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Can we talk about Karma as a champ (gameplay, itemization, competitive) and her identity ?

Queen Sansa·9/4/2017, 10:13:20 AM·24 votes·2,958 views

Im a Karma avid fan. When I started playing this game last year, I was looking for a champ that could sustain and deal damage and have a very distinct and unique playstyle/identity. I started playing when Karma received her E buff early season 6 and I was spectating a mate's ARAM game and there she was , A STRONG INDEPENDANT WOMAN OF COLOR WHO DONT NEED NO MAN (memes aside) Karma

Before I discovered her, I thought League was kinda dull and too complex but when I bought her my gaming world just changed. I practiced her day and night constantly throughout my last year. I climbed from Bronze 5 where I was placed to Gold 4 mostly because of her. I didnt care if support role sucked back then, all I knew she could do damage and shield allies if Im behind. I learned a lot of macros (map awareness, waves) through Karma. Within a year I managed to score top 15 most mastery in EUW as Karma.

People see my club tag and they be like why the f would you main a support champ!? We dont choose OTP champ, they choose us.

Now onto gameplay.

I wasnt here to play old Karma but Im pretty well informed about her abilities.

Old Karma;

Passive; lower hp, higher AP

Q; cone aoe abilities, RQ; heals W; creates tether that slows enemies and speeds up allies E; shield, RE; shield bomb R; basically similar to current R but rechargable with longer CD

Riot decided to rework her into the Karma that she is today.

Passive; attacks and skills reduces mantra CD Q; skill shot RQ; larger skillshot with more dmg W; tether root RW; longer tether root and heals E; speed shield RE; AOE speed shield

Now lets talk about it. I might not be a high elo player (Im low plat https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=twink4daddy). But I really love Karma and RIOT needs to change her because shes literally the worst in terms both supports and midlaner. Even when shes played in mid lane, Karma players tend to buy support items ( Athene Redemption Ardent).

Hers what I think of Karma after gathering 700k MP total from smurfs and main;

I. KARMAS KIT AND IDENTITY. Karma has identity issue. PERIOD.

  • She has burst mage-y playstyle with her Q. But late game landing her Q or really doing any reliable damage as Karma could be dangerous for Karma and tbh even if she lands it, its not enough with just one damaging skill shot. Here Im talking about Q and RQ as using W or auto attacks puts her too close as a burst mage. I dont think theres much to discuss on this as most non-Karma mains that played her have tried Morellonomicon Luden magic pen in at least ARAMs and see her huge ass damage.

  • The problem in 5v5 Summoners Rift for a midlane Karma is that since she maxes QEW, she practically has Q as damaging skill. Sure the ratio is decent but one skillshot isnt enough for a burst mage midlaner. And being able to land it during late game is another story. Its so hard in a meta Riot loves with tanks and theres no way to reach backline to deal RQ onto carries unless they misstep. A lot of times I find myself holding onto RQ too long to use it effectiely that the best way to use my ult is just RE (aoe shield my allies)

  • so thats why shes more preferred in the support role where she can still do damage early game but late game doesnt fall behind being able to provide huge utility and aoe shield for team with E and RE. Her Q becomes a minor peeling tool.

  • RE is so good in coordinated teamplayed as shown in the competitive played. She was even rewarded a skin for mainly this reason especially after the Locket of Solari nerf because her RE is practically one of the two LoS abilities (the other one being Sona)

  • . And for some of us Karma mains who have figured out, her kit is very well suited as a battle mage ala Vladimir. We tried tank Karma with items that boost up healing. Why do we do this? Well lets look at her kit.

  • Her passive Gathering Fire; reduces cd on her ult each time Karma hits enemy with her damaging abilities or auto attacks. How do we maximize this? By getting in range and use AA (using attack speed runes help)/ her short range W/Q to keep her R on very low CD.

  • Her Q gives her ability to kite. And since Q practically her damaging skill (most Karmas max QEW anyway), those who opt for battle mage-y playstyle opt for Sheen items (Iceborn Gauntlet and to less extend Lich bane). Her Q + (wit AS runes) auto attacks gives her pretty niche ability to kite while being able to sustain with;

  • Her W. W roots and with RW it heals and roots enemy with fairly huge hp (if players go for tankier build) and her RW was one of the longest root in game too. Not sure about now. This adds point to her being able to kite and why Karma mains play her tanky

  • Her E speeds up. All the more reasons to add to 1c discussion.

however Riot made it clear that they dont like this playstyle and therefore the nerf to her W.

