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How about giving ruby sightstone a unique passive: increase stealth warding limit by one?

o0O Madoka O0o·9/12/2014, 7:17:18 PM·82 votes·23,585 views

I want to have more control over the vision as a support. When my teammates refuse to help with vision, at least I can do something to compensate. Moreover it gives people more reasons to upgrade the sightstone to ruby sight stone. Edit: Hi! Haven't checked my post for such a long time and didn't realize it got so many relies and my first red reply :3. Thank you for joining the discussion.

I only intended to ask for an extra green (stealth)warding limit for supports, and maybe give a bit more reason to upgrade my ruby sightstone.

So some people worried that vision will become supports' job again, which I don't think would become a problem. Even now support is taking a large part of it, adding some more vision control for supports won't hurt.

Other suggestions like granting a small movement speed buff while warding would be great. (Although there should a cd to prevent spamming wards to escape. that destroyed the meaning of warding)

There's a question people are asking : Why not make sightstone a more proper build for other laners if warding is not only the job for support? And there are many nice suggestions about. What do riot think about this idea?

159 Comments

RiotRiot Baconhawk9/12/2014, 7:27:55 PM33 votes

Immediate knee-jerk reaction: awesome idea Immediate knee-jerk action: make post of the day

Let's discuss! What are the benefits and potential ramifications of this proposed change?

Mârty9/12/2014, 7:59:22 PM14 votes

Are you talking about increasing green ward or pink ward limit?

If you're talking about increasing the green ward limit, I think that would undo the effort put into the season 4 changes that aimed to shift supports away from the role of "ward dispenser". Riot wants vision to be a team effort. Sightstone is a cheap pickup that, really, anybody could buy, but supports often end up buying it because they generally don't scale as hard with gold, other lanes have more uses for the item slot and extra gold.

If we increase the green ward limit by one on ruby sightstone, not only does it force supports to go for it (as we need vision, and they already have the sightstone), it would require us to even stock up on an extra green ward or two, to keep up with having four wards down at once, plus all the scanning that goes on. Sightstone is meant to be an item which puts an end to ward buying. If you own a sightstone, you should not need to buy another green ward that game. Having a four ward limit late game, and trying to keep up with making use of that extra limit means we have to buy at least one or two extra green wards - this is bad.

If you're talking about increasing the pink ward limit, it would be a kind of niche upgrade (if they have lots of stealth then it might be useful), but again, it's forcing supports to make use of that two ward limit. Pink wards are fairly expensive, and if we choose to invest another 475g into a pink trinket to make use of the extra limit, we're sacrificing scanning for wards every minute. It would leave a hefty hole in the support's not-so-deep pockets.

One minor buff to a ruby sightstone is something I wouldn't mind seeing - assuming it doesn't become a mandatory rush. I'd love to see an upgrade that becomes more relevant late game, so you purchase the sightstone early game, and upgrade it again at 30+ minutes.

Because of how quickly wards can be killed late game (it's pretty hard to even put one down as an ADC can even kill it before it stealths), I propose this ruby sightstone buff.

UNIQUE passive: Ward Reinforcement - Wards dispensed by the ruby sightstone require six (rather than three) hits to be destroyed.

This helps give a ward a fighting chance when it's put down late game, and actually forces the enemy team to use a pink/scanner to kill the ward. It's also not a super-strong buff, meaning it doesn't make ruby sightstone a force rush, and some people might not ever even pick it up. It does give it a niche for late game, which I think is the perfect little nudge it needs.

Edit: Quick concern that Riot Baconhawk brought up with having wards at six health, scanning a ward with a tier 2 scanner generally gives a lone support time for five auto attacks. That means that a support with low base AS and no AA Reset (LEONAAAAAA) would not be able to kill a ruby sightstone ward in the time that it was scanned.

To sort of fix this while also solving another issue, it might be cool if all wards affected by a scanner instantly take one point of damage. As it stands, if a support scans a bush that has two wards, and they lack AS /AA reset, they can only do 5 hits, leaving one ward with one health. This would not only allow the reinforced ward to be killed by base AS in one scan, it would also help the lone support and reward good scan placement.

A less intrusive solution would be to have the passive provide a temporary shield, which is removed once the ward is stealthed.

Parceval9/12/2014, 7:32:36 PM14 votes

I think that a few items need a fourth tier, and sightstone is definitely one of them. I'd like to see a 'diamond' sightstone, for example.

