Zyra Is Underwhelming And A Bit Conflicted.

Waka FIocka·5/11/2019, 9:55:38 AM·15 votes·7,132 views

Hello I am kinda new to Zyra. I love the champion to be quite honest and think she is my favorite so far. I am not really sure what she has been through over the years in terms of nerfs and such. Right now she is a 'support' but I have some issues with her utility and usefulness in the overall picture.

  • Her Ultimate: For one, her ult is very easy for enemies to dodge and doesn't seem to do much damage on its own as a burst. I also never seem to have enough seeds/plants during my ult due to the RNG passive/fast paced games. The plants attack very randomly, sometimes even hitting minions instead of the champions. In this case I feel that plants should prioritize champions as it is a super plant and you did blow your R to enrage them. Seeing them hit minions and then get one shot by the enemy or just sit idly is just sad.
  • Her Passive: It's very difficult to reach a high level for better passive spawn rates as support. The seed spawn radius is... i almost feel like the seeds should only randomly spawn in a frontal area wherever zyra is facing so that you can use them to poke enemies instead of what it is now, where seeds spawn behind her and way off at 7 o'clock or something. Very odd, very frustrating-- especially at low levels. I would have to stand still in one spot for a hot minute to set up my seeds how I would like to and by then the enemy has either left or pushed me out of that spot as a group. Seeds like to nestle in the mobs which, as a support, isn't great. CS with spellthiefs isn't what you want. Hitting the whole wave of minions isn't what a support is supposed to do. I don't really enjoy how Zyra is forced to push waves because her random seeds are always around the minions. Her plants always end up attacking them even if you don't cast a spell on the wave too because your enemy will most likely step out of their range to change the target. I feel like there's a conflict between Zyra who used to be a midlaner and is now a support but some things are still not quite lining up for the role.
  • Her Plants: Melee one hits them. AOE spells decimate them. Ranged is like 2 hits early game. Mid game ludens proc even one shots them... I don't quite understand why her plants are this vulnerable when they are her lifeblood. Without them she is nothing. Considering she can only control one seed with her W every 20-12 seconds it really is rough to burn all that mana and two cooldowns for what a simple Lux E could do. She doesn't exert map pressure when enemies know they can simply plow through them (even super plants).
  • Her Utility: As it stands currently all I feel like most games is a CC bot. Land root, R, poke if possible, and hope I can get some good seed placements for trade contribution. I am still learning how to best place her plants so that they will last through a fight but it's .... it's rough, man. I envy casters like Lux who are super strong without the RNG, even getting half their ULT cd refunded if they get a kill with it. Zyra as a mage support is leagues below other options that simply do it better. Other support mages have shields or some kind of self buffs but Zyra does not. At all. I can't shield anyone, not even myself. I don't heal teammates or anything like that. All Zyra does is damage and peel/disengage. So why is she so feast or famine with her damage? Her passive is so random and doesn't feel fun or engaging at all. Rarely does it bring anything to the table. Being able to poke when I see an opening instead of when RNG blesses me with the possibility of one, considering the seeds aren't instantly trampled or the enemy doesn't one hit them before they do anything.

I have some suggestions though for improving her kit. It would be really nice to see her passive either changed completely and the current one is piled into her W or it stays as is and is made a little more predictable and viable. So many seeds go unused currently and to be quite honest they often can be bad for me because the enemy knows where I am if one passively pops up on the other side of a jungle wall. For her ranged plant, I feel they should target champions a little better than they currently do. Zyra isn't a champion you want to walk up and AA someone with. You rely on your plants for that and currently they are in a really bad spot if your enemy knows at all how feeble they really are.

It's confusing to me how a champ like Heim can have a tank turret and mini turrets that take a lot to break but Zyra? Nah fam. Squishy all around and very feast or famine. Teemo has his nuke shrooms that are invisible and tankier than Zyra's plants. I could go on and on about both types of plants, their AI, casting and growing them just to see them smack a caster minion, etc. but it would be a long post if I did.

Aside from that I guess it would be nice to do something negative to the enemy when they trample a seed, similar to teemo's mushrooms but not as severe. A DOT or some kind of stacking rage that builds in Zyra as she sees the enemies trample her babies. Even making the enemy stand on them longer like you would with Reksai's burrows would work. That way you have at least some chance to do something with the seed almost as a bait for your adc or your own counterplay. Just something really because at the moment Zyra is very difficult to play when her kit works so hard against her. She is such a cool champion and I won't stop playing her even if she is sub-optimal.. but I do hope that one day she will be in a better spot where players want to choose her at about the same rates as a Lux/Morgana.

