Do people play the champs they complain about?

TitanAnteus·8/7/2018, 8:33:00 AM·41 votes·10,381 views

I'm seeing so many Akali, Yasuo, Zoe hate threads it's legit starting to get annoying.

Akali especially, is a really well done rework. She's in a really good spot right now, with the only tweaking I'd give her being actual buffs, but meh.

Yasuo gets bursted down pretty well. If your team has two forms of CC he's probably dead. Pantheon... heck even Darius will just shut him down. I will not deny that conqueror plus infinity edge is really strong though. Yasuo isn't the main abuser of this AD burst however. The worst offender of this is Fiora, Master Yi, and Tryndamere coming in close behind. Yasuo's kit as a whole is fine, not to mention interesting.

Zoe is not a problem. Ignite is a problem. I'm assuming everyone's seen the wukong level 2 kill with ignite electrocute proc? Rune damage combined with ignite procking electrocute is the problem. I play Zoe with klepto and she's quite healthy. It's nothing like Nidalee. She has to castbackwards, it's her ONLY reliable damaging ability, Nidalee has Pounce, E, Q, and the CC setup can be blocked by minions. The way I see it, a lot of players just don't respect her damage, so they don't play around their minions and when they get caught, suffer for it. Not only that but she's weak as fuck to ganks.

A lot of the complaints I'm seeing over and over again on these champs I'd think wouldn't be as severe if they just played the champs and saw their weaknesses.

Yasuo for instance has a ton of weaknesses that's not just CC. He has a very unreliable CC ability. His knockup only starts once he hits his Q twice before. He's also melee. You're supposed to harass him. If he's dodging your abilities via E, which DOES have a cooldown between dashes, then you're playing worse than he is and he deserves to kill you. W is on a 20 second cooldown rank 1 and is maxed last. He doesn't build CDR... He also has no innate sustain. So many weaknesses... so many. Since he has to attack minions to get Tornado he pushes hard inadvertently so he's weak to ganks. He can't E to ally minions. So many weaknesses... so many. His core items are zeal items and are quite expensive so his powerspike comes at a decent point in the game. AP casters are generally stronger after first back then he is by QUITE a lot. His first back is just crit chance and attack speed. Godamn he has weaknesses. If he's kicking your ass, plz understand that the yasuo is legit an objectively better player than you.

That's just Yasuo. Zoe... whoo boy Zoe... Only one reliable damaging ability. Relatively high mana costs with no passive way to regen mana. Hyper telegraphed CC spell that will not work if you are behind a minion. Needs to pick up summs from minions so she gives you an opportunity to harass her whenever she wants to make her W actually do anything. If the W she gets is not a damaging ability it will contribute nothing to her damage as the orbs and movement speed boost is barely enough to kill a caster minion.

So like for real. Plz... just play them for yourself.

156 Comments

Jamaree8/7/2018, 9:08:14 AM28 votes

LOL NO. You think people take time to research and see why champions have the things they have, you funny.

RiotCarnival Knights8/7/2018, 8:54:21 PM22 votes

I try (mostly because I'm the sole narrative writer for the skins team) to get play on every champion, but dip into the pool of more infamous characters when I'm thinking about special interactions in lane. They tend to appear in games more, and a lot of people have very strong opinions about them -- so those lines will be heard more frequently and get more laughs, as far as special interactions go (mostly I aim for lore and lane matchups). But in order to really insult a character, you have to know them. Here's what I've anecdotally found as a guy better at tank supports and top lane mages:

Zoe: I cannot for the life of my aim her god damn skillshot. I understand how her kit works, I see how it could be super oppressive, but everyone I play against dodges the bubble and I'm left with an OK-damage nightmare projectile that controls like Master of the Flying Guillotine. Love the hole from The Yellow Submarine, though, that's kinda fun. I picked up this Flash, neat, guess I'll burn it and my second flash to escape and now I am dead. Why are people so afraid of this rainbow haired child blogger. Why am I so angry.

Zed: I have never been good at playing Zed, and this was established once more to me when he got spam-selected in a one for all and I had to die a billion times to a team of Extremely Master Yis. The sheer skill it takes to not bop yourself like a dumb dumb and keep all your positioning in order is crazy, so like Zoe, while I don't appreciate the experience of dueling a good Zed I do understand the level of skill it takes to get him right.

Yasuo: It took five games for me to figure out how to shoot tornadoes and besides that I know one of his voice lines is "Make it quick," like he's talking to me, Jared, and I've bothered him in the middle of a pleasant afternoon. Well screw you, Yasuo. At least I'm not an alcoholic with spike shoulder.

