@Riot - Let's talk Shen

Enosetc·11/22/2015, 7:19:19 PM·2 votes·2,497 views

Shen's rework is on the horizon and -- I'll be honest -- change is scary. At the same time, I'm glad Riot's giving my favorite champion some attention as there are some points of interest that I think Riot should touch on. Let's dive into them right away.

  • Vorpal Blade (Q)

Admittedly, I feel as though this ability is too strong during the laning phase and doesn't promote interesting gameplay. Although the damage on this ability isn't too heavy, its cooldown is low enough that you can continually poke the enemy with it in lane when they move up to cs, and the range is just high enough that Shen doesn't have to worry about retaliation from most of the champions that he typically lanes versus. In the event that the enemy can retaliate, Shen can always direct his Vorpal Blade's attention to minions for some regen, assuming he lost the trade. I feel that this ability will likely be changed the most when the current iteration of Shen's rework hits the PBE.

  • Feint (W)

I'll be blunt. There are very few situations in which this ability isn't a waste of energy. The shield is very poor and often doesn't block enough damage to justify the energy used that could have went towards your next Shadow Dash or Vorpal Blade in a fight. I only use this ability when split-pushing in order to get my passive up faster, or for reducing the damage from a turret shot after I tag my opponent under tower with Q, and even still, I only do the latter when I'm sure no one is roaming top to gank me because doing this guarantees that I have no energy to dash away if I find myself in a 2v1 situation.


Shifting focus away from Shen's individual abilities, I'd also like to talk more about Shen's gameplay patterns and what I hope will be fixed when this rework is said and done.

  • "Outsustain me or lose."

No one likes playing against a champion that validates this statement. Seriously, Vlad. Go W into a drain. Anyway, Shen's kit can be frustrating to play against because it sort of promotes this "I'm going to heal up all your damage and eventually force you out of lane" gameplay pattern that isn't healthy for a champion with global presence. Whenever Shen is in a strong spot, he's usually nerfed in some way because of this problem repeatedly rising to the surface. I hope the rework nips this issue in the bud once and for all.

  • "I outsustained you. You lose."

On the flipside of my previous point, champions that outsustain Shen with relative ease put him in a position where he can't really do much in lane due to his low damage. I'm fine with this. Tank shouldn't be doing high damage. What I find to be problematic is that that Shen essentially turns into a wall of clay when playing against heavy sustain champions (no one likes you, Vlad) because heavy sustain champions typically have more damage than Shen and Shen has no defensive steroids to make use of in situations where he cannot whittle down his opponent and slowly regain his health back.

In summary, Shen is too reliant on sustain to win his lane due to his lack of defensive steroids. If he can outsustain his opponent, he will likely win his lane because the enemy will eventually be forced out of lane, freeing him up to hard push and/or ult to another lane to get the snowball rolling there. If he cannot outsustain his opponent, he will likely lose his lane because he has nothing else he can fall back on. It will ultimately be up to Riot to decide if these aspects of his kit are healthy when they do this rework.


I wanted to use this section of the post to talk about different ways of maximizing Shen's effectiveness and things I like about Shen's kit.

  • Slight emphasis on attack speed

Attack speed is really good on Shen because of how his passive's cooldown is lowered by successfully landing basic attacks. I think this is a unique identifier that separates Shen from other tanks and hope it stays part of his kit in some form. (5th or 6th item Wit's End on Shen is really strong, btw. It also gives him that ninja feel when he's dueling someone and has the increased attack speed at his disposal)

  • Shadow Dash -> Flash

There are very few things that feel and look as satisfying to pull off than this. For those of you who are unfamiliar, if you use your Summoner Flash spell before Shadow Dash's animation finishes, your dash will end wherever you end up after using Flash. If you end up on top of an enemy, they will be taunted. This is a really cool way to initiate, and it's also an effective way to catch someone out who doesn't expect to be caught because they were out of your dash's normal range. Although I doubt Riot would remove this, I just wanted to emphasize how satisfying it is to have as part of Shadow Dash's functionality.

I trust Riot to preserve as many of the satisfying and healthy things about Shen's kit as possible when this rework nears completion, but I just wanted to highlight these aspects of Shen that I personally have come to enjoy and hope remain.


Lastly, I wanted to offer a perspective different from the common feedback that Riot has gotten about Shen and his identity. Personally, I think that there's nothing wrong with the idea of a tank being a ninja. Shen still comes really close to that fantasy of moving through the shadows and appearing in a moment's notice when the beauty of the equilibrium is in danger of being upset. Outside of the laning phase he creates an aura of menace for his enemies, making them aware of the fact that the Eye of Twilight is watching them with a gaze that seems to pierce even the Fog of War.

Thanks for reading this if you did, as it was rather long and had no tl;dr. Shameless plug for Shen VU ideas.

