A statement to Riot Games

Serber·1/16/2017, 3:35:20 PM·279 votes·12,136 views

Before you continue reading, I request you watch a video(not for the player's sake, but for you to tell me the first thing you notice)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8rxvlwNBK4

If after watching this video you haven't noticed something, I'll tell you what it is:

Damage.

Compare the kind of damage the champions then deal compared to now. The damage is currently absurd, and I think it's a big contributor to why balance is so hard to achieve. Back in these times each role had a purpose. Mages were for wave control, CC, lowend burst, Bruisers were medium damage dealers with medium tankiness, Tanks were soak machines with CC, etc..

Now everybody and everything deals so much damage that roles that were made excel at damage dealing have fallen out of favor. Mages are now wave showing, turret taking, CC, highend burst monsters with advantages at every point of the game. Bruisers are now high damage dealers with medium tankiness, and Tanks now soak damage and CC while having medium damage. Assassins don't exist anymore, because other roles can do what they do with less risk/equal reward. People dropping "ADC IN 2017 LUL" memes everywhere because they get wiped out in mere seconds by a fucking full tank Nautilus. When is this kind of problem going to be addressed? It is a seriously crippling issue this game has.

Good starts:

-Get rid of Keystones. They only grant an illusion of variety because there's bound to be a single cookiecutter build per champion 95% of the time anyway. -Reduce damage dealing with Masteries in general. It's honestly so excessive right now. You can get roughly 30% extra damage with an efficient build through Masteries, and there is even a Mastery that promotes you taking more damage in order to deal more as well.

Games are snowballing out of control, and they are ending before 25 minutes consistently these days. If that's the route you want your game to go, then feel free, but I can tell you that many people are displeased with the approach you're taking for it. I hope to see some change go toward this issue eventually.

224 Comments

SlaktarTasken1/16/2017, 4:31:43 PM90 votes

Watching this video almost brings a tear to my eye, this reminds me of how strategic and tactical league used to be. Having to actually wear your opponent down with good trades or at the very least hit more than half of your kit when all-inning made for complex plays and deserved snowballing instead of just instadropping people with braindead easy keyboard facerolls, so glorious.

Alas, it pours salt in the wound because of the realization of how spastic and bland this game has become.

HongChongDong1/16/2017, 5:35:00 PM65 votes

I like how the Kogmaw lived a whole 3-4 seconds VS the khazix with 3 levels on him and even made it close thanks to the turret. Had that been current league he'd have died in less than 2 even if the Khazix was the same level with no lead.

PaladinNO1/16/2017, 6:46:27 PM52 votes

Didn't they say they felt - based off feedback, apparently - that Summoner's Rift matches lasted too long, and that a quickening in the gamepace to be needed?

######Don't ask me to try to dig up this information, because 1) it would be more work than I will care to do over this, and 2) I could be wrong.

And so the damage increased across the board in an attempt to achieve that.

I'd say they achieved that. [stop] Except they did it at the expense of having fun when playing. Because there were a time (RIP season 3 / season 4) where one player could do a monumental screw-up, at any point in the game, and it was still recoverable.

If this is actually the truth, then I'd like to add on a personal note that I would much more like a 50-60 minute game of fun, rather than a 20 minute drag, where you pretty much know the defeat is coming already in champion select.

Which is why I am STILL sticking to ARAM, the last refuge of something containing anything resembling a fun factor.

Side track: And into all of this, Tencent took over, and turned the game into a damn cash-cow (shown in particular with the 2nd PROJECT-, 2016 Snowdown and the upcoming Lunar Revel events).

Covert Ops Gnar1/16/2017, 4:47:58 PM42 votes

people didnt die instantaneously at lvl 6 (zed vs diana)

Handy Sandy 1/16/2017, 3:42:25 PM41 votes

Yes.

Ambient Snow1/16/2017, 4:41:07 PM35 votes

Well I just find it amusing that 5 years ago When I had posted on the forums about how riot needed to buff some champions Morello had said that Riot wants to avoid DAmage creeping ( I think I got the term wrong for basically Damage output overly increasing over time)

Yet 5 years later I look at this and giggle cause riot is doing EXACTLY what they said they wanted to avoid 5 years ago.. I think the issue with this though is the fact that is starting to cater to the casual game instead of the hard core gamer,

Where a hard core game preferred more skill based and longer matches that are more skill rewarding and challenging

Casual gamers just want a faster paced game and want to be able to still do damage even though they don't have the skill or knowledge to do so ..

this is causing the issue because riot wants to increase their community popularity and to do that they have to make the game easier and shrink the scale curve in order to get new and maintain.