II. ** PLAYSTYLE**. Ok lets talk about this;

  • Karma was made in a flexible way so she can be played in multiple roles (mid, support, and even top but it has been mentioned Riot doenst like Karma to be played tanky , I respect that eventhough I love battle mage-y Karma the most).

  • Her kit makes her able to fit in that spot. Because her Q makes her able to be a burst mage and E retains her as a support. But her passive and Q? They fit much more for a close combat (battle mage) but as Ive said multiple times, they dont like that kind of playstyle. What gives?

  • Her passive and W both rewards her for being close and doesnt fit her identity as a burst/artilery mage nor an enchater. Rakan, Taric being enchaters that need to be close / battle range have innate tankiness/resistance via their passive/ kit with Taric having a_dditional armor+shield+heal_ while Rakan has TRIPLE SHIELDS and a heal when they need to engage and stun. What does Karma have to secure a cc and walks out of it safely? A tether root that requires her to face tank enemies and overnerfed shield?

  • The problem right now is Riot made a flexible champ that has bursty/artillery damaging Q but has no follow up damaging skills, and since shes lackluster as a damage dealer in the midlane shes kinda pushed into the support lane still being able to retain mage playstyle in the early game but late game she has massive teamfighting AoE speed boost and shield, as a support. Flexible right? The next problem is her only viable reason to be played is nerfed, being shield bot. And with Doran shield and better enchanters, poke supports dont do well at all in this meta (Brand Velkoz Zyra) so eventhough she might be good early game eith her poke she needs to ensure her botlane gets ahead. Another problem is, when real Karma mains found another playstyle that gives her uniqueness as a flexible champ, IE being played as a battle mage with ROA Sheen items, it was nerfed a few days in the PBE after it hit reddits Hot page. LOL? Even so this playstyle is very lackluster because she doesnt have enough innate tankiness and waveclear. She might have nice sustain with ROA IBG Visage but has practically no wave clear later into the game and when she opts something like GLP/ROA Lich Bane Zhonya ala Kassadin, shes still suffering from not being tanky enough. She just have a relatively nice sustain to deal constant damage with her RW Q and E

III. ABILITIES NUMBERS AND RATIO. Karma relies heavily on numbers. If her number is large shes playable and if her numbers nerfed shes practically unplayable in ranked to climb. Nerf the numbers and look at her now. Her damage hasnt suffered any substantial damage but her utilities have. Why should anyone play Karma mid with Morello Luden anyways when there are much more viable burst mages out there. There are other burst/control mages with supportive kits such as Orianna and Lux. Theyre are very niche in the support role but does better in the midlane being able to provide some sort of utility even when theyre behind. But Karma? Karma cant root enemies safely when behind , her speed boosts have been nerfed , her shield value has been nerfed.

tldr on Karmas number;

  • her damaging skill Q as a BURST MAGE has good number but she suffers a lot from her kit because she cant follow up with another damaging skills unlike Orianna or Lux

  • when behind her utility or rather her ability to provide utility isnt good enough with W putting her too close to enemies and hving her numbers nerfed too much following new items introduction

  • the only good thing about her regardless in any stages of the game (RE) has been nerfed too much and if they up it, she might be pick and ban in the competitve scene. and as far as i recall, when she was popular last season, her winrate and pick rate wasnt really high, it has always been subpar 48-50%.

IV. Itemization. The meta right now (at least for enchanter) is to make use of shield/heal items as much as possible. In an attempt to balance enchanters around these items, Karma was again nerfed. Its also the reason why Jannas so busted now.

I think my essay has been written too long now. As a conclusion / tldr, Karma has huge identity issue and she suffers a lot from that and itemization.

All I hope as a Karma main is that she is reworked into the state Lux/ Orianna are. They are mages with supportish skills, they are to go to the midlane but retains that supportish identity with utilities. They can go to supports but are just not as good. The reason why some enchaters that deal damage that are not Karma and still thrives ( Sona ) is that she has a solid ult. Even when shes behind she can provide that aoe stun. She doesnt have to get close to provide that utility being the squishy forbidden idol enchater. And when there are enchaters that need to get close they have masssive innate sustain/ resistance such as Taric having a crapload of heal/shields/additional armor and Rakan having 3 shields, a heal and huge mobility,

