@Meddler / @Riot Can we discuss this before you do something unnecessary?

ScreamPaste·5/7/2015, 12:53:07 AM·5 votes·685 views

So there are Riven nerfs on the PBE. I'd like to ask why that is. I could post whatever suppositions I have on the subject, but they'd just be my thoughts and suspicions, and not overly useful.

So I'm leaving this at a question, why are changes being tossed around for her?

Her win rate in diamond is up, yes, but her play rate is down. The same thing happened when LB's silence was removed. Off the top of my head Riven's play rate since the introduction of Cinderhulk has seen a drop of 20% or more, I think? Most of the people who play her with a 50% of higher win rate at diamond+ could be considered mains with over a hundred games with her just this season. The meta is already pretty hostile to her, and no beneficial changes have been made for her.

TL;DR, pls no? :(

16 Comments

kcStranger5/7/2015, 2:27:49 AM4 votes

I think the thing to keep in mind with this nerf is that Riot's main goal with champion balance is not actually to put all the champions on an even playing field (even supposing that was possible given the different balance demands of solo vs. 5v5 and low-tier vs. high-tier play). Above all, they're trying to make the game fun. I'm just guessing at their intentions, but my read on the situation is this: Riven is a champion who, when mastered, wrecks solo queue because of her skirmish potential. She's also fairly mobile, allowing her a pretty good deal of freedom in choosing her fights (again, especially in solo queue). I think the idea of the changes is to cut down on her mobility (mitigating her ability to engage/escape, which can be pretty oppressive/unfun) and to open up a little more counterplay around the ult (a little more chance to dodge it). In short, the changes are meant to open up a little more counterplay against a champion who's difficult to play against with uncoordinated teams.

Now, do I think the changes are needed strictly from a balance perspective? No. The fact that Riven is basically never seen in pro play (although certainly a bunch of pros mess around with her in solo queue) should make that fairly clear. As you point out, her win rate also is not that high until Diamond, and I for one am OK with the idea of having champions who take some work to master but reward you by being very strong once you have mastered them. But, there are other factors at work here.

For what it's worth, I think this is part of a larger pattern. Katarina, Yasuo, Lee Sin, Nidalee...all these are champions who, when strong, lead to play patterns that are unfortunately quite frustrating for a large number of people. (I personally am not too sensitive to this kind of stuff, but the number of people who still complain about Lee Sin despite his crap winrate and bad teamfighting is astounding.) Eventually, they may be headed for reworks. (Unfortunately, a lot of champions need reworks of some kind...) In the meantime, I think Riot is trying to put their balance in a place where you still can be successful with them, but with counterplay that can be somewhat consistently achieved in solo queue. Unfortunately, this frequently means making them objectively kind of bad.

And for what it's worth, I doubt nerfs of the sort on the PBE are going to make Riven unplayable (definitely worse, though).

SIayton5/7/2015, 5:19:22 AM3 votes

Riven is miserable to play against for any of the champions that don't counter her and most of her counters are incredibly boring to play or just not that good in the current meta.

the people she does beat, she basically forces them to not play the game, because not sitting at your tower basically means death. Also she has insane mobility and is hard to punish for over extending because she has 4 dashes, so having weaker mobility when her CDs aren't up just makes sense tbh. Its insane she has the manaless mobility she does now, TBH.

Not to mention if she even gets ONE kill, she snowballs the lane out of control. A couple of kills and your team is probably going to lose the game. She's just not fun at all to deal with at any point in the game unless she's completely starved.

3sTbGoP7ES5/7/2015, 4:13:36 AM1 votes

Ahahahaha. Get nerfed you Riven mains. item 3070

Your freelo should be nerfed more. They should also nerf her op shield and cooldowns to the ground. Olaf her please!

ScreamPaste5/7/2015, 9:05:54 AM1 votes

Bump for visibility.

SquishyArchon5/7/2015, 9:11:13 AM1 votes

Are you kidding? You call losing 5 movement speed and lowering Ult projectile speed a nerf? Riven is a joke of a champ. Initiates against you from halfway across the lane, chain cc's you, and executes 100-0, all while having a massive fucking shield so you can't even fight back.

Wajster5/7/2015, 10:01:26 AM1 votes

While I agree that Riven DOES take skill to master, she is TOO strong when you do master her. And yes, like someone mentioned below, if you are not playing a direct counter to her, you will turret farm or die. Also, her CC chain when she is ulting is long enough to 100-0 you without you being able to fight back so PLEASE, don't act like its nothing. I get that you probably put in alot of work to getting good at Riven but that doesn't mean she isn't as broken as her sword.