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Can someone tell me why Kai'Sa is still the best adc in the game over a year later?

SeverosMyst·11/13/2019, 10:57:53 AM·58 votes·17,378 views

So its been over a year since Kai'Sas release, and she's consistently been the best adc in solo queue and has had a respectable worlds presence at 40%

As of me typing this, Kai'Sa has a 47% winrate in solo queue, with a staggering 37% pick rate. Now, to the untrained eye you may think "Well, that doesnt sound like she's the best adc in the game. Her win rate is only 2% over Kalista, with a 45% winrate and a sub 1% pickrate.'

Thats the thing, so many people pick her and play her terribly because there are a lot of people who pick her when they're autofilled because they see her as often as they do with that high of a pick rate. Looking at Kai'Sas kit she has the best of all of the historically best adcs in the game. (aside from Xayahs untargetability,) She has single target burst with waveclear and pushing power, long range poke which stacks her percentage missing health damage passive, she has a movement ability which is also an attack speed steroid and invisibility thats not linked to an ultimate like Vayne's is. on top of all of that she has an insanely long range dash with a massive shield on her ultimate which isnt even a long cooldown at 110/90/70 seconds per point in it.

Lets look at the winrate of the top Kai'Sa players according to Op.gg (for consistency of course.) According to NA OP.GG as of writing this post: XXXXXXL - 51% winrate with an astonishing 1131 games on her. Jasonmankkl - 52% winrate with a slightly less impressive 851 games on her. Iibo - 53% winrate with 768 games on her. minui - 54% winrate with 624 games on her. 07316636- 53% winrate with 615 games on her. Now onto Korean Op.GG 복숭아충 - 52% winrate with 1466 games on her. 빵떡수정이 - 50% winrate with 1260 games on her. 서투른 춤을 추는 - 56% winrate with 1092 games on her. 놀라운원딜러1 - 52% winrate with 1038 games on her. 구너상 - 50% winrate with 1006 games on her. Now onto EU West Op.GG Videssy - 49% winrate with 1285 games on her. Euzi - 52% winrate with 740 games on her. Sâyê - 56% winrate with 717 games on her. wésper - 53% winrate with 694 games on her. Skilada - 49% games with 681 games on her.

Only two of every regions most devoted Kai'Sa players (top 5 in each major region) have a sub 50% winrate. There have been several champions as of recently who have been nerfed or changed in meaningful ways when they became popular within months of their popularity skyrocketing such as Xayah, Rakan, Aatrox, Akali, and even Yuumi. Why has it taken Kai'Sa this long to get hit by the nerf hammer this long since her series of ridiculous buffs on patch 8.11? Even then all she's gotten is band-aid nerfs like the nerf to her Q minion damage, and her E attack speed steroid. Please for the love of god nerf her safety of all things. _Her ultimate does not need to be the cooldown it is, especially since she can easily include a freakin Zhonyas in her build path. She's far too safe to be one of the highest damage late game hypercarries in the game. _

My proposal to nerf her? Give her ultimate an actual cooldown at all ranks, or force Kai'Sa players to invest more than 1-2 items to actually get her skill upgrades by increasing the stat breakpoints for it. Those of you who agree or disagree feel free to discuss in the comments below. I doubt riot would ever see this or pay attention to this, but I feel like this needed to be said by someone.

89 Comments

RandomYuki11/13/2019, 9:35:13 PM11 votes

It's because she can build ap items. Being able to build both ad and ap is beyond amazing cause it's too hard for people to build defensive against it. Not only that she has access to the best defensive item in the game. item 3157

The Highest Noon11/13/2019, 8:28:32 PM9 votes

Because a bad kaisa > a good everything else

Ahris11/13/2019, 2:55:16 PM9 votes

Kaisa's winrate isnt even that high, and pickrate just means shes popular, doesnt mean she is strong, balanced, weak, or OP.

And the top kaisa players winrate is not even high in comparison. So, why use a winrate argument when it does not even support your stance? Lol.

Explain, why is Kaisa broken and one of best adc MEANWHILE having one of lowest adc winrate. Go.

Hayaishi211/13/2019, 5:57:57 PM8 votes

Start by removing the Q's extra damage on Low HP minions.

Or remove her ultimate shield. The ability is good enough without a shield specially when you factor in her burst damage and her stealth.

Can also gut her W damage when building AP. There's 0 reason why this ability should be chunking squishies for 40% of their HP. She is not a mage.

Honestly there's a bunch of nerfs Kaisa's overloaded kit can take and Riot is taking their sweet time. All of her abilities scale ridiculously, no artillery marksman scales like she does so why is she allowed to?

Infernape11/13/2019, 4:22:28 PM8 votes

Because she's pretty overloaded. She can build whatever damage item in the game and still gain something out of it. Her kit is TOO flexible. While Kayle can effectively do the same thing, Kayle has the fundamental weakness of being a cannon minion for majority of the game until she reaches her level spikes.

e46 Fanatic11/13/2019, 9:50:36 PM7 votes

Well she has a Q that applies on-hits, a long range W missle with stong damage, stealth and mobility E, big shield n long range mobility R

Sounds to me like a strong champ

Its All Skillzz11/13/2019, 3:32:20 PM7 votes

They to busy nerfing ezreal.

preternatural11/13/2019, 10:14:28 PM7 votes

because she can use mage items. you're welcome.

