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I seriously think we need to have a discussion about enchanters in this game moving forward

chipndip1·1/4/2020, 7:08:09 PM·37 votes·15,111 views

I made a thread about this before, and it didn't get much traction. For the most part, I got written off as someone that plays 4 million mastery's worth of champions I don't enjoy...somehow. That's not the type of discussion I'm trying to generate with threads like these. What I am trying to do is get the wheel rolling on this topic because I think it's a serious issue with the sub-class. Rather than just generally spraying grievances, however, I'll focus on specific champions as I go so the thread's easier to follow and understand. The main point to get across is this: Enchanter champions generally feel outdated, unsatisfying, and don't vary enough in strengths and weaknesses in League of Legends in 2019. Since this thread's MASSIVE, tldr at the bottom.

Alistar Leona Case 1Blitzcrank Pyke : Weird how I say "Case 1" and I'm not even looking at a specific enchanter, right? That's because this is a specific issue with all of them, and that's that they're SUPER similar in strengths and weaknesses. In a balanced League of Legends, what's the weakness to Soraka? Hard engage (and Grevious Wounds but no one knows what that is so I digress). What's the weakness to Sona? Hard engage. How do you kill Karma? Hard engage. Yuumi? Hard engage. Lulu? Hard engage. Each enchanter shares the same weakness of "Well, if they just all in with burst, I die. If they don't, I just use sustain moves and I'll be straight". The sub-class is defined by sustain so it's not the worst notion to have, but look at warden champs and how different they are? Shen is decently strong for early dueling and split pushes with global presence and AA-canceling fields. Poppy blocks dashing skirmishers, assassins, and divers and ejects fed carries from fights. Braum blocks projectile burst and synergizes with AAs from allies. Taric has aoe invincibility and cc that can be connected off of allies. Super varied play styles with different strengths, weaknesses, and lane positions. Meanwhile enchanters are all funneled into the same general thing of "Heal/shield while trying not to get all-in'd early so you can scale your heal/shield into the later stages of the game...in the non-scaling position". Any time they try to make a different enchanter style, they simply splash "enchanter" as the Senna sub-class to something else Taric. It perpetuates this issue of "all enchanters do the same thing", and they largely do. You see it whenever someone says "Yuumi's just a better Soraka" until Yuumi's nerfed or "Nami's just a better Sona" until Sona's broken (because she occasionally ends up broken) or "Sona's just a better Soraka" or whatever. You don't hear people saying this about most champs in the game...except Vi/Camille, but Vi is in DIRE need of a game play update by now, anyhow (especially with Sett coming out...Vi doesn't even have a W...like REALLY...).

Sona Case 2 Sona : The issue I see with this champion comes in 2 spots.

A: Sona has, for ages now, struggled with giving satisfying feedback when being played. Having your kit be so..."limp dick" unless everyone plays around you just isn't satisfying, and half the time she's seen as a bad champion solely because she feels like a bad champion, even if she's influential in the match.

B: This idea of forcing Sona to be this "insane hyper carry support" has gone on long enough. It runs directly counter to why we want supports in the first place. Supports are here to support late game carries, not BE late game carries (Senna isn't that strong late game before anyone pipes up with Senna. She's an early game carry if she's played carry). Why else would Double Lift play her as a carry so much last year? Because, when it comes to supporting, Sona's kit has been bad for that for years. She literally makes a better bot lane carry than she does a support. Think about how wrong that sounds. Only reason it didn't catch on in solo queue more is because it takes a bit of teamwork to get it down right.

Solution: Sona's needed a game play update (a real one) for years. I doubt it's ever going to happen because DJ Sona exists, but this whole "hyper scaling aura" jig is just not it. I'd personally look at her passive, her Q, and her E as spots for improving the character. Hell, even a new ult could be a spot for improvement. Just give this character real game play.

Lulu Case 3 Janna : Janna and Lulu both dominated the hell out of the Ardent meta. During season 7 worlds, they both garnered 50 games each in the support position, making 100 games in total that had either champ or both in the whole event. Here's the issue.

