do absolutely nothing for protection against certain team comps in mid, late, or even early game. %Hp true damage (maybe 5% instead of 10%) would make it so you still have to watch out for the damage from turrets, instead of disregarding it all together.

Iota ThetaNov 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

There are times where towers do absolutely nothing for protection against certain team comps in mid, late, or even early game. %Hp true damage (maybe 5% instead of 10%) would make it so you still have to watch out for the damage from turrets, instead of disregarding it all together.

You do realize that’ll only encourage dives by other champs, right? It may hurt tanks more cause of true damage, but it’ll end up dealing less to other classes that never really build armor or health. Turrets are supposed to chunk less armor classes to encourage the use of tankier champs to hold of the tower. With that change, it kills everyone at the exact same pace.

Heos00Nov 22, 20181 votes

I've never managed to my teammates to do a counter rotation/objective if they 4 man me and my support on botlane unless they are good and knows what to do lmao. Not common for me seeing someone doing a counter rotation after needed to give my botlane turret because they wanted to 4 man me, isn't lcs.

PowerSlave993Nov 22, 20182 votes

When you see 4 man diving you --> ABANDON THE POST!!!

JackMcSnipeyzNov 22, 20184 votes

If 4 people are tower diving you and taking your turret, you have 3 other team mates who can force objectives.

Turrets sucks now, but making then un tankable will swing the balance in the other direction.

If 4 people commit to tower diving you, you SHOULD respect the threat and move back.

Heos00Nov 22, 20182 votes

It's a game without comms, the other 3 people (talking about botlane) probably don't know or don't want to do any rotation or take another objective like in most of the cases and there's one thing that you can take if they go for bot turret that is herald, if you kee pushing you can't destroy another turret because 3-4 pushes and deals more dmg to a turret than 2 or 1 and with the first turret gold isn't rewarding as it taking another objective...

JackMcSnipeyzNov 22, 20187 votes

So 4 people can coordinate a tower dive, but 3 people cant understand to push their lane/force objective on their own?

Seems legit.

What is the solution? To make turrets undiveable? If anything the closes strategic options and every lane would just be a freeze farm fest because everyone wants turrets to melt tank in 5 shots

Heos00Nov 22, 20181 votes

If your team coordinates first to do a tower dive on bot then the team that did it it's by far more likely to win since they know how to coordinate, in my experience, are counted the times that i had teammates who know how to push/force objective and i already know im going to lose just because my team doesn't has initiative to do a counter rotation since bot has 2 people on it (600 g) and it's extremly rewarding to dive without little risk. Also, isn't about making them untankable, maybe 13% is too much if the dmg keeps scaling much, but they for sure can be tankable.

JackMcSnipeyzNov 23, 20181 votes

So the better coordinating team, in a team game - is more likely to win. Flawless logic, nerf that shit to the ground, the better TEAM wins? Unacceptable, remove turrert diving and remove all rivee paths, make this game 1v1 locked.

Also, i also think turrets are pathetic, but your reasoning for nerfing them is stupid and i had to point it out.

Tanks should be able to tank turrets, adding tools for the turret to melt tank's core ability (tanking) is a short sighted lazy solution to the problem.

BeersteinNov 22, 20183 votes

True damage I'm okay with, %HP is dumb.

CandiceuLNov 22, 20182 votes

Yes and make that ramp up so even a tank should fear staying under too long.

Daddy AntsNov 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yes and make that ramp up so even a tank should fear staying under too long.

I'm not sure why you got down voted.

Jackom1Nov 22, 20182 votes

Tanks should still have the option of taking a couple turret shots during a tower dive. True damage makes sense, even HP% up to a point. Like have it's first few attacks deal flat true damage (like 3 or 4), then switch to HP% true damage. That way, there is still sense to a tank being the of the team to dive, but he won't be able to tank everything like now.

