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Playing as a jungler in practice (Co-Op) games

KC King Caomanac·7/10/2017, 5:52:44 PM·1 votes·356 views

This hurts someone who is expecting a game against the bots WHERE they will be, not where they will NOT be (jungle). Most notably, anyone in the top lane will be screwed with a 1 v. 2 lane. Well, okay, to stop the ignorant responses, not anyone, but surely the newer players who would be using Co-Op games to learn. Even with my experience, I sometimes dig out new champions of whom I am totally unfamiliar, thus making it so that I too need some practice.

With a jungler on the team, whoever ends up in top lane cannot practice with any reality which reflects a true game. Unless the jungler tests out the first few camps, then dutifully joins the top laner, and they never do. I can see a need for those who want to learn jungling to give it a secondary shot, not primary function. For instance, trying to figure out when to take out a dragon. Still, a lot of jungler functions can be tested while the jungler still does his team play job by helping out the top laner. We cannot require that of anyone, so that notion is merely musing. Leaving this as is continues to allow for newer players to get screwed in to plane, and perhaps cost Riot Games a PAYING player, and that is my point. And, by the way, that is how I practice my jungler champions - by taking out a couple of camps, then go to top lane to DO MY JOB AS A TEAMMATE! Then, when I feel my champion is ready, I will try to take out the drake. Regardless, returning to MY JOB AS A TEAMMATE when that is through. Can't force players to do that, so we cannot consider such an option.

So, before you respond, know that this post is NOT so much about MY issues, but about issues which affect potential revenue for Riot, and growing the player pool. If Co-Op games remain as they are, my response is simply to stop playing them altogether, and just try out new champions in PvP, even though that will adversely impact my team. That is okay since I can ignore the 'you suck' garbage comments knowing that I am only doing that which makes the most sense.

So, to fix this, well, we need to gain consensus. I have my ideas, but if the Majority wants to make these bot games unusable for newer players, this post will not change that mentality unless they start thinking about others, and not just themselves.

So, if you want to respond to this thread, please ensure that you consider the effect of this to newer players, and try to see things from their perspective. There is a lot of learning which Riot still falls very short of providing explanations about (for instance, how to release the Rift Herald. I understand it has been said to use the trinket key, but that does not work, and no further information can be found, thus an unexplained feature, one of many).

Shortcomings of Riot Games not telling us how to play their game is a much larger issue, and I will not try to include all of those shortcomings in this post. I only bring it up to support the notion that, without playing these Co-Op games, there is no other way to learn. If those games are tainted with useless junglers, the player pool suffers. Then, when these newer players see how much has been left out by Riot, but well known by experienced players, newer players will feel even more left behind, quite possibly to a point of not pursuing playing the game ever again.

So, here is an easy suggestion:

Make it so that once a jungle camp has been destroyed, it will not respawn, except the buff monsters. That will give a test jungler the chance to test out starting items. Then, leave the river monsters in place. Taking out the drakes and barons are good tests and should remain.

See how easy this can be? It really wouldn't take much except a little design effort from Riot, but we need a Community who is sympathetic to the new players to see just how a jungler adversely impacts a practice game.

(note that I will ignore any responses which try to tell me how to play under these conditions. This is not about me as much as it is about new players needing the practice).

6 Comments

Drugoth7/10/2017, 6:06:41 PM1 votes

Practicing jungle in a co-op vs AI game is sub-optimal anyways, bots will rarely react to ganks in the way that a real player would, and bots don't jungle so it really isn't that great of a way to practice.

However, what about amping up the bot AI and teaching the bots how to jungle? Although this would be pretty hard to implement correctly, it could alleviate all these issues!

Noctkazaku7/10/2017, 6:15:09 PM1 votes

If I'm going to try jungle (just to learn best routes) I always try intro bots so that the top laner will have an easier time 1v2.

Mecha MaIphite7/10/2017, 6:19:12 PM1 votes

With a jungler on the team, whoever ends up in top lane cannot practice with any reality which reflects a true game.

Bot games aren't supposed to reflect actual games. They're more for testing out champions, farming first win of the day, or introducing the game to brand new players to learn very, very basic things.

AmetDeCrypt7/10/2017, 6:36:31 PM1 votes

if I'm gonna jungle in bot games I'll let them know ahead of time so they can pick someone who's able to farm from range and won't get reamed by the bots going in at them and denying them farm.

KC King Caomanac7/10/2017, 8:54:37 PM1 votes

Some good thoughts already, but as I read them, they rely upon a player doing the right thing, which is fine, but rare. IMO, it would be better if the game is designed so that jungling in a Co-Op game is less than optimum for the jungler. I can see a reason for one to have the camps at game start to test out an initial build. But to allow a jungler to remain in the jungle, paying no attention to the rest of the team, while the top laner is going crazy backed against his tower, can't get gold to build items, just truly handicapped while the jungler just does whatever they choose.

Okay, I avoided this in the first post, but to do as I describe is rude. We cannot expect players themselves to make this right. It needs a design change by Riot to contain the junglers.

Again, as I see it, just set the parameters for the standard jungle camps so that, after initial spawn, they never spawn again. As for buff monsters and river monsters, they can remain.

With those easy changes, there would be no reason to think that the players will be courteous enough to jungle but still make it a learning match, as most responses suggest, thus probably from thoughtful and fair-minded payers. LoL is not exclusive to such thinking.

I am asking for an easy design change to assist our new players in learning their builds and actions.

KC King Caomanac7/17/2017, 6:10:24 PM1 votes

More of the same today, and I need to keep on trying due to buying a new champion. You fail to comprehend that, applying a jungler in a game where there are none changes the balance. There is no argument which can stand up to that. My team had both a jungler and a bot, which ruined our mid lane. I was trying to play as ADC< but had to go to mid to cover that gap. Our jungler paid no attention to the plight of the mid lane, and I was fighting there 1 vs. 3 WITH A NEW CHAMPION!!!! Though we won, which is meaningless, I accomplished NOTHING towards learning a new champion.

This part of the Co-Op matches needs to finally be addressed. I gave a good suggestion which no one has even commented on:

Make the basic jungle camps so that, once they are beat the first time, they do not re-spawn. This would take away some of the ongoing meat for the unopposed jungler (playing like a chicken without any opposition). Let the major monsters and drakes remain as reasonable tests.

BUT, MUST FIND A WAY TO DISCOURAGE THE GREEDY JUNGLERS TAKING AWAY FROM BOT PRACTICE!!!!

See? When you choose NOT to read the original post, all you do is anger people. How sad! Now, I will get spammed for reacting to poor responses. Oh well, this isn't going anywhere with others trying to justify using a jungler where they do not belong.