Can we for gods sake nerf redemption?

Frager·12/26/2016, 2:27:43 PM·85 votes·5,432 views

I don't think anyone consider this item to even be remotely balanced. I'm a mid diamond player and even people in my division buys this item om champs it not designed for because of how stupidly good it is.

I've seen braum support and even fucking rivens building this item and doing fine.... the stats and active combined are just way too much for 2100 gold.

Being able to potentialy heal 2.5k and deal 10 % hp true damage per player WHILE BEING FUCKING DEAD is ridiculus.. the whole point of being dead is to get punished and not being able to impact the game for a while.

90 Comments

Sohleks12/26/2016, 4:59:24 PM29 votes

It's too cheap for its effect, but why does the item being really good make you mad?

I for one want to see 5 man redemption squads in the lcs before it's fixed.

I want to see that coordinated orbital heal nuke.

sit kid12/26/2016, 2:29:38 PM8 votes

Honestly it should be removed

its so toxic and the active is so powerfull and doesnt even synergize with any champions. its just too good for everyone

Tribbles Foxfolk12/27/2016, 3:24:01 AM7 votes

Boards: "OMG SUPPORT IS SO USELESS WTF RITO" Riot: "Fine, here's Redemption, an actually good support item." Boards: "WTF SUPPORT IS SO DUMB REMOVE REDEMPTION WTF RITO" Riot: "Why do we listen to these retards, again?" Every Sensible Player: "We have no clue. Just pull an Icefrog and stop listening to them."

Weasel Kensei12/27/2016, 1:27:09 AM6 votes

I made a thread that is dedicated to the numbers and facts about the items strengths here:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/LVoKbnL7-redemption-analysis?comment=00040000

Here is the copy paste:

Velkoz Redemption analysis for some understanding on the item and its state in the game complete.

Im seeing a ton of Redemption hate and I think some people are confused about why they think its overtuned, or overpowered. Im going to breakdown the item here so people can understand it better and what theyre up against concerning this item.

Many people have complained about the shielding it allows. Stop. The shielding bonus isnt the problem, it adds 10% shields/heals as do other items.

Lets look at Karma:

Karma

Her E shields for: Shield: 70 / 100 / 130 / 160 / 190 (+ 50% AP)

Thats 190 at rank 5, with 10% extra its 190+19 = 209

So Karma plus Redemption = a 209 shield. How about we compare that to another item that is good on Karma?

item 3504 Yeah, it also gives the 10% shields/heals passive. It also gives 60 AP.

So Karma plus Ardent Censor = a 242 shield. That is 190 + (50% of 60 AP) = 220 + (10%) = 242

Its MORE than Redemption. No one was complaining about this all last season... because it wasnt a problem. Shielding people isnt the problem. It just isnt or people would have been rage circle jerking about it last season in rage post on the forums. Further more, item 3222 does 20% heals/shields, gives MORE HP/mana regen than Redemption does, gives 10% CDR, and lets you use a cleanse effect on your team, and cost the same. It dose a lot of the same stuff.

Now that we covered that, lets focus on how similar item 3222 and item 3107 are.

NO ONE! No one was complaining about Mikaelsitem 3222 . Doing most of the same stuff, and having a free summoner spell active.

Now as for item 3107 being overtuned, it may just be that other support items (often to keep them from being bought by other roles) are just badly undertuned. item 3222 cost the same, does a lot of the same stuff, but is 66.51% gold efficient without its passives, and cleanse active. item 3107 on the other hand is 92.06% efficient without its passives, or active. Support itemization is straight up crap people! Remember the item 3092 nerfs cause it was both cheep and effective for mid laners? Yeah, support itemization is bad to avoid this.

So having covered the much better gold efficiency of Redemption, there is about 8% left over for the value of its active/passives. Since its passives are both weaker than Mikaels (its mana/health regen, bonus shield/heal passives) lets just say that the remaining 8% is the value of the active. Its more complicated than that with the way Mikaels health/mana regen work, but for simplicity sake lets not go into it.

The active for Redemption is:

Target an area within 5500 range. After 2.5 second, call down a beam of light to heal allies for 150 - 490 (based on target's level), deals 10% of maximum health true damage to enemy champions and 250 true damage to minions (120 second cooldown).

So every 2 minutes we can AoE heal for 150 - 490. That is a lot and its at the value of 2100 x 0.08 = 168 gold.

150 - 490 healing for as many people as can be in the AoE every 120 seconds vs summoner 7 (90 - 345 healing for 2 people) and a short speed boost every 240 seconds for 168 gold. This is on top of the 10% max HP true damage. I dont think the damage part is super significant, it takes 2.5 seconds to go off and has a clear indicator. What we really get is a half cooldown time, stronger heal spell, with a delay for 168 gold... thats pretty good.

So this is where we are with the item.

item 3107 is a much more gold efficient item 3222 with a better summoner spell active and HP instead of MR.

Final analysis is that it may be a bit too strong. NOT because its gold efficiency is much better than other support items, but because the active is way to good for the remainder gold cost.

While I like the item, and am very happy Riot is putting in some good support items I think the first step with Redemption should be to remove the needless power of the enemy true damage (lets face it, were using it for the heals over the damage) and to lower the healing a bit. Some things that could be done is to spread the healing out i.e. divide by the number of targets. Or maybe just lower the amount of healing at higher levels to 375 maybe. Not sure exactly, but here is where the discussion can start, we have the information and tools to talk about Redemption.

Please share your thoughts on item 3107 . Do you think supports need this because the game needs supports? Or do you think its just a wee bit too strong, or do you think its OP af and needs to be deleted? Curious what you guys have to say, thank you for reading.

RexSaur12/26/2016, 4:49:42 PM6 votes

But havent you heard? support items are allowed to be overpowered because they are support items xdddddd

Oleandervine12/26/2016, 5:16:22 PM6 votes

They need to increase the pricing of the item or reduce the punch of the active. I love the stats and how they flow with giving tanky supports access to the Heal/Shield boost, as it always felt awkward building Mikael's or the Censor on Taric, so I'd hope they just slash the active's punch.

Niaphim12/26/2016, 7:00:40 PM5 votes

People complain every time supports become relevant. Apparently they are not allowed to be more than wardbots. Apparently carries doing 2k damage in 1.5s is totally fine but supports shielding for 500 is not.

TricolorStar12/27/2016, 2:48:39 AM5 votes

Just a note: The effect of Redemption is drastically reduced if the target has been affected by one in the last few minutes, making multi-Redemption teams useless

SwordOfWar12/27/2016, 6:41:02 AM5 votes

TL: DR you're just mad cause bad

Takito12/26/2016, 10:08:39 PM4 votes

Well technically if you 're dead you can't heal for 2.5k since there is only 4 people still alive in your team [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

agbudar12/26/2016, 10:07:40 PM3 votes

why would it not be intended for someone like braum? it gives 400 health

FourVsFive12/26/2016, 3:52:38 PM3 votes

based on this item and latest champ release, seems there balance team is on vacation or something.

2Charmnot2Charm12/26/2016, 4:24:06 PM3 votes

item 3190 comboed with item 3401 tilts the hell out of me.

At least i can kill someone before redemption goes, Can't do the same with the bs shield stacking.

Meserion12/27/2016, 12:06:49 AM2 votes

Its not OP, you stood in the fire, don't stand in the fire....

iF ANYTHING WHERE TO CHANGE i'D REMOVE THE DAMAGE COMPONENT, THAT IS THE FIX IT WOULD NEED!

Delphinium12/27/2016, 8:58:57 AM2 votes

It's healthy, but a little powerful item.