MAKE KARMA Karma GREAT AGAIN

50 Comments

REDREX79/4/2017, 5:05:32 PM7 votes

Karma does incredible damage. You guys complain Karma does not deal enough damage to be considered a burst mage. She has incredible damage if you guys would actually max W second. Not to mention Karma should be rushing 45% cdr so she can Mantra Q twice on the same target in 2.75 seconds. The combo is to hold R for 7 seconds, Mantra Q, E yourself to land your W and some autos then Mantra Q again. Karma is a better version of Lux because Karma has a lower cd on her burst and has more survive ability. Karma has a low win rate mid because people build support items on her mid and wonder why they cant compete in terms of damage. Karma is in a league with Lux and Orianna as it is but players are not building these ap items mid. They keep building ardent sensor or athenes. With that being said I agree Karma can use some changes to give her another damaging ability somewhere on her kit. She just needs one more damaging ability and she is golden.

IxtaliKing9/4/2017, 4:56:57 PM4 votes

Hey Twink4Daddy, I'd like to start by saying I absolutely agree with your assessment of Karma's issues. These are all things actual Karma mains have been saying for the past 2 years and have been ridiculed for pointing out. Many of us have taken several stabs at suggestions to "make Karma great again", so far my suggestions are:

  • Passive: Revert Mantra refund to 2 seconds at all ranks. I also support moving this current passive to her Mantra and giving her a new one. Karma should have to work a little harder for more mantras.

  • Q: Lower damage and lower CD. Make Q a little bit more of a sustained damage tool.

  • RQ: tweak numbers to maintain the same overall mid-late game nuke potential, add a scaling slow and make the spell a ground targeted projectile. Gives mid Karma better/easier wave clear, and gives support Karma more control over the RQ placement for utility purposes (controlling movement, blocking chokepoints, setting up ganks etc...).

  • W: More ticks. Karma's W being a DoT makes sense for a Battlemage, and if it were up to me I'd have this spell tick 5 times in those 2 seconds. With the nerfed passive it would reward her for staying within range of her enemy.

  • RW: Give this spell an ally function. I'd suggest simply allowing Karma to give up her self heal to an ally, and bring back her tether clothesline mechanic. It could deal 50% of the enemy casts total damage upfront to enemies who pass through it, whilst briefly slowing or rooting them.

  • For the enemy cast, revert the bonus root to bonus damage and make the heal a flat heal with a smaller missing hp component and AP ratio.

  • E: The base shield on this at the moment is disgusting, it can barely block a single ability at any point in the game. I'd suggest either letting E scale up to at least 200, for just buffing the AP ratio.

  • RE: Shield bomb. Forget Ivern for a sec, his shield explodes when it's finished. Karma's shield bomb explodes into existence, and it needs to do this again. I don't care whether it's the same reworked shield bomb we got in 3.5 (mediocre damage + weaker AoE shield), or a delayed/telegraphed shield bomb with more damage, she just needs this ability restored.

Pyrophilia9/4/2017, 6:51:33 PM3 votes

You are all beautiful people. My spirit's fire has been quenched, however, and I have faltered, so I don't have anything to contribute with because I just play other champs now.

item 3110

Weiss Guertena9/4/2017, 8:11:44 PM3 votes

{quoted}

Old Karma;

Passive; lower hp, higher AP

Q; cone aoe abilities, RQ; heals W; creates tether that slows enemies and speeds up allies E; shield, RE; shield bomb R; basically similar to current R but rechargable with longer CD

Riot decided to rework her into the Karma that she is today.

Passive; attacks and skills reduces mantra CD Q; skill shot RQ; larger skillshot with more dmg W; tether root RW; longer tether root and heals E; speed shield RE; AOE speed shield

When you describe her abilities this way you describe everything wrong with Karma. These changes butchered her in 3 ways:

1.) Her identity. Entire duality concept got trashed and Mantras simply enhance what the ability already does instead of adding something. This also made her much more bland as the whole "X-> more X" concept is dull.

2.) Decision making. With old Karma you had to think on what Mantra to use since all your abilities were both offensive and defensive in nature. With new Karma deciding on which mantra to use is braindead, as there is always one which is best for the situation by far, significantly lowering the amount of skill expression she has.

3.) Balance issues. For Karma to be strong in any role, one of her abilities has to be overtuned. If she wants to be a mage she needs to do damage but she only has Q to do it reliably - so it needs to be overpowered. If she wants to be a tanky battlemage, her W is her only source of CC and sustain so it needs to overperform. And don't even get me started on AoE speed shield for support Karma - Sivir has been nerfed multiple times over for her AoE boost and that one is an ultimate.