Ivern: I have played two games on Ivern and I can tell just by how his kit kind of, sort of worked that he is completely busted. Just unequivocally busted good. In the right hands Ivern could be a monster, but I don't think many people have figured him out quite yet. Also, Jesus, those cooldowns. I'm a HUGE TREE with WEIRD FEET and I'm in this BUSH I MADE throwing FLOWERS, somebody HELP ME.

Akali: Man, this donut is huge. I love this smokey donut. It's kind of like a vape shop where I stab you. I hope my opponent is dead by the time the donut ends- oh. Oh no.

Ahri: Ahri is extremely easily countered because she has to get in relatively close to secure solo kills. Sure, she can poke you a little, and you can choose to stay in lane, and maybe your friends come down from the river because you stayed in lane, and I'm way too far out. Stop pinging me. I know I'm dead. Please stop pinging.

Quinn: Okay, so I shoot whoever the bird pecks? And I bounce off them like Puck from the Canadian X-Men? Sweet. He had Puck powers. I think one of the other guys was a Sasquatch. Oh holy wow this damage is high. I hope my trend of messing up my itemization won't totally cripple my ability to contribute in any meaningful way. Nope, wait, it did.

wildfox998/7/2018, 9:32:03 AM20 votes

personally i were used to think that yasuo and zoe aren't too strong but just skilled...all this before playing them and see how easily i could shit on my enemies and how strong they are...and i'm not talking about a single game,i got all the mastery 6 tokens on both of them before judging and now i really think they both need an hard gut

edit:

if the most was made only for defending zoe and yasuo i totally disagree,but if you meant what you said

Do people play the champs they complain about?

i agree,it's stupid how many people complain about Ahri or Zed sometimes without even knowing what their abilities do (i swear it really happened)

Beatrice falls8/7/2018, 10:37:02 AM18 votes

Yes, I did spam Zoe for a while to see how strong she can be, and she is broken when you realize you can deal as much damage as your full burst by missing your skills.

Yes, I did play Akali and now she's strong early game and late game, while being able to build tanky and still dealing insane amount of damage and bringing utility to her team (but thankfully actually has some skill expression, since you can dodge her abilities)

No, I never played Yasuo (simply because I refuse to play this garbo) because just read his skills, it's just overloaded. Compare his kit to let's say Annie or Fiddlesticks

hhaavviikk8/7/2018, 9:39:34 AM16 votes

I don't have to play yasuo or zoe to know they're obnoxious to play against, I know how to play against yasuo, I know how to play against zoe, doesn't change the fact that they rob me of any fun when playing against them and actively make the match annoying to play overall, people get this wrong all the time, people complain about yasuo and then they list coutners or weaknesses but that doesn't matter, because what people hate about yasuo is how annoying he is, yasuo could be garbagecan 5 ranked and just a couple random windwalls can tilt you off the face of the earth because the ability is just that annoying as is his entire kit.

zoe also just as obnoxious because she plays the same as old nidalee, and NO ONE liked playing vs old nidalee where you're constantly dancing to avoid the Q/E but then you get hit once and lose 70% of your health if not 100% if fed, that's not fun.

Daddy Ants8/7/2018, 10:48:51 AM15 votes

Back when Vayne complaint threads were the norm, most of the people who made the threads played like 1-2 games of Vayne in ARAM/Bots.

It's funny when someone makes a balance complaint about a champion and they have no experience playing the champion.

Yasuo Zoe are just obnoxious and overloaded, way too many strengths and no real weaknesses.

Only way they can balance Zoe is by hitting her numbers or giving her a GU.

A person who's played 1-2 games of a champion comes on the boards acting like they know the champ and how they believe it should be balanced? -> Gets upvoted to hell

If a main comes on and counter argues -> downvoted to hell.

saltran8/7/2018, 9:25:30 AM10 votes

I mean I usually ban Yasuo not because I think that he's gigabroken and doesnt have counterplay but because I usually play MF and later on teamfights is too easy for him to just windwall my ultimate.

Somber Rites8/7/2018, 6:24:19 PM6 votes

Just because someone is difficult to master doesn't make it any less annoying to be one shot by Zoe, or have to play "dodge the tornado or else you die" every six seconds.

And while I have yet to see Akali in action, I imagine she'll be more annoying for AD assassins in the midlane to deal with than she would be for mages, given that Mages usually specialize in AoE and her shroud doesn't stop that.

I also find it hard to accept that "burst and CC" is a "counter" to a champion. That counters literally everyone.

