@Riot is a detailed post about Damage Creep, TTK, Snowball and Game Length too much to ask?

Holgranth·7/16/2018, 1:22:47 PM·315 votes·25,231 views

Doublelift makes a video on patch cycles and Riot jumps in with a 1750ish word essay explaining their position. Damage creep, Time to Kill and Game Length are hot button topics for a year and crickets.

Why can't we get some communication from the top about why Riot is fine with leaving damage so high, games so short and durability so unrewarding?

It is a massive shift from the original design of league and we deserve some answers.

106 Comments

Raiyza7/16/2018, 2:51:00 PM74 votes

I understand the desire to make games less of a drag and faster, but that kills what made league so special back in earlier seasons.

Wait for it.....

STRATEGY AND COMEBACKS.

These are gone, or at the very least rare. Games are one-sided these days. The biggest issue? Champion and Item damage is too high, and Objectives are way too easy to take. Herald is a joke. Towers are jokes. It's just not as fun as it used to be.

Sex Crazed Eve7/16/2018, 1:50:26 PM44 votes

People actually need to upvote this

Nea1047/16/2018, 3:56:06 PM38 votes

Novemeber 2017 ---> July 2018. Not a single message about, and they just kept doing worse.

OVER 7 MONTHS. It's just a joke, now :D

Sex Crazed Eve7/16/2018, 5:57:50 PM34 votes

This should honestly become a DAILY thread until we get some form of response. I'd settle for a "shut the fuck up" from Riot.

UnknownTerritory7/16/2018, 4:48:25 PM22 votes

Im done. They will never going to fix this game

Marothennan7/16/2018, 3:58:47 PM20 votes

Stop bullying the small indie company

rtbf2256182417/16/2018, 10:43:27 PM18 votes

Because they cannot make any valid excuses for this other than "We have a new design philosophy now." which would basically be the equivalent of admitting that they have no integrity in their work ethics and a ton of players would feel betrayed by it.

They won't respond without using charming words and jokes and complicated honey talk to tone down the damage the balance team has been causing to the game for years because they can't just go "Nope, we're now on the side of flashier plays, tower diving with impunity and cashing in on Esports primarily. You all knew this was coming so quit your complaining!".

Resolution7/16/2018, 4:59:10 PM16 votes

MOBA's are dying off in North America, and the target markets now in Asia. You got to remember that we are now the minority in where the games progressing because of that.

A lot of "Game Cafes" sell time, and the shorter game style is more appealing in that setting. You have no idea how much shorter games have benefited players that play the majority of their games on time. In a very competitive region, it makes the grind more tolerable for your $.

On top of that, you got to remember Riot's owned by an Asian company which has that regions "Ideal game design" mentality that very often clashes with NA views. The entire IP system was redesigned into blue essence just so it could be monetized. From there we saw the inclusion of Lootboxes and P2P quests that locked missions behind $. The exclusive skin borders if you throw more money at an already $10 skin is pretty shitty especially when your locking icons behind $50 orb packages...

Plus when games used to last 45 minutes in the LCS and be the best out of 5 - matches could drag on for 4 hours + breaks. They were finding audience members getting burnt out before the conclusion. As much as they love denying changing the game just for the sake of LCS... dozens of quotes and updates contradict that completely.

To sum it up? Sold out - then tried modernizing itself into something it wasn't. Somewhere along the way, it lost what made League great. For Riot to openly discuss that their entire core game experience is currently unenjoyable would just paint a picture of their failed vision. Most of the boards want a new development team to save the game... and that'd just paint targets on whatever developer tried defending it. Look at CertainlyT everytime his ideas go public...

La Bello7/16/2018, 2:23:44 PM13 votes

games so short

RIOT actually WANT this. their consensus is that it makes LoL easier to fit into your lifestyle(people who play from Internet Cafe's for instance). They took a note or two from heroes of the storm in that they also want LoL to be accessible casually (quick fast games and easy to get into).