A: These champs are super similar in what they offer, where Lulu's defense is more focused on singular targets and Janna's is more aoe, but they're still very similar in what they do (cock block diving enemies). This actually isn't that bad (if you want to have defense against diving enemies, but one of these gets banned, you don't want to be perpetually stuck), but what IS bad is how little counter-play there is to this interaction. Janna, to the very least, has SOME nuance to her abilities (charging/preemptive aiming of tornado + either sustaining heal with R or quickly using it to disengage and flee), but Lulu's abilities offer very little in the way of counter-play outside of "Throw more divers at it". It's very uninvolved, static game play...also Lulu looks like a Crash Bandicoot Warped graphics rip.

Solution: Offer a game play update to Lulu, largely focusing on her W and E abilities...maybe her R. It's nice she has strong synergies with marksmen, but she offers so little counter-play when she's good that she's largely problematic. Passive and Q are fine, and I'm honestly decently fine with R, too, but Polymorph needs some nuance to it so opponents can ATTEMPT to attack her team without being hit by the Polymorph -> instantly dead true combo. On Janna's end, W could be a more interesting spell, and E would feel better not being a degrading shield anymore, but she can remain largely the same and it'd be fine.

Soraka Case 4 Soraka : Soraka has had an issue with being toxic to deal with...pretty much forever. Her original kit was filled with auras and auto-aimed attacks, and her new kit was a heal-spamming machine that invalidated lanes. It's only after gutting her early game healing that bot lane was able to break from her grasp, but now the flaws with the character are laid bare. Here's what I see as issues.

A: Soraka does practically nothing but heal. Back in 2010, this would be fine. Now? We could do some more interesting stuff with the character. Hell, they REMOVED the interesting stuff they used to have (sweet spot on Q and the ability to heal more if you hit more people). It'd be more fun if she wasn't so 1-note.

A+1/2: Soraka does practically nothing but heal. Back in 2010, this would be fine. Now? Not only would it be more fun if she had more functionality, but she could definitely use more functionality in some spots. Something that pushes her synergy with at least some class of champions over the other would be grandiose.

Solution: I don't think she needs totally new abilities like Sona or Lulu, per se, because not every enchanter is going to feel safe from ganks and all-ins. It's not their calling card. What I do think Riot should do is give Soraka's existing abilities new elements. Soraka used to have magic resist shred on her Q. Honestly, that would be REALLY COOL to have. Maybe add a different buff to her W when she recently lands Q instead of that wimpy gradual heal? I don't think you'd have to do an insane amount to make Soraka more fun, engaging, and useful to have (without being overtuned and without relying on people forgetting item 3123 exists).

Janna Lulu Sona Case 5 Soraka Yuumi Karma : This last point is a point for all enchanters (and by extension, all supports, honestly). What I'd like to point out is that Riot plays it super fucking safe with the types of buffs/debuffs enchanters provide in ways that kind of baffle me.

Most of what enchanters do is heal, shield, buff movement speed, root or stun, and slow. There's some nuances, like attack speed buffs or damage-amping to AAs, but it largely boils down those 5 things in some fashion. Meanwhile there's plenty of ideas for how you could support your team being dished out to non-support champs.

Malphite Fiora : AS debuff Evelynn Amumu : Magic resist shred (seriously why is this on Evelynn?) Tryndamere : AD debuff Gangplank : Literally QSS Garen : Burst resistance/tenacity buff Kled / Katarina : In-kit Grevious Wounds Graves Quinn : Near-sight Swain : Synergy with other people's hard cc

Look, I'm not saying "Give enchanters all the stupidly crazy effects". What I am saying is that we've BEEN lacking creativity in this space for a long time and there's no reason for it when we're able to give an assassin MR shred and a late game hyper carry a Quicksilver Orange. I'm not even asking for these exact same kit elements, but I AM asking for Riot to be more creative when it comes to future work on enchanter kits and the types of things they're allowed to do instead of creating different ways to ultimately do the exact same thing. It'd be more interesting and make nuance between picking one or the other more meaningful.