RiotRiot Baconhawk9/12/2014, 7:46:23 PM7 votes

Oh did you mean VISION (pink) ward? I am assuming that is what this discussion is about :x

Linna Excel9/12/2014, 8:32:37 PM6 votes

IMO sightstone should be its own trinket line, maybe let it replace yellows and recharge over time. I'm neither for nor against the passive idea.

Origami Kaiju9/13/2014, 12:49:41 AM4 votes

I have some Ideas for passives and actives that Ruby Sightstone could have that would make it more beneficial (none of which involve increasing your carrying capacity of vision or stealth wards!)

Possible Passives -

Upgrading to Ruby SIghtstone increases cast range of wards to 1000 (like feral flare)
5% movement speed boost after a ward is placed (decays over 3 seconds)
destroying an enemy ward grants an additional 50% gold
Every ward placed grants 2 Mr and 2 armor (stacking up to 10 times) (limit 2 stacks per minute)

Possible Actives -

For 6 seconds the closest enemy ward in a 1000 range radius is revealed
Activate Ruby Sightstone, your next stealth ward placed will be auto upgraded into a pink vision ward (max vision ward capacity on map is not increased) (120 second cooldown)
for 6 seconds, all enemy traps, wards, and stealthed units in a 1000 range radius are revealed (not very original, but useful)
Activate Ruby Sightstone - for 3 seconds all nearby allies will glow green if the enemy cannot see them through the fog of war, ally's that are visible will glow red. (this would help when trying to sneak a dragon or baron but you're not sure if the enemy has vision on you or not!)

The Chin9/12/2014, 7:29:48 PM4 votes

Super agree! I only buy a ruby sighstone if it goes super late and I have nothing else to buy

Deep Terror Nami9/12/2014, 11:24:44 PM4 votes

I very very rarely even get to the Ruby Sightstone (support main). It's almost always the very last buy for a full build Support for me, so I don't think extra ward limit on it is useful in the slightest. I think there should be an alternate upgrade, such as;

Sapphire Sightstone - [Sightstone + Mana Crystal] 200HP 300Mana 5 ward charges
Onyx Sightstone - [Sightstone + Cloth Armor] 200HP 40Armor 5 ward charges

Or, an upgrade to the Ruby Sightstone such as;

Diamond Sightstone (stole name from Meshach) - [Ruby Sightstone + Forbidden Idol] 450HP 10MP5 10%CDR Unique Passive: Any CDR above 40% is converted into another attribute (say, MS, Armor, AP, or MR).

I personally want an item that can make use of CDR above 40%. There are so many good support items with CDR that (for me, at least) when we get to late game I have to buy atypical items that aren't supporty (Like, I already have Talisman 10%, Mikhael's 10% , Zeke's Herald 20%, and Locket 10%. That's already 10% over even if I didn't have the 10% CDR masteries. Twin Shadows is a waste, Morellonomicon is a waste, Frozen Heart is a waste, Ardent Censer is a waste. So I just get a GA or Abyssal Scepter maybe). Actually now that I think about it, you could just make post-40% CDR conversion the final mastery in Utility...

linkmastr0019/12/2014, 8:30:44 PM3 votes

I agree that Ruby Sightstone definitely needs some love, and I'd like to talk about their current gold efficiency. Using the rules established on http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/, as well as referencing the item pages themselves, item 1028 is our most basic Health efficient item, thus every point of health is worth 2.67g.

item 2049 800g +150 Health Contains 4 ward charges that refresh when at the shop You can consume a charge at any time to place a Stealth Ward (normally 75g)

The health has a gold value of 400g, giving it 50% efficiency without the passive Each ward placed increases the efficiency by 9.4%, hitting 100% at 6 wards and increasing indefinitely

item 2045 1600g +400 Health Contains 5 ward charges that refresh when at the shop You can consume a charge at any time to place a Stealth Ward (normally 75g)

The health has a gold value of 1067g, giving it 66.7% efficiency without the passive Each ward placed increases the efficiency by 4.7%, hitting 100% at 8 wards and increasing indefinitely

There is, however, one bug issue with the Ruby Sightstone in regards to it's efficiency. By the time you'd be interested in building it, you've already got 100%+ efficiency out of the regular Sightstone's passive, making the ward dropping portion of the item worthless in regards to gold efficiency. While I can't speak for other players, I know that after I get a normal Sightstone, I start aiming to build my boot item and then a typical support item, and by the time I've finished those I've placed well beyond 6 wards, especially if I'm having a long laning phase.