Daddy AntsNov 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Tanks should still have the option of taking a couple turret shots during a tower dive. True damage makes sense, even HP% up to a point. Like have it's first few attacks deal flat true damage (like 3 or 4), then switch to HP% true damage. That way, there is still sense to a tank being the of the team to dive, but he won't be able to tank everything like now.

The role of a Tank is to be a Frontline initiator for their team and to distract enemy damage dealers into hitting them and not the tanks backline.

Not to sit under a tower for 10 years and walk out alive

My proposition -

First shot does flat true damage.

Every shot after that does 10% max hp true damage, stacking up to a maximum of 30%

Shot 2 does 10% hp true damage. Shot 3 does 20% hp true damage. Shot 4 + do 30% hp true damage.

Damage resets after being out of combat with enemy champions for 5 seconds.

This way teams cant just stick a Mundo under tower for 12 years and he still walks out alive.

BârdNov 23, 20182 votes

...this will have the opposite effect you want it to.

Sure, tanks will end up dying faster to towers.

The flipside is that now, the enemy ADC can tank tower as long as a tank can.

With the 13% you mention, Vayne would be able to tank 7 tower shots before having to deaggro.

xDogMeatxDec 4, 20182 votes

true % dmg plus flat ad damage add in some magic damage all at the same time and we got a deal. https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/012/468/shakeee.jpg

EschetonNov 22, 20181 votes

This just punishes tanks for not building full damage to kill you under tower faster and will make assassin dives insanely effective. As 13% max health isn't bad when you have escapes in your kit and can easily read the cost and risk like that

KeylessDec 4, 20181 votes

I am really just throwing out the idea to look into turret changes in terms of damage and have not looked into what "perfect" numbers would be. There are countless ways (20% hp damage to carries, 13% hp damage to tanks etc.). Again, I will reiterate, I am just throwing the idea at looking to workout some turret damage changes- and do not know what the ideal damage numbers should be.

DNFVixenNov 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Personally, one of the most irritating things in League of Legends is the idea that a 4man dive under tower has a low risk high reward factor to it. If you get a super tank like zac, the midlaner, and then dive the botlane. The botlane is forced to just give up the tower and retreat while possibly losing multiple waves of cs. This makes it feel that turrets have extremely little impact in the game and are not really that safe to be around. Now, I also believe in the flip coin side of things. Turret dives should also be possible, because it adds another element of strategy and can be fun in general. The main problem with turret diving atm is that it really is a low risk high reward type of thing. However, if you change the turret to do a constant 13% true max hp damage, this helps retain the carry champions to dive while also making it so tanks can still be punished by turret dives.

I agree with this 100%

Warlord RhinarkNov 22, 20181 votes

13% is a bit too much, especially if it keeps the damage ramping up.

Perhaps reduce it to 10%?

EleshakaiNov 22, 20181 votes

I dunno, I feel like the towers should be more threatening to tanks, but not such that they hurt everyone the same. Tanks SHOULD Be more durable to tanks.

I do like the thought of making turrets do say 100 physical damage first hit, then 125 physical damage 25 true damage, then 150 physical 50 true, etc.

Vlada CutNov 23, 20181 votes

Would make their damage output useless early gamr during the laning phase. Even shittier output vs Adcs and otzer squishy alike.

Iota ThetaNov 23, 20181 votes

All this would do is allow any champ to tank a turret for as long as a tank. What’s the issue with a tank being able to actually tank one of the few things in the game that will lock onto them? A tank being able to soak those shots is a big part of being a tank. An assassin or ADC should not be able to do that in similar fashion to a tank. In fact, it makes diving safer with less tanky champs since they won’t be getting chunked as quickly by the tower.

Aside from that, as others have said, there are already answers to a four man dive. Either get your team to pressure elsewhere with the advantage they now have as you fall back, especially since if the four focus the turret before plating falls, they’ll have a tougher time with the bulwark shield, or if your team rotated down as well, counter engage. Unless insanely fed, 2v4 should be a struggle for the two and force them to back off.