TLDR/Summary: Enchanters as a class are very static characters that largely offer the same benefits in the support position and lack creativity in their implementation in the game. Some, like Sona, desperately need attention in the form of an update. Others aren't as bad, but could definitely use a touch-up to modernize and/or diversify their game play. Although I wasn't able to talk about each champion (primarily Karma), I hope I was able to get my point across in how much I think Riot's been slacking with this sub-class. As far as I've seen, the only other sub-class Riot's been dropping the ball on harder than enchanters are artillery mages...and that's a whole other can of worms.

120 Comments

Illabethe1/4/2020, 7:36:41 PM10 votes

Sona's big issue is they thought that throttling her early game cooldowns AND scaling as utility would somehow result in enjoyable play. Her early game is spent entirely vulnerable and on cooldown, for small effects. Late game behaves like other enchanters.

Neither Lulu nor Janna were considered top tier Ardent users. They were tanked 5th and 6th respectively, because of how often and how many people they could affect at once. The reason was simply increases in Lulu's Q scaling, passive shotgun, and a reduction of Poly's cooldown. Janna was given on hit damage, given some of her Q AP scaling back.

Other than that, I'm not going to comment on them, because I don't specialize in them.

Soraka: I do 17-20k damage in a 25 minute game. I don't know what you're talking about with damage. The distinction is simply that Soraka players are not actually Soraka players on average. They are fill supporters who see her as an RP cheap, easy to play alternative. And thus, they EMBRACE THE HEAL.

In reality, Soraka's a "Martyr." She's designed to take damage to heal others. She is literally designed to be the "Tank of enchanters." If you play her like that, and are an aggressive Q poker, you'll find she has plenty of damage. The real challenge is just knowing when you CAN play like this, and when you shouldn't. (Lee Sin/Jax/Yi all make her miserable along with many assassins; she hard counters Mordekaiser though)

I'll leave you to the topic though; You do have a point and I do support the premise.

ModKnightsKemplar1/5/2020, 7:48:56 PM5 votes

I like a lot of what you wrote, but honestly you missed my main desire for supports. They desperately need skill expression.

I'm talking skillshots. I'm talking harder timing. I'm talking weird abilities that are hard to pull off correctly. It seems you don't think Taric is a real enchanter, but he has good enchanter abilities that demonstrate what I'm trying to say.

Look at Taric R. It's not a skillshot, but the timing is uber important in ways that most people don't appreciate. It's ridiculously easy to use too early and screw your entire team over. Most people notice when you use it too late. Few people understand how bad it is to use it too early. This is good nuance. It adds depth.

Look at Taric Q. It is an instant heal... but using it well is difficult because of the stacking mechanic. Use it too infrequently and your teammates might die too fast. Use it too much and you heal so much less for the mana you spend. It's interesting. It's hard. And it requires play from the Taric player that doesn't have to infuriate the enemy. Like, ok, I do infuriate the enemy when I keep a carry alive against 2 divers at once, but at least people think "Damn, that Taric player is fire." Not, "what a shit champ that's so unfair." The difference is the complexity.

This is what Janna, Soraka, Sona, and Lulu need. We still don't have a skillshot heal in this game (no, don't count Senna ult). All three of these champs have a point and click ability as their main healing or shielding ability (2 for Lulu if you count ult). They are instant. They have normal, linear cooldowns. There is nothing interesting about them. They need to be Taric-ified.

Yes, they could all have nuances that allowed you to pick one over the other, etc. Differentiation would help. But I see the bigger issue as depth. Longer casting times. More skillshots or weird skill mechanics. There is so much space in this game for creativity with shields and heals. I want to see some designers tackle that. Don't just sell the theme with skill names and types. Make the skills themselves tell a story and challenge the player to master the champion.