6 Comments

Jbels11/22/2015, 7:39:25 PM1 votes

I love how there are all of these @Riot Let's talk (insert champion name here) and not a single one has ever been replied to by a Rioter

Pentch11/22/2015, 7:42:08 PM1 votes

Everyone has been playing Shen support recently and we usually just end up out farming the other team. We don't really have that many opportunities for a "go hard" exchange. Don't get me wrong he's a good support :p

Melledoneus11/22/2015, 10:31:03 PM1 votes

I'm a dedicated Shen main and a big Shen fan (it's starting to get out of control) so I feel obliged to comment on some things. Some I agree with, others not so much, but this is my opinion based on my experiences with Shen. Shen is by far that one champion I can win most lanes with (Fuck you, Fiora), so I can prove that I am addressing issues with mechanics and/or how things play out in the game, rather than me acting my elo.

{quoted} Admittedly, I feel as though this ability is too strong during the laning phase and doesn't promote interesting gameplay. Although the damage on this ability isn't too heavy, its cooldown is low enough that you can continually poke the enemy with it in lane when they move up to cs, and the range is just high enough that Shen doesn't have to worry about retaliation from most of the champions that he typically lanes versus. In the event that the enemy can retaliate, Shen can always direct his Vorpal Blade's attention to minions for some regen, assuming he lost the trade. I feel that this ability will likely be changed the most when the current iteration of Shen's rework hits the PBE.

Shen's Q is his only damaging ability that doesn't force him to go on his enemy. Meaning it's his only upfront useful ability during laning phase that isn't situational and is used a lot to farm up from a distance if Shen would get harassed for that CS. People who use Shen's Q to harass exclusively are either extremely cocky or extremely stupid, because you need to farm to become stronger than your opponent (and pick your fights wisely based on minion waves). Though I do agree it doesn't promote interactive gameplay, maybe it would be best to leave it like that and make W have some synergy with it.

"Outsustain me or lose." No one likes playing against a champion that validates this statement. Seriously, Vlad. Go W into a drain. Anyway, Shen's kit can be frustrating to play against because it sort of promotes this "I'm going to heal up all your damage and eventually force you out of lane" gameplay pattern that isn't healthy for a champion with global presence. Whenever Shen is in a strong spot, he's usually nerfed in some way because of this problem repeatedly rising to the surface. I hope the rework nips this issue in the bud once and for all.

In theory, this makes complete sense. Shen's Q regen would make it difficult to whittle him down in lane and would mean that he could trade and regen to defeat his opponent. However, the numbers have been nerfed repeatedly over the years, meaning it is so weak the heal never really becomes potent at any stage in the game. With a full HP tank build and spirit visage, you'll be lucky to hit 120 health over 3 seconds per auto. It's a terribly weak heal and while it does help him sustain jungle creeps to a certain degree, in lane it makes no sense. You have to get in melee range to utilize it, which almost always means you'll be harassed if your lane opponent isn't stupid or AFK. To be honest, they need to either make the heal useful or shift that power elsewhere, because it's without a doubt the weakest healing mechanic in the game.

Slight emphasis on attack speed Attack speed is really good on Shen because of how his passive's cooldown is lowered by successfully landing basic attacks. I think this is a unique identifier that separates Shen from other tanks and hope it stays part of his kit in some form. (5th or 6th item Wit's End on Shen is really strong, btw. It also gives him that ninja feel when he's dueling someone and has the increased attack speed at his disposal)

I agree FULLY. Attack speed has been so undermined on a champion like Shen, and I find myself buying items to make me tankier rather than Wit's End, to be perfectly honest. It offers too little over the resistances you need to dive the back line. It's more useful to get a item 3102 than a item 3091. I think there needs to be a mechanic that gives him attack speed for building tank (a very slight one, so we don't get Tahm levels of broken) or more items that allow bruisers to get more attack speed while not giving up tankiness as hard.

Shadow Dash -> Flash

Best. Mechanic. Ever. I always use this and it's so fun to pull off. There are so many variations, too, which makes me feel like I'm breaking the game (lol). You can E to taunt someone then flash to jump the champions behind them, E-flash to close distance quickly or catch someone who juked over terrain or a different direction, E someone then flash a different direction to catch more members of the team at awkward angles, etc. If they remove this I will have to throw away my Shen Main license.

Shahamut11/26/2015, 4:39:30 AM1 votes

In a previous statement, RIOT said Shen would be getting a new Passive, Q, and W, while his E and R would remain mostly the same.

As a side note: I also think the idea of a ninja being a tank is just fine. Ninja's were not JUST assassins. They were also battlefield warriors, body guards, and spies.

I hope they do something with his Kit that plays off of the fact that he is the "Eye of Twilight" and makes him a good even matchup vs Zed. Cuz lore. :P