PS: Where's the Elderwood Zyra skin at? It would really suit her! PPS: this post was long anyways. lol

40 Comments

Hot LeBlanc Yuri5/11/2019, 10:30:20 AM6 votes

Zyra is a mid laner forced into support, but after the nerfs shes still a midlaners that pretends to be a support

5050BS5/11/2019, 12:17:47 PM6 votes

Riot wont Fix her with minion changes because they ONLY want her as a Support when 75% of all Zyra Mains wanted her Mid like she was suppose to be. (Those that want her Support are new in the last 2 years or part of the 25%)

She will need a Complete rework and what I hate is that Riot will make her a full on Support then.

Ahri Baka5/11/2019, 11:50:01 AM4 votes

She was never that strong She was just nerfed because of the Circle jerk

PopCorn Chick3n5/12/2019, 7:16:04 AM3 votes

All I wanted from the Zyra's rework was changed her passive into something interesting like poison from her spells or plants, and W to recharge the seeds faster when kills minions. Changing her Q shape from circle to rectangle shape is the last straw for Mid lane Zyra because she can't compete against pretty much any mage and so much harder to poke the enemy down.

GankLord5/11/2019, 6:22:13 PM2 votes

She was once one of the strongest mid lane mages in season's 3-5 and then Riot happened. I used to be a Zyra main and imo opinion she's only good as a support she can't compete with anyone midlane. She was my favorite champion and they gutted her to force her into the support role. As far as Riot is concerned she'll never be viable mid again. Just the interaction between her W and E gives you insight into how they hamstrung her.

PaffWasTaken5/11/2019, 6:03:53 PM2 votes

https://i.imgur.com/1Dd7F5h.png[/img]

If this is what it means to be underwhelming, well, I don't know what to think anymore

Anime Fizz5/11/2019, 6:24:51 PM2 votes

53% wr = underwhelming.

Zed at 49% wr = broken as fuck

Never change boards.

The23rdGamer5/11/2019, 8:50:05 PM2 votes

Good quality post.

Personally I do like the fact that seeds spawn randomly around her and she still gets to spawn some seeds where she specifically wants to. Considering her seeds instantly appear when she chooses where they go (and have a fairly short / quiet animation when he passive decides where they go) it would be very frustrating if she could just drop 5 plants under you and then Q them instantly.

They could get rid of the delay on being able to trample Zyra's plants to mitigate this, but I still don't feel like that would be an adequate solution to its potential abuse.

HOWEVER, I do believe that her passive is underwhelming. I would love for her passive to be on her W (and W remain how it is now otherwise) and her actual passive be changed to something else... although I have no idea what you would change it to.

thefatlazycat5/11/2019, 12:05:03 PM1 votes

Zyra was gutted because, like most CT champs she was a failure, and needed to be nerfed because she couldn't be allowed to be viable for the health of the game

GankLord5/11/2019, 6:25:03 PM1 votes

If you google season 3 Zyra and compare it to Season 9 Zyra you'll really understand how underwhelming she is and how sloppy and random her new kit is.

Maleficuš5/12/2019, 1:52:19 PM1 votes

I've recently made a comment, mentioning her conflictions on this rework concept thread in the comments - on how she's 2 halves of different things, etc...

SamBunzly5/12/2019, 2:19:15 AM1 votes

I can agree with nearly everything you say. My only conflict with it would be that the seeds randomly spawning is something beneficial to her both in mid and support. They provide zoning to help deter ganks and fighting from odd angles. Assuming you're playing support, you can keep up seeds nearly everywhere. Depending on the placement of your seeds, you can use your passive plants to distract/damage the jungler / laner while you use your w plants to focus the other.

Eleshakai5/11/2019, 5:47:03 PM1 votes

I disagree with most of your points - but the point about the passive I agree with. I like the concept of 'plants everywhere' but I really wish there was SOME control over it.

LordGeovanni5/12/2019, 7:04:52 AM1 votes

Zyra is supposed to be a dot mage through her plants but they have so much burst in her kit through her Q and ult. because riot cant ever not give burst even when its supposed to be DoT.

Thefrostyviking5/11/2019, 12:34:14 PM1 votes

The reason Zyra´s plants have to be so squishy compared to say heimer turrets is because she can put them next to the enemy champ from range, unlike heimer.

Her W CD is high but its free .....why in the world complain about free damage, really? '

However it is fair to complain about the R-buffed plants not targeting champs, they should do that in my opinion.

You generally aim at hitting your E before you R, just like Lux looks to hit her Q first before using her R.

I´ve played a fair bit of Zyra myself, and when you are even a bit ahead you can kill pretty much any squishy with E-Q-R, barely even needing plants depending on how fed you are, or if you used ignite.

The only reason i find her a bit bad is because she isnt really great at protecting her marksmen meaning they often die when attacked and thus her team has a problem.

However when picked and played in the right teamcomp against the right enemies she can easily takeover botlane by herself between her constant and damaging harass, she doesnt deal as well with tanks as brand but she is better at dealing with squishies.