Damage creep and Time to Kill was probably an oversight and the product of nonstop buffs and changes to the system but im sure they'll give you some "dealing high damage is parallel to quicker games " yadda yadda spiel. summoner 14 for instance got buffed damage because Riot felt it wasn't strong enough of an option to contend with the other runes esp Teleport. item 3147 is riot attempting to give Assassins a "spike" item that they feel good about rushing/completeing item 3095 is Riots answer to the infamous "I build crit but I never crit" conundrum. giving the class a guaranteed crit that scales off attack speed and damage scales with more crit.

none of these things were added with the specific aim at getting shorter games but it pretty much led to them inadvertently . Death by a thousand cuts as they say.

NOW the big changes that specifically led to a quicker game on purpose would be the Baron and Tower HP changes In the past Riot specifically said that if you stomp the enemy team and get baron by 20 you SHOULD be able to end there and they dont want players to have to sit and play drawn out losses (this is also why Early Surrender Vote was added) to a lesser extent it was believed this was also a big problem in proplay back then when the average game was 30~50 minutes and it was Best of 3's. Riot says comebacks would still be possible but they would be more rare was pretty much the vibe they sang.

EDIT: you cant just downvote me because you dont like the answer [zombie-brand-facepalm] . thats not really how you are supposed to use the system. go find a Ghostcrawler and downvote him.

xXRaichopXx7/16/2018, 10:52:47 PM9 votes

The balance team is such a fucking joke at this point, it's like they don't care anymore

l MrD l7/16/2018, 7:11:15 PM7 votes

Yeh i want answers too even if it is for LCS to have high damage id rather see another play like fakers zed vs zed outplay than a simple Wukong building duskblade then proceeding to just E Q and if not dead press R .....

Surely outplays are more exciting than just a simple kill .....

SenorBobbers7/17/2018, 9:17:39 AM6 votes

I ask about the damage creep topic every time there's a new post in the Dev Corner, never get a response except the downvotes from the casuals who think the game is perfect and flawless

Radiant Wukong7/16/2018, 7:43:54 PM5 votes

I think they're trying to compete with Overwatch and Fortnite.

ModCaptainMårvelous7/17/2018, 5:30:36 AM5 votes

Doublelift makes a video on patch cycles and Riot jumps in with a 1750ish word essay explaining their position. Damage creep, Time to Kill and Game Length are hot button topics for a year and crickets.

Because they've mostly been boards topics, not widespread on reddit, twitter or otherwise. Hell, I still don't often see these posts on reddit.

In addition, look at the quality of Doublelift's video. He's well-spoken, provides points as to why he thinks something is bad and shared it in a way that started a discussion and created a viral video that spread across the league community. Conversely, most posts about the above topics are "GAME TOO FAST DAMAGE TOO HIGH RIOT KILL THYSELVES AND REVERT GAME BEFORE KILL TY"

IMO: If you want a good discussion on the topic, make the post and start spreading it around. See how the community feels. Put your words into a format that's more digestable than a wall-of-text post. etc. The more attention it gets and the more eyes on it, the less likely Riot can ignore it without ignoring something.

Akumu7/18/2018, 9:45:39 AM4 votes

I bet they will just continue to be silent. Apparently cant even have a discussion.

Tundra Hunter7/17/2018, 4:57:36 AM4 votes

Sad story:

I was in one rare long (platinum ranked) game the other day (about 40 min in) and the game was really close and basically the team winning the next team fight or two would win the game.

Well one guy literally got bored and went AFK because to him the game was becoming too long.

So... apparently some people want every game to ff15, whether they ff or enemy team ff they don't care but they want games to be as short as possible =(

Personally, the longer a game is, the more I love it. I am fine with 60 minutes games.

Janakin7/16/2018, 4:09:25 PM1 votes

Doesn't this answer your question? https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/2pvn0ldJ-a-response-to-doublelift-on-a-constantly-evolving-game

(I didn't read it but it seems like the answers you are looking for)