The only benefit from Ruby Sightstone would be having the one extra charge when I'm roaming, which feels unnecessary. It feels like, by the time my 3 wards I've placed have vanished, I've either already backed and restocked, or I'm just not in a good position to be roaming and placing wards since I'm likely needed elsewhere. This means that for me to feel it's worth building Ruby Sightstone (aside from finishing my build) is that the one extra ward charge has to be worth a whopping 533g

I do think that for me to desire Ruby Sightstone as it is now, it needs something. Being able to place one more Stealth Ward could be just the ticket, and/or perhaps even just dropping the cost simply because of how inefficient it feels. The only issue I can see with changing Ruby Sightstone, is that some champions ( LeeSin ) simply buy it to make themselves more mobile, rather than for the vision. Either way, it could be a fun pre-season experiment :)

Startyger9/13/2014, 2:06:55 AM3 votes

My concern would be, "Is this a step backwards from the initial vision changes?"

Part of the reason changes were made to the vision game was to enforce the idea that warding isn't ONLY the support's job. I feel like raising the ward cap on a support-centric item is reverting back to an unhealthy mindset. I would rather see a ward cap increase on a trinket, since all players, regardless of position/role, are more inclined to use trinkets (mind you, Riot made trinkets free just so non-support players wouldn't have a reason NOT to get one).

Getting non-support players into the vision game was hard to begin with; let's be wary of giving them an excuse to opt out once again.

Willidude9/15/2014, 7:37:40 PM2 votes

I do NOT main support so I do feel like I am posting in a post not intended for me. However, I feel like the sightstone is the most powerful item in the game I try to get it no matter what position I play except for ADC where the support has the area covered. (If my support isn't warding then I buy one anyway)

We all seem to agree that SOMETHING needs to be done to the ruby sightstone to make it viable as I, like everyone else, don't see the point. I think that an increase in the limit on stealth and vision wards passive would be an amazing upgrade on this item. (Preferably the vision [pink] wards) Having only one allowed has always made purchasing them risky in my opinion. Where if you place it somewhere people usually go you risk it being taken out early. (the obvious and accepted risk) The usually overlooked risk, however, is the one that is taken on when you risk wasting money by buying a second pink ward without your first being gone yet. It is a waste of gold that could be enough to keep you ahead on items in lane.

Adding a second pink ward with the item would not remove this risk, but diminish it a little bit hand help a lot with watching the junglier ganks (specifically helping mid-laners in solo queue who don't know the enemy jungle's tendency's and have to guess which side to keep warded)

This would make life harder for the jungler. If this update were to take place then I think a cool down reduction would have to be put on the scanner. If the number of wards out there goes up, then the ability to get rid of them (to keep the balance) would have to go up as well.

This is just my view on the topic trying to look at it from the most affected positions by it. Any added discussions or counter-arguements are accept and welcomed. The fear that people will make the support do all the work is very valid, but cannot be tackled without people understanding that item 2049 is wicked OP when 3 - 4 of the teammates have it.

Maestro8010/1/2014, 2:58:10 PM2 votes

I like to buy wards no matter what role I'm playing, but once I get to late game, I have to choose between having some wards in my inventory, or finishing my build. Supports have even more trouble reaching a "true" full build because of the sightstone taking up room in their inventory. I have two ideas for a potential solution:

-Remove wards from the store. Have a "ward" key you can press for both types of ward. If you can afford it, when you press the ward key you'll spend the gold (75/100) and drop down a ward. The limit of 3/1 wards placed is still in effect, but you no longer have to go to the store to stock up ahead of time. If you have a sightstone and place a ward, it is free, then the sightstone goes on cool down. Wards will cost as normal (or perhaps reduced) until the sightstone is off of cool down. Or maybe it has charges that replenish, or something.

OR,

-Have a slot for stealth wards, and a slot for a vision wards, over by the area where the trinket goes. If you buy a sightstone, it would fill that slot, giving you benefits but not taking up a spot in your inventory. The sightstones could have stats like an item, or give a nice passive, or whatever. If you have keys that you can assign to the task of warding, then the ward slot itself can be reserved for the sightstone to have active ability. Or just have a green and purple number in your inventory bar somewhere that keeps tracks of how many wards you have to place, and leave sightstone in your inventory if necessary.

Yes, these solutions would make for more wards, and therefore junglers would have a harder time. So make it easier to remove wards as well. I think "vision wars" would be fine as long as everyone can participate.