ZapMyHeart9/5/2017, 6:41:20 PM3 votes

You know what's tragic?

Heimerdinger has a better Mantra system than Karma.

Want DPS/Zone control? RQ Want to overkill someone? RW Want AoE utility? RE

ZapMyHeart9/4/2017, 11:28:27 PM2 votes

A lot of her issues stems from her kit pulling her into various roles, but doesn't provide enough oomph for any lane she chooses.

Old Karma had an identity as a mid-ranged late game AP battlemage that dealt damage in chunks, but had survivability to keep up the pressure due to how her passive interacted with her Q and E. If she isn't focused, she will make sure your team is ACED, while making sure no one on her team is dead as well.

This current one wants to be everything - Poke mage (with Q), Burst mage (E->W->RQ), Tank (E->Q->RW), Engager/Disengager (RE on team). It's a hot mess because it creates all these various identities for her to respond to multiple situations, but at the cost of her not having a coherent enough theme nor capabilities to truly shine. Simply put, she's a generalist. But unlike other generalists who are hot picks (e.g. Lee Sin), she really doesn't have much going for her.

Hochelaga9/5/2017, 3:59:44 PM1 votes

Wrote a featured Karma guide on Lolking.net. Here's my opinion;

Karma isn't lacking an identity, I would just say she's versatile. She doesn't excel in anything, but can be plugged anywhere

Her R+Q does wonder damage mixed with her W root. Most people tend to max her shield before W which is why we don't see her burst down champions. Also, on late game we tend to avoid to be too close of the ennemies by fear of getting 1 hit. Unlike other mages that can basically kill you once you get CC'ed, Karma requires more time and patience to be effective. The longuer battle last, better is Karma.

She can sometime spam her mantra so quickly when people get hit by her spells that she can have access to R+Q more frequently than an average spell mage champ. Thinking of Lux, Vel koz and brand for example.

Why people also think that she doesn't burst is the fact that they rush Ardent censer and cdr boots. This is not an optimal choice for a Mage....

All that being said, I miss her shield bomb and her old cone like fan spell (Q) and wouldn't mind for a small update on Karma.

BobaFlautist9/5/2017, 6:12:41 PM1 votes

Battlemages are a bit of a tricky concept - they're a lot like juggernauts, if juggernauts were ranged mages. They need to be able to beat poke and burst mages within their effective range, or they'd be unable to lane - they're also sorta designed to do well against tanks and divers, they're the scrappy durable front-liners of the mage class.

The problem is, when you have a mage with enough burst/dps to work their way through bruisers and tanks, enough durability/sustain to scrap with the big boys (and survive poke as they approach/lane against more standard mages) and enough range/aoe to qualify as a mage, you get this weird hybrid juggermage that either hits critical mass and rolls over you, or doesn't hit critical mass and doesn't.

It's like if you made Kogm'maw into a mage with hard cc and aoe burst. And made him shorter range, hut compensated with instead durability.

Swain, vlad, cass, arguably malz - battlemages are either a huge menace, or...they aren't.

So if you wanna take your favorite one-trick champion, and focus their identity iver being a battlemage, make sure you know what you're getting into and make sure you've figured out how people are going to be able to ever win fights against her, other than "be longer ranged and kite". Because that's fine for Darius, a little harder for someone like karma.

meowwow79/4/2017, 10:38:59 AM1 votes

for me karma is too item reliant as a support for her to stay in range for the tether to be effective she would need the item 3098 quest or item 3116 but considering most people now these days go for item 3096 for the gold gen they are missing out on a lot more and what you said about her going battle mage that leaves out her shield because it's weak on it's own unless ulted so you won't be able to use item 3222 item 3504 item 3174 to boost it and since you aren't using those items you're going to go oom a lot quicker so in the long run she just needs a rework/overhual

jocomotion9/10/2017, 10:14:07 PM1 votes

I absolutely love this, you tackle the problems karma has been facing for so long so well. I'd like to add my own two cents to the matter in order to keep this thread going. In terms of karma's play style she's extremely flexible and that, (as far as I've seen at least), is one of the major reasons people enjoy/main her. If karma wants to support, she can, or she could mid, or even top. But this comes with some drawbacks. This versatility means karma can't be REALLY good at one particular thing otherwise the other two risk being overpowered. So in order to balance her out, riot made her super number reliant, and that caused more problems than it fixed. Sure some of the changes where well and good, like removing two stacks of mantra from the old kit and getting rid of the ability to shield minions, but then again some changes where unwarranted and a bit questionable. Like getting rid of her old sources of damage (RE bomb, RW clothesline) in exchange for higher Q damage. And you're right, this made karma too reliant on her Q and E. And with the nerfs to her E she's in an even worse spot than pre shield buff karma was.

