How to fix Zed with out changing his gameplay whatsoever.

EzraTwitch·4/14/2015, 1:29:38 PM·70 votes·3,105 views

Make his passive not work on minions.

BAM done.

Seriously, the passive working on minions is a big part of why he is able to push so hard, and lets face hit he already doesn't need the help considering he can spam manaless wave clear. Not only that, he is already super-safe, he really shouldn't have being super safe combined with the ability to flawlessly last hit under tower.

Making his passive not work on minions preserves his gameplay while slightly nerfing him during the lane phase where he is generally seen as a little too safe with a little to easy wave clear.

45 Comments

EzraTwitch4/14/2015, 1:42:07 PM6 votes

His spell applies his passive, which is why its so effortless. By taking it away versus minions last hits require more skill from the Zed player to get each minion with out dropping last hits. He cant just spam his abilities with out paying attention while still getting 100% of the wave.

Secondly, the fact he doesn't have a ranged autoattack means nothing. You go to combo him, he >W>Q>E trades even, only your wave is gone because his passive so you are losing going even do to his superior minion aggro. Secondly, You will run out of mana before he runs out of health if he has even half a brain, and now you are losing trades to his combo while you go for "free" autos.

Also, by the time a Zed finishes a Hydra laning phase is generally going to be over. This is specifically a nerf to laning phase in is not meant to nerf his late game combat effectiveness or wave clear. Its specifically to nerf his 1 through 6 lane phase to open up counterplay options, by either pressuring him under tower where he would now have difficulty last hitting, and stop him from instant clearing the creep wave with out items (or at least slow down the rate he does it giving the opponent some time to even the wave out).

To be clear I don't have a problem with Zeds Power level, I have problems with how effortless it is to attain maximum potential on him. Why play any other champ when you can use Zed and just mindlessly spam and end up out farming and out pushing your opponent. He just has too much safety combined with effortless wave clear with practically zero counter-play.

SmknWdl4/14/2015, 3:16:40 PM5 votes

No. This would remove the viability of jungle zed (plz no rito plz)

Awoof4/15/2015, 6:06:11 AM5 votes

I would be surprised if this would "fix" Zed. I mean, he's an AD champ, he will still have a much easier time last hitting with autos than a mage. It sure would be harder, but would that be so significant?

SouL1ess4/14/2015, 8:36:10 PM5 votes

Pushing wave into tower against another mid: "Oh no we will miss minions or use mana to wave clear"

Pushing wave into tower against Zed: "Thanks for the food"

Worst Mid Ever4/14/2015, 1:33:33 PM3 votes

no melee mid last hits flawlessly under tower, as soon as he goes for the ranged minions he should be eating a full free combo + autos with no return damage given, also his waveclear is from his spells not autos, and most zeds outside of diamond will build hydra in half their games over botrk

1000angrybees4/15/2015, 8:04:55 AM2 votes

Honestly? the reason I dont like zed is that while I dont think he's too strong, he seems like a genuinely safe pick.

---He's melee, but essentially plays more like a caster (who doesnt truly have resource problems, especially as the game progresses) ---His passive is super easy for last hitting ---He has a bonus ad% damage passive on his w (for.... what reason exactly? maybe scale it down a tad) ---His ult is way too safe. Ulting from 650~ range- while most likely being led backward- and getting off his q, e, and maybe an auto, and then proceeding to go back to his ult shadow at probably 800+ range while waiting for the inevitable explosion of extra damage. He also probably ignited you. Youre dead. ---'take barrier or cleanse' Listen buddy. You dont always know who youre laning against. If you did, things might go differently. and putting barrier or cleanse on a champ who most likely needs ignite? if you really want to i guess, sure. ---The most absolutely annoying thing to hear from anyone: 'QSS/ZHONYA'S' Yes. They remove/prevent death mark. But lets real talk for one minute here: A.) QSS is sort of a waste of gold, having no other effects than to protect against death mark. It doesnt build into anything most Mids would use. I'd rather buy zhonya's (which brings me to the next point) B.) Zhonya's is god damn expensive. You most likely wont even have it by the time zed gets his ult. And even if you do have it? A shit ton of mid champs have resource problems. Congrats, you avoided the ult, but you cant follow up because one combo most likely drained at least 50% of your resources and your cd's are probably garbage. --- 'just build armor' Incredibly weak choice, especially on champs that cant deviate from certain build paths while laning. Most likely has some sort of armor pen at the start of the game, while proceeding to build either cleaver or last whisper first (either that or botrk and THEN an armor pen item) --- the escape potential. A lot of assassins have this, but not generally while killing someone at the exact same time. --- excellent pushing/split pushing power. Compounds with his lack of resource trouble and escapes.

bunies4/15/2015, 9:54:22 PM2 votes

his ult needs to be changed back into be in an engage instead of (engage+disengage), he needs to lose the +25% bonus ad on his W aswell

NuSix34/15/2015, 7:36:05 AM2 votes

Make him use mana. Done.