Salty Mc Feed1/4/2020, 8:08:11 PM4 votes

If you honestly think Grievous Wounds ( especially at the current excessive 40%/60% level) would be part of a balanced League of Legends we probably won't agree on much. Riots (imo really stupid and delusional) philosophy is that they leave GW in the game so they can push the strengths of healing champions. I don't need to tell you how that works in reality. They consider effects like GW a "release valve" that you only buy when you are facing too many healing champions but that you wouldn't buy just to counter a single champion. In reality being against Soraka alone is enough to make an executioner the most valuable item you could possibly buy, because it's dirt cheap for the impact it has. The only reason why Soraka's heals are not even more overtuned is because statistically there are enough morons who think they don't need the healing reduction.

Sett a trap1/4/2020, 10:43:26 PM3 votes

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RedCyclone1/5/2020, 1:02:35 AM3 votes

The debuff thing has always baffled me, it's an whole slew of tools that would actually be helpful for enchanters specifically, healers in games typically come with heals, buffs AND debuffs but it's more of a rare thing in LoL I am suprised no one at Riot has thought of a support concept that mainly focuses around making your enemies weaker, it's not exactly a groundbreaking game breaking concept

It would be neat to have Riot go through some enchanter kits and put in some more fitting debuffs, but don't treat it the same way they treat utility ratios because they were criminally un-adjusted

IP Masquerena1/4/2020, 7:36:53 PM2 votes

Long time no see, really missed your threads.

Now, back on the topic.

I fully agree with you relating enchanters and sure, they need something done about them, but it ultimately comes down to the class itself, their core designs are to do exactly that, shield, heal, buff and debuff, so the best start would simply be to look at the class as a whole and see if there's any way to change their role that is "to make the ADC look good", because as long as that remains as the main characteristic of enchanters, they won't be able to get any major stuff beside changing the champs to mages and removing the class altogether.

Blue Shift1/5/2020, 1:25:00 PM1 votes

I think the inherent flaw with your argument is that you are forgetting that an enchanter's job is to enhance their carries. Their job isn't to protect them or disengage for them. They only inherent these when they start mixing with other classes like Janna. She is a control type enchanter who has some enchanter abilities like her shield/damage boost, her ult heal, and her passive movement speed, but she is also half control mage with her knock up, knock back, and slow. This is the reason Riot are so bad at balancing, they have no idea what classes are and how to define them. They tried once years ago and failed, so they never tried again.

You say they all do the same thing, being movement speed, attack speed, heal/shield, etc... That there is nothing "new". This is because there isn't a whole lot more you can do to buff someone. Of course there are still some things out there, but not many. Their job is meant to make up for some of the weaknesses ADCs have. Sustain, survivability, slow movement speed, etc...

The design/balance team tread a fine line of making things new and fun, and risk making things that are way too good to be in the game, or making them "generic", and having them just be another one of the other 150 or so champions.

For example Yuumi, she's "new" and something that is fun to play. She introduces the new mechanic of tethering to someone, making one person worth two. Things like pulls and CC are worth a lot more because you essentially hit two people with one ability.

The problem with this new mechanic, however, is the fact that it is such a powerful mechanic to have, being able to hide the squishy support forever, that the rest of her kit needs to be much lower than a normal enchanter to balance it out.

This is why they had to force her down to something like 40% winrate. They just tried pushing back into relevancy with some balance updates and we are all paying the price.

I think a good thing to do is have enchanters in other roles that isn't just support, for example old Nunu. His old W where it gave a lot of attack speed, movement speed, and ability power. He had one stat for AD champs, one for AP champs, and one for everyone. He was interesting because his main class wasn't enchanter.

The problem with this though is the fact that each class has it's own stigma. Assassins are for the toxic people, Enchanters are for the e-girls, etc...

Not that they aren't true, I just wish Riot would experiment more with champions rather than "this champion is a support marksman, we are giving her abilities for that class and nothing else". Whereas if Old Nunu were to come out, what would they say?

He is centered around the jungle due to his consume being good at killing monsters, but you can also take him in a solo lane due to his sustain and good damage. He also has an enchanting ability really good if you want to play in a more supportive style of gameplay.