I think to fix karma she needs more Utility in her kit, but I don't mean just supportive utility, but utility in all her roles.

Passive

Karma's passive is pretty core to her kit, it grants a lot of skill expression for karma players who are able to utilize this in order to keep their ult cooldown up, but this is easier for karma to do when she's tankier, which sucks. This also doesn't give karma much in-game skill expression or identity. In my opinion the best passives are the ones that make the champion unique, not all of them need to be super powerful but they need to keep the champions kit together. Look at Jhin's whisper for a strong example, or Soraka's Salvation, they both do a great job at executing what these champs are meant to be. Karma's passive doesn't do that all too well, and even though I feel it's a good passive I think riot could put more skill expression into it for ALL roles rather than having tankier versions of karma easily abuse it.

Inner flame/Soulflare I completely agree with you here. Karma's Q isn't necessarily overloaded in terms of its effects. A mid-long range AP skill shot that damages and slows enemies in a short area, overall its a pretty standard ability that fits as a primary damage tool. But the primary damage tool is WAAAAAY too over-relied on. I'd recommend toning back some of the damage Q deals, but then you'd have the opposite problem of "karma's main source of damage doesn't deal enough damage". So I recommend riot find some way to make the Q strong without relying on it's upfront damage. Maybe it could tick over time, maybe it has a stronger slow, maybe it travels through units, maybe it deals more damage to healthier targets, ive seen many proposals here. But the fact remains that karma's kit right now relies too heavily on her Q. TL:DR karma needs to rely on this less in ALL of her roles (excluding maybe top lane tank) and have her Q be strong in another way.

Focused resolve/Renewal I've noticed a strange trend with this one. A lot of karma players state this skill is pretty weak in most cases, and I would agree. But people who play against karma say this skill is annoying as hell to play against because it's point and click CC (although delayed). On top of that the heal is either worthless or just really annoying to play against. So what's the problem here? I feel like when it comes to the base W, it's too unreliable. Sure it can root someone but when you're squishy it could also get you killed. So either riot could: A: Make it harder to root people but more rewarding B: give it an ally effect so it's not completely useless if karma can't go in the fight C: Add some damage effects to it Honestly I'm least sure about what to do with this ability, it helps battle mage karma keep her identity but not every version of karma can use it effectively, as for the ult, Just pull an ekko and change the ratio's so it's not useless on support/mage karma, and still usable to some extent.

Inspire/Defiance I feel as if this is simple, but riot can't seem to figure it out. On the damage side, karma needs more ways to damage other champions without having to rely on Q. Simply stated, BRING HER SHIELD BOMB BACK. It still dumbfounds me why it was removed in the first place. On the utility side of things, karma's shield is also lacking. Before, Karma was a meta support because the shield buff made her shield the best Number wise. Obviously this wasn't healthy so riot nerfed it to the point where it is now. But when you clook at karma shields compared to other supports karma's E actually lacks in UTILITY. Janna -grants a shield and AD, can shield towers Lulu - grants a shield and on hit effect- can use E Offensively as well Taric AND Orianna -grants a shield and defensive stats, these defensive bonuses are permanent and other abilities stem from shielded target Karma -grants a shield and movement speed bonus, but nothing else. Before, karma could shield minions. and honestly I'm glad that riot took that out, but it left karma lacking utility compared to other shielding champions. I'd recommend giving karma's base shield an extra effect of some kind, maybe damage done to she shield damages the attacker in some way, maybe the shield is more powerful the less health the champ shielded has, maybe the maybe the shield could be used offensively to grant karma another source of damage. Any way you slice it, this ability needs something added to it.