The evidence of this as you can see is the ranking system where you have golds and some plats that have no idea how to play this game, or what their characters do.

L0ve Is Blue1/16/2017, 7:53:17 PM33 votes

Did i just see a caitlyn not kill someone with 4 auto attacks? How blessed was the world before mid S5 I'm crying

TyrekGoldenspear1/16/2017, 3:54:57 PM31 votes

But Courage of the Colussus, Stormraiders, and Bond of stone don't throw more damage into the game.

Why can't we make keystones more utility?

NightmareAmazoX1/16/2017, 6:43:09 PM29 votes

Dear Riot Games,

Shundown is a fellow player like us in this community, He cared enough to type all this & to tell you what we players are trying to tell, So be good listeners and discuss with us fellow players.

3TWarrior1/16/2017, 8:36:31 PM18 votes

yeah, it's kinda like how illaoi is literally a "do not fight this champion at all" champion when she has her ultimate

at full build, illaoi has the potential for 10,000 damage in seconds, that's enough to almost obliterate even the hardiest of tanks and even then she has good cooldowns

i'm not complaining about illaoi, but Riot's sense of how things balance out is completely out of whack

HollowMimic1/17/2017, 8:18:01 AM14 votes

As a new player, no opinion on the matter. However, I do like the dueling that I see in the video (e.g. no one-shots)

GenghisEmo1/16/2017, 6:57:01 PM13 votes

Should have only focused on Damage Creep and not bring up the time games take. Games are actually "over" sooner than the actual match length, or at least the impression or perception of it.

Should only focus on Damage Creep as the subject here. Low elo and High elo have clear differences, Higher Elo takes less and Lower Elo takes longer (seems to take about the same before damage creep)

But yes, back to Damage Creep, we need to tone it down a bit. This is not the league of Legends I obsessed about.

Ralanr1/16/2017, 7:51:39 PM12 votes

Honestly that does seem more fun. Damage really could be toned down in general so that Squishies just aren't one shotted. I know I argue that's the weakness of squishies, but I fear Riot will do something dumb to tanks to retaliate.

Gnart Even Close1/17/2017, 12:25:14 AM12 votes

Honestly, the masteries of late are all about increasing damage or shields and sustain. There used to be interesting masteries that reduced AoE magic damage, reduced crit damage, gave a % of bonus armor/mr depending on which you had more of, reduced damage from CC'd targets, etc, etc. Now all of the masteries are either damage or shields/heals. Even one of the tank keystones gives more damage (Grasp of the Undying). That's not to say that I don't think tanks should deal damage, but that so many options have been removed. Common masteries include Recovery (heal), Tough Skin (actual tank mastery), Runic Armor (look more heal/shield), Insight (literally nothing to do with tankiness), Swiftness (doesn't reduce damage even though Tenacity/Slow Resist is nice), Courage of the Collosus (a giant shield). Literally one thing in there reduces damage, and the rest are shields/heals.

The problem with shields/heals is the same as with drain tanks: you either burst them down, or they outsustain and kill everything. This is a major design problem. Tanks should be pushed into damage reduction, not heals.

Another part I want to point out is the Season 6 changes to tank items. They took 15 MR off of Spirit Visage and 200 health off of Banshee's Veil in exchange for more heals and a lower cost. This season, we took out the damage reduction from Aegis and added, you guessed it, more shields and heals with Redemption. The support itemization has been given heal/shield power for more heals and shields.

More heals and shields sounds like it could add interesting gameplay, until you consider that damage has also been creeping steadily. The only actual places where damage has gone down recently is Fervor of Battle, the replacement of armor pen with Lethality, and a while back the lowering of the damage on Iceborn Gauntlet. Everywhere else, systems have increased damage. The problem with this kind of design is that it's incredibly binary. Either you can outdamage the heals and shields, or you can't. Either you can outdamage the enemy, or you can't. Either way, one side is blowing up and the other is going back to full health.