General Spacey4/15/2015, 11:20:55 PM2 votes

Zed has plenty of pushing power in the mid game with his EQWW combo. He doesnt even need it. I think it helps him most in the early game, where enemy mages would lose alot of mana trying to keep up the lane clear speed he has.

BlackEyesBlue4/15/2015, 12:23:33 PM2 votes

I'd just lie to see him get a mana bar! (Yasou too while were on the subject.)

His kit is ridiculously versatile and safe as it stands. With nothing but cooldowns to slow him down he can stay in lane indefinitely! Giving him a further edge against any mana champ. (Once again, same for Yasuo...) :P

Shïren4/15/2015, 4:10:58 PM1 votes

Revert changes to r. Bam. done.

Knight SoIaire 4/15/2015, 10:42:13 PM1 votes

or reduce his q's range

so he doesnt get to abuse its low cooldown for both poking and farming at almost the same time with this change you would also make his shurikens deal full dmg to secondary targets as a compensation

but zed would lose this "either i win or we are farming" pattern during the laning phase lets face it, thats how every zed plays, the only time where he will be actualy vulnerable is when he is 100% sure and safe to win the fight

changing his passive wont realy hurt him, he has energy after all, so it might help him more than hurt him (stronger lasthits=he unintentionaly pushes when you peck him a little), owerall the problems are in his lack of interaction

TheLuminosity4/16/2015, 2:44:11 AM1 votes

This is one thing that makes "Zed" Zed! His great wave pushing, I don't agree with this idea personally.

AMYS GRAVE4/14/2015, 11:17:52 PM1 votes

Well, this would be a good change but it does change his playstyle significantly because it hurts his waveclear. Not that that wouldn't be called for.

Dunkrius2g4/15/2015, 4:46:29 AM1 votes

+1. Reasonable nerf. Atleast these zed mains have to work harder just to last hit.

Dengeden4/15/2015, 7:27:51 AM1 votes

he already doesn't need the help considering he can spam manaless wave clear.

Actually, if you've ever played against a Zed, you might've notice that he actually does run out of energy if he can't use his shadow slash (read, stand in the middle of your minions without getting punished) to regain energy.

If they are going to nerf the last unnerfed assassin in the game like that, they should give it a cooldown against minions (and monsters). Something like "this can only affect minions once every x seconds".

Dies to Wolves4/15/2015, 7:28:47 AM1 votes

this would be a mere quality-of-life nerf. It really wouldn't make a meaningful difference, he'd still be "annoying to play against" (though I honestly much prefer playing against zed than a BUNCH of other champions), fun to play as, but last hitting minions wouldn't be as satisfying (have you heard that delicious sound he makes when his passive hits? so gooooooood). The only "tangible" difference would be that he'd need to pay a little bit more attention when last hitting in the early levels.

Nielarken4/15/2015, 8:15:57 AM1 votes

Zed needs more because right now he is in no way shape or form fun to play against he combines everything people dont like into a single champion. Free poke, free wave clear, free escapes, and free damage. He has no counter play besides the player using him fucking up.

Mecha MaIphite4/15/2015, 10:26:06 AM1 votes

They could give him his old ult back. That kind of forces him to use his W if he wants to escape, meaning he can't w>ult to get someone far away or use it for extra damage.

junglerboy164/15/2015, 1:23:24 PM1 votes

First off: I don't play or enjoy playing Zed, so this is not coming from any sort of bias.

Now, the thing that really irks me about your post is that this change would drastically change his gameplay, because he would not be able to CS under Turret anywhere near as well, and it is in fact a direct kit change. I am not opposed to this, I'm just annoyed at your false advertising. Now if you had said "BotRK and other Item actives don't work with his ultimate" that would be something that doesn't change his gameplay, but would still be fixing a broken interaction.

Lux Plot4/15/2015, 1:27:27 PM1 votes

this is like saying remove zed jg

Depóngo4/15/2015, 1:42:57 PM1 votes

As a Zed main, I approve this suggestion.