Mantra And finally the core of karma's kit. Honestly I have no problems with the ult alone, an ability that does nothing on its own, but buffs other abilities is an amazing idea. However there is a reoccurring problem with the other abilities that are ulted. Top karma relies too much on RW to survive, Mid Karma relies too heavily on RQ to deal damage, and Support karma (is actually the most fair but still) relies too heavily on RE to be useful. I feel like riot needs to change each of the ulted moves so that any role karma plays could use them to some effectiveness. Support: If support karma uses RQ she's loosing an opportunity to shield as much as possible If a support karma uses RW... why doesn't she just RE herself?

Mid: If mid Karma uses RW she's probably still going to die because the only reason she'd do that is if she's already low If mid karma uses RE she looses out on almost all of her potential damage until mantra comes back up.

Top RQ: waveclear I guess, but even then why risk a potential attack? RE: most likely weak since tank karma doesn't build a lot of AP

Death by Glamour9/4/2017, 11:25:49 AM1 votes

Will post more later on

She needs a rework away from the RQ mid RE shop playstyle.

bloom9/4/2017, 11:27:24 AM1 votes

I played a lot with karma (actually over 100k mp on main acc) mostly as supp (buliding item 3151 item 3089 item 2301 item 3504 item 3158 because your shield is strong anyways and ability that can take down 1/2hp is serious deal) and as "safe pick" midlaner because its almost impossible to kill karma 1 vs 1 until 25min. What i realized? Her kit is pretty much about skill and proper decisions (using proper upgrades according to circumstances) which makes that champion very funny to play, also playing as Karma is easy way to learn more about the game, strategy & and meaning of good choices even if she is not easy champion (Imo Karma is one of the successful champions riot ever made). On the flipside she's struggling in late phase of game due to her splitted indentity (im talkin' about midlane/ap support karma) on one side she's utility mage, on second she's burst mage that have to get very close to kill somebody with single combo (W+RQ+aa+thunderlord its enough to take almost every squishy champion down) and there is no problem until there is no enemy's front line that can easly interrupt the second. My thought on solving the problem: her Q is biggest issue and cause of her "splitted indentity", its should be something that gives her sustain dmg instead of burst also her passive feels rather like passive part of her ult (and imo it belongs there) than passive, so she should get new 1.

In addition: whatever you will do with her DO NOT CHANGE her W pls its best part of her kit.

dreadnoughtus019/4/2017, 11:56:57 AM1 votes

claps

Thanks for explaining the core issues with Karma. She has severe identity crisis issues that pulls her in multiple different directions, a kit that doesn't really mesh that well, overtuned itemization which lead to preemptive nerfs when Karma wasn't really the problem, and basically only one viable way to play her (enchanter) that has been nerfed into the ground because enchanters as class don't really have counter-play.

Old Karma had a stronger identity and was more unique. I still don't understand why they gave Ivern a shield bomb when that was a way to make Karma less generalist (i wasn't even around for old karma and im' still salty).

Riot needs to sit down and figure out what they want from her kit. I think it's possible to make her a hybrid burst and battle mage, but if they balance her around enchanter it's going to severely limit her ability to play other roles (we see that with basically all the other enchanters).

W is the weirdest ability that doesn't really fit with the rest of her kit, requiring her to be close when everything else about her says keep a distance. She only has two sources of damage and one's incredibly unreliable lol.

And RE is so strong that forces all roles (even tank sometimes!) to itemize for it.

They need to shift power away from her utility, rework E (shield reflector like a mini-thorn-mail would nice!) and W, and maybe look over her passive and her Ult. I've heard other people bring this up, but her old Ult that had recharges but with internal cds for each would encourage Karma to use ALL of her mantras.

Anyway I just hope Riot has a clear idea on what they want to do and give a strong and unique identity while retaining elements of what made both new and old Karma fun (hint an offensive shield would help).

Melledoneus9/4/2017, 10:12:40 PM1 votes

Given her lack of FANS, she won't get much attention.

Jokes aside, this is very well thought out and I agree wholeheartedly with many of these. Some follow-up would be nice, but in a way to make it less oppressive than Lux or Orianna.

Snake Prince9/5/2017, 3:17:00 PM1 votes

With her thematic and base gameplay , riot could have made her one of the champions with the highest skill cap with double R activation with a new passive and different upgrades . but w/e they just buffed her e , banned her into bot lane and then nerfed her E hehehhehehehehehehehe .

And no Karma doesn't deserve the be like Ori or Lux , playing safe whole laning phase and just occasionally poking zzzzz . She should be a good risk good reward champ with a great skill cap , and not something that cant kill her opponent unless she pokes to death for 5 min and that cant be killed bc of a safe kit .