I don't mind tanks doing relevant damage; in fact, I think every class should do some damage. If a squishy champion takes a full spell rotation or two of an enemy tank, they should die. They're not supposed to be the tank, they're supposed to be the backline. The problem really is that squishies are glass cannons. ADCs are more problematic in my opinion, because they have so much sustain as well. This pushes the only counterplay to ADCs to be to delete them, since they'll just be a drain tank otherwise. This kind of design is not even remotely ok for either side. ADCs should not be deleted, and they should not act as drain tanks either. What we need is a carry class that can afford to build one tanky item and not have access to so much sustain. There also shouldn't be damage reduction like on Phantom Dancer or Exhaust, since it renders assassins essentially useless. ADCs should have teammates that take damage for them, not make assassins deal no damage due to stacking passives. They should also provide more than just damage. Jhin is an excellent example of a well-designed ADC. He has clear strengths and weaknesses, has a ton of clarity for his abilities, and provides some utility in addition to damage. He's not the kind of champion that just stacks Phantom Dancer and lifesteal and just draintanks literally everything (unlike a certain champion named Graves). He doesn't delete people out of stealth while also having incredible self-peel (Vayne). He's strong in lane, but he actually needs to get close enough to be engaged on and doesn't remove all agency from his enemies with his traps (unlike Caitlyn).

Regarding assassins, they should actually have clarity and have a wide enough burst window that enemies have a chance to react. Zed was a great example of this, having to use his ult with a delay on damage to finish off his enemies. Champions like Rengar (as much as I find him to be fun) are complete bullshit in that they just jump out of stealth and delete an enemy's health bar in under a second. Or you have champions like Fizz that need to be kept shut down the entire game or they snowball out of control and kill everyone. Assassins and divers should be able to pick out a squishy target and either kill them or get them low enough that they have to play too passively to do full damage for the rest of the fight. Assassins shouldn't get absolutely deleted, but they should die quickly if they get focused by more than just one person. The passive that was briefly on Youmuu's that blocked one basic attack was an awesome idea in my opinion. It blocked damage from the target the assassins was trying to kill while not making them unkillable. The new Edge of Night is also a good idea and provides a similar function while also helping the assassin avoid crowd control. Assassins shouldn't be 100% reliable though and should be fairly limited when they can't unload their combo. Their team should be at a disadvantage until they make an opening for the assassin to take out a squishy. In the assassins place, a mage could provide AoE damage and CC and help their team out that way instead. Assassins should also be strong enough in lane that they don't get poked out by the mages they should be laning against. They shouldn't bully the enemy mage out of lane either, just be strong enough that they can get items and spread pressure around the map. Leblanc is really dumb in this sense, because she often just bullies the enemy into submission and then falls off late game. Assassins should be useful at all stages of the game and shouldn't rely on feast or famine gameplay like they do now. Enemies should be able to shut down fed assassins and assassins that are behind should still pose a very significant threat.

Alright, that's enough for my giant wall of text rant.

MrDeeBee1/17/2017, 3:03:37 AM11 votes

I love it! Someone finally steps up and speaks up about these problems.

notice me Sin pi1/17/2017, 1:58:09 PM8 votes

Games are snowballing out of control, and they are ending before 25 minutes consistently these days.

did u mean: 10minutes?

Shifue Draven1/17/2017, 8:42:58 AM8 votes

I wish i would have played during this time that looks so much more fun.

SquashCannon1/17/2017, 4:16:00 PM8 votes

Holy shit vayne actually relied on her W back then instead of Q half-healthing people.

invisiblecat11/17/2017, 1:30:18 AM8 votes

A "Oneshot" should never exist unless it takes proper timing, skill, and effort

Unpaladin1/16/2017, 10:30:23 PM8 votes

Finally, this needed to be posted. This is a very likely way to fix a lot of issues that have sprung up lately, and even those that are yet to have happen.

This could soften the blows that plenty of Riot's recent practices deal to the game's overall quality; the champions team continue to release balance-warping things to a game that isn't even in the right state to support them, and the balance team takes up to four patches to even consider fixing the biggest balance problems!

Fairyfleur1/16/2017, 5:21:50 PM7 votes

How are mages turret takers? Besides Ziggs.

Blåbæret1/17/2017, 5:09:18 AM7 votes

I love it when enemy mid roams bot, gets a couple of kills, starts insta killing everyone and ends the at 20 minutes. Good game. Can't even remember last season being this snowbally

rtbf2256182411/17/2017, 1:50:27 PM7 votes

I feel like Riot wants to turn the game into a Rock Paper Scissors game rather than an open-minded arena of 2 teams. Such bullshit.

General Esdeath 1/16/2017, 7:11:43 PM3 votes

At 1:55 he took out 1/3 of Draven's HP with one auto lol the normal damage was lower but burst was bs

robotmaster1/16/2017, 4:24:33 PM1 votes

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