Serika Zero11/14/2019, 6:54:09 AM5 votes

Seems like there's a few issues with your logic here. So lets start from the beginning. Kai'sa is popular because she's hot, and play relatively safe. Kind of similar to why Ezreal is still popular to this day. Why sort of playing safe is important? Because ded ppl can't dps!!!!!

However, she's not the best adc. As you pointed out, her win rate is quite low at 47%. And crit adcs are getting buffed in the preseason. Also as you were kind enough to point out. XXXXXXL - 51% winrate with an astonishing 1131 games on her. That's a 51% winrate of someone you'd consider a Kai'sa main/one trick

Or for korea: 서투른 춤을 추는 - 56% winrate with 1092 games on her. 놀라운원딜러1 - 52% winrate with 1038 games on her. No, I don't think having a 52% win rate over 1000 games is OMG SO BROKEN AND UNBALANCED AND IMPOSSIBLE TO PLAY AGAINST!!!!!

And the 56% guy being the anomaly. Lets take a look at other adcs then, shall we? Ezreal 룰러데프트프레이 54% win rate ~1044 games 구너상 50% win rate ~903 games Lightfeather 61% win rate ~362 games (only ez games) Max Verstappen 55% win rate ~286 games. Top 2 in euw are at 53% win rate and 49% win rate with around 500 games played of ezreal. And that's ezreal, not some omg so top tier adc, just a popular one.

Lets move on Caitlyn The Yung Yam God - 53% win rate ~800 games dont smoke cigs 53% win rate ~400 games 머하닝 55% win rate ~600 games PigGiNi 54% win rate ~500 games tiltkingTILTKING 53% win rate ~800 games Eva Queen Fan 54% win rate ~700 games

Or Jinx : Red Velvet Stan 52% win rate ~600 games keurig cup 56% win rate ~600 games 상관하지마세요 57% win rate ~1000 games 키득키득123 56% win rate ~1000 games Melwin 55% win rate ~1700 games JinxOnHerPeriod 53% win rate ~1000 games

I'm getting bored, so, last one is MissFortune : armor039 52% win rate ~2600 games the umbra witch 58% win rate ~500 games FINNISH HOUND 53% win rate ~1300 games Kaoleen 52% win rate ~900 games favoritething 53% win rate ~1600 games 산세베리앙 52% win rate ~1200 games

And that's why Kai'sa isn't getting nerfed. She is not the most broken or powerful ADC (across multiple patches), definitely not the patch's strongest ADC. She's just really popular.

edit: PS. If they would remove Allies being able to proc her Passive (plasma stacks) it will: stop making her pick and ban in pro play, lower her damage, lower her mobility and lower her safety ;)

That's the only nerf she needs. And then she might even need a buff like +50 basic attack range or whatever, who knows. But right now the reason why she's so dominant in pro play is because her passive can be procced by team members. The moment she loses that, her popularity in pro is going down, and her popularity in soloq will reach ezreal's levels (~20%)

Flashes11/13/2019, 8:46:27 PM4 votes

Dude I've said this like forever

Kai'sa is Vayne 2.0 against nearly every comp, including one with only 1 tank. Vayne's ability to delete tanks won't matter because Kai'sa actually has backline access, making it nearly impossible for a tank to properly do their job. Vayne is a slippery ADC yes, but she excels on taking targets down 1 by 1, starting from the front to the back. In this meta, having to wait like 5 whole autos before being able to dictate the outcome of a teamfight means you're either going to have to 1 v whoever your teammates failed to cripple, or you're going to be focused and killed before you can reach an advantageous situation.

Xayah and Kai'sa elimiate one or the other conditional. Xayah eliminates the focus and kill conditional, while Kai'sa eliminates the reliance on your team.

Niche picks like Varus can partially eliminate one conditional but don't do it as effectively.

SiG DxD11/13/2019, 7:14:07 PM4 votes

ikr

the passive is pure insanity and so is her Q damage it does over 200 dmg at lvl 2 which is extremly absurd

she does bring money with skins

but this champion kit is pure absurdity and should be nerfed A LOT

Durzaka11/14/2019, 6:35:03 AM3 votes

Im tired of seeing Kai'sa everywhere as well (especially in every pro game), but your argument as me confused.

What is your list of win rates by people who Main have represent? The numbers arent absurd. They are pretty much straight par for the course for Main win rates, in fact I would say it is quite surprising to see someone ith a less htan 50% win rate on a champion that they play A LOT of and are considered good with.