I'm not saying they're broken; but in Yasuo and Zoe's case, their skill cap is high but it feels like shit to fight them because they have a answer for every situation built into their kit. So their only moments of "weakness" end up being when you're on equal terms.

And if they are really good at their character, there's almost no counterplay except pray to god they screw up.

I think it's good to reward skilled players for being skilled, but there's a limit to where it's okay.

(Plus, if there wasn't a problem with these champions being toxic to play against, you wouldn't see so many people complaining)

The Space Cowboy8/7/2018, 4:13:46 PM5 votes

Lvl 5 Zoe here. Not super into her but I’ll admit her q does too much damage for the cd and mana cost. W is overloaded and could just give the movespeed and still be a good ability, e is better since the range changes but doesn’t need the trap in it to be useful.

I play the new akali and agree she’s fairly balanced. She lacks counterplay for melee champs but that can be said about half the roster.

Lauchmelder8/7/2018, 4:03:05 PM5 votes

Now here's a question: Do I need to play a champion to deem him/her unfun to play against?

Yasuo isn't fun to play against because of his windwall and his stupid ass dashes, Zoe's unfun to play against because one E lategame spells your doom no matter what.

Other people may have different opinions, but that's what i think.

CppL8/7/2018, 11:21:36 AM4 votes

Yea i did play all these champs.So? they still cancer to play against (i mean zoe and yasou).Akali is fine.

Tin Obliterates8/7/2018, 2:05:09 PM4 votes

So... If I don't play Yasuo does that means I cant think that he's annoying af to play against?

AbyssmalHydra8/7/2018, 5:14:29 PM3 votes

Akali especially, is a really well done rework. She's in a really good spot right now, with the only tweaking I'd give her being actual buffs, but meh.

Get off the boards.

Dweeebles8/7/2018, 6:52:15 PM3 votes

Yeah 100% I find I can play vs a champ better if I have tried them out a few times. I recommend this highly! The problem I find with Yas is that even if I play against him well, the rest of my team doesn't know what to do to shut him down mid/late game, especially in bronze/silver. So usually I just perma ban him in my ranked matches. Everyone else is fine, some really frustrating ones like Zoe but eh its ok.

Emerald Fang8/7/2018, 8:42:11 PM3 votes

I mean I love Zoe (even though I think she's not an issue).

Akali is so weak right now and she definitely isn't the problem.

Yasuo is also weak and he has to powerfarm for 20 minutes, or snowball HARD to do well.

Electrocute and ignite are the problems. Electrocute does undeniable amounts of damage early-game. PBE nerfs aren't going to do much IMO, it's just going to make assassin pressure worse because the cooldown is halved and the damage isn't even close to being halved, and assassins already overkill so mages are being pushed out of mid lane a lot harder.

Champions like Talon, who can miss both W hits and still deal 70% of your health with one Q+auto+auto+electocute, are the problem. Champions like Quinn, who are super duper frustrating to play against and make you powerless, are the problem. Champions like Nocturne, who can ult you with tether + spellshield so you're completely powerless and can't do anything.

Ignite is just too useful right now, the heal reduction is really nice and prevents you from avoiding ignite at all because you can't recover from it. Teleport nerfs hit hard, maybe if ignite was nerfed then other summs would appear in lane besides exhaust/heal/ignite.

The Highest Noon8/7/2018, 2:04:47 PM3 votes

That's a loaded question that needs clarification, because you're implying that people who have complaints have never touched a champion before, which is generally wrong.

Of all the champs I complain about, mainly Diana Fizz and Poppy, at one point I DID play them constantly. That doesn't change the fact that I think lowly of those champions lol especially Diana. It's 2018 and we shouldn't have 0-effort burst champs anymore.

MYSTlCFLOW8/7/2018, 7:24:07 PM2 votes

Zoe is not a problem. Ignite is a problem. I'm assuming everyone's seen the wukong level 2 kill with ignite electrocute proc? Rune damage combined with ignite procking electrocute is the problem. I play Zoe with klepto and she's quite healthy. It's nothing like Nidalee. She has to castbackwards, it's her ONLY reliable damaging ability, Nidalee has Pounce, E, Q, and the CC setup can be blocked by minions. The way I see it, a lot of players just don't respect her damage, so they don't play around their minions and when they get caught, suffer for it. Not only that but she's weak as fuck to ganks.

are you implying that challenger+ lcs players don't know how to respect a zoe? or gank? how do you even gank a good zoe? Now i don't follow pro play much but I do know that they know that zoe is broken