Most other Mains that i went and checked out hover between 52-57% win rate, depending on the champion,

I illustrate11/13/2019, 4:48:10 PM3 votes

Your nerf ideas are great. I love that champ to death and she’s my favorite character story wise, gameplay wise, art, music, everything, of any game I’ve ever played. I don’t personally want her to be nerfed because I kinda like that she’s busted in good hands LOL but if they did nerf her I’d make evolves cost 150 so she can’t get all 3 evolves ever anymore and I’d remove the ability for teammates to stack her passive with cc. This causes her to be paired with cc supports less(especially nautilus thresh and Pyke) meaning that those said supports can’t just spoon feed her kills excessively like they do currently. She will have a harder time scaling and will also take longer to get evolves regardless. If these said nerfs ended up making her garbage then you could just buff her ult range or w so w may be worth evolving over q sometimes. That is my main concern with making her choose between her evolves. She’ll ALWAYS go for e and most likely q. This would erase the possibility of upgrading w unless you were going full ap or didn’t want your e evolve (but why wouldn’t you???). So I think w buffs would be necessary to even the playing field between q and w

Nar7ia11/13/2019, 5:59:01 PM3 votes

Her kit is just fucked up. She has one of those kits where there is a night and day difference between a mediocre Kai'Sa player and player who has mastered her, kind of like Riven. It's just difficult to balance champions like these due to the nature of their kits. I don't think she needs nerfs, she needs parts of her kits changed because she will always be strong/semi strong no matter the meta. Same for Xayah.

Linna Excel11/14/2019, 7:34:13 AM3 votes

Is Kaisa really that good though? I thought that Crit Fortune, Ashe, and Jinx are all better atm.

Pro play presence doesn't necessarily mean a champion is the best one in the game. Also, the best players on a champ being 5% better than average isn't so rare; it's pretty average actually.

Smyrage11/14/2019, 8:21:57 AM3 votes

There are slight problems with reasoning.

First, why do you think that a champion is OP, who has overall sub 50% winrate, but on the other hand mains have higher than 50% winrate with him/her? It just tells that they invested a lot of time into her and they are good with her. The same thing can be said about a lot of other champions.

As for Kai'sa, the reason she is a good pick, because she is a AP/AD hybrid carry, who can flex between roles depending on what the team needs more. Therefore she is a good for solo queue and pro play as well. Due to her mobile nature she is less team reliant and can do things on her own. I don't think these qualities make a champion immediately OP, just popular. She has high damage for sure, but she basically trades all utility for this. She has lower range than most marksmen, which make her more vulnerable to be focused down, simply because she can't keep safe distance. That being said: just because a champion, who was supposed to deal damage to begin with, deal relatively high damage doesn't mean she is that OP. Also her W is a terrible poking tool. It has high cooldown and to reach full damage you need to have 4 procs already. It is mostly used for finishing off and to catch people with it and R.

As for Ezzy. Please don't compare him to Kai'sa, because they are nothing alike. Kai'sa is penalised for going for AP, because it shifts power from her auto attacks to her passive and abilities. If she can't upgrade her Q, which need AD, then she won't be able to dish out much damage with it. Hybrid Ezreal was overperforming due to the interaction between Manamune and Luden's Echo. Luden's Echo basically gave him a lot of AD through extra mana. Same for Manamune + Archangel Ezreal. It needed time to stack that's for sure, but the two boosted each other, basically giving Ezreal a lot of AP and AD. Ezreal is probably the most flexible champion, because his item arsenal is huge. His core is idd a Tear and a Sheen item, but he can build a lot of mage, assassin, ADC items as well. Such champion is usually balanced more than usual, because he could quickly spiral out of control.

Starcraft243ver11/14/2019, 9:30:34 AM3 votes

The fact someone has 700 games on her and a not so good winrate makes me think that she's all but overpowered actually.

I'm puzzled by the reasonning behind this.

Fuhrer Usagi11/13/2019, 5:24:19 PM2 votes

Because its VERY VERY easy to farm CS on her. Just press Q and if the minion was at half hp you got the CS. She also pretty fast and as mentioned by others you can build pretty much anything and still be good since her passive Q and W all scale off AP and AD.

Gold Grenade11/13/2019, 11:18:16 PM2 votes

Because she was supposed to be a close-range ADC, but when they made her longer range they didn't take away any other mechanic, like the unneeded shield on her ultimate.

It's literally that simple. She had a different play style starting out, but that wasn't flashy enough so here we are.

Hi im 1211/14/2019, 1:41:08 AM2 votes

the post was good until you came to this:

Only two of every regions most devoted Kai'Sa players (top 5 in each major region) have a sub 50% winrate.

like what the fuck are you talking about, this is true for every champion and do you want mains to have shitty winrates on their champs? lmao

Rıots Bad Client11/14/2019, 2:44:40 PM2 votes

because her gimmick.

The ol' "haha, I can build and abuse any item thats good and you cant"

She can build item 3157 and item 3026 and still do truck load of damage. while not relying on supports with her R

Its why Xayah and Kai'sa are the best adc's... they're just safe. Because they nerfed every safe support. Like Tahm, braum shield supports etc. so they just leave it to the adc's

However her Counter play is... well there isnt any of that. because it WAS supposed to be a weak early game.

J H I N F O U R11/15/2019, 1:15:23 AM2 votes

Mages and Mage items are Broken/OP Kai sa is the only adc that can abuse mage items therefore Kai sa is op because of mage items. Here is a better suggestion NERF MAGE ITEMS(Nerf zhonyas gives half ap and make the active longer cd YW)