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Can Someone explain Riot's balancing logic to me?

Traptintime·1/8/2016, 8:56:40 PM·3 votes·846 views

So Swain was nerfed in this current patch and as someone who plays a fair amount of him I wasn't terribly thrilled about it but I was understanding of it. Swain's win rate was well over 50% in both the top and the mid role. He had always been a champion that was relatively successful but played by a relatively few people. However his synergy with the new mastery deathfire touch had admittedly pushed him a bit over the edge. This all said a nerf to him seemed reasonable.

But while they nerfed him they also nerfed deathfire touch which is where alot of his new found power was coming from. Again I can understand where riot was coming from but as soon I saw both of these nerf's I knew swain was going to get hit hard, but oh well champs constantly rise and fall in the tier list.

However what I don't understand is the rational behind this nerf when compared to the rational used for Brand who had been dominating both the mid and support role thanks to deathfire touch. Brand received a very mild nerf of slightly upping the mana cost of his W. The rational for this and I quote "Since Deathfire Touch (Brand’s go-to- Keystone) is also being nerfed, we’re going a little lighter here". Meanwhile Swain gets crushing blow to the length of his cc which is crucial for his (and pardon my french) slow as f*ck ass.

Heres the thing, Swain was described in the same patch notes as "Swain’s pretty good right now, using Corrupting Potions and Deathfire Touches to terrorize the world." How can Swain be considered to be terrorizing the rift to the point that he needs a strong nerf when at the same time Brand gets nothing. He was not being played as much as Brand nor was he winning as much as Brand was. I'm also sure everyone remembers the fact that Brand was heavily being band while I'm sure none of you thought of banning Swain once. The fact was Brand was far more cancerous and the stats prove it too.

Brand Win rate Mid for patch 5.23: 56.30% Win rate Mid for patch 5.22: 56.82% Play rate Mid for patch 5.23: 11.17% (Average champ play rate for this patch was 4.08%) Play rate Mid for patch 5.22: 7.34% (Average champ play rate for this patch was 4.08%)

Win rate Sup for patch 5.23: 52.23% Win rate Sup for patch 5.22: 52.22% Play rate Sup for patch 5.23: 9.46% (Average champ play rate for this patch was 7.14%) Play rate Sup for patch 5.22: 5.22% (Average champ play rate for this patch was 7.14%) *there is a large spike in the people playing support brand when it becomes evident how broken he is

Swain Win rate Mid for patch 5.23: 52.23% Win rate Mid for patch 5.22: 52.22% Play rate Mid for patch 5.23: 1.76% (Average champ play rate for this patch was 4.08%) Play rate Mid for patch 5.22: 2.12% (Average champ play rate for this patch was 4.08%)

Win rate Top for patch 5.23: 51.35% Win rate Top for patch 5.22: 50.82% Play rate Top for patch 5.23: 0.84% (Average champ play rate for this patch was 5.23%) Play rate Top for patch 5.22: 0.90% (Average champ play rate for this patch was 5.23%)

Swain's win rates and play rates while good were far from what I would expect of a champion terrorizing the rift as opposed to Brand who was in my opinion terrorizing the rift in a rampant wildfire sense. Since patch 5.24 swain has fallen well under a 50% win rate in both top and mid and his play rate has dropped even lower than it already was. Meanwhile Brand's numbers for mid have dropped , but he still is well above average in both win rate and play rate and worse his abusive stats in the support role have stayed relatively unchanged. To be perfectly honest this was the result is what I and a number of the people who commented on the patch notes predicted would happen.

So at the end of the day I just want someone to clarify how riot determines who is abusive and who is not as well as who to nerf and who not to. Why was Swain not given the same benefit of the doubt as brand that he would also be aligned to a healthier state with the nerfs to deathfire touch? Because after all of this it couldn't be less clear to me.

7 Comments

VictoryDance961/8/2016, 9:01:42 PM1 votes

I have not lost to a Brand yet... I mean, you never see them anyway, so what is the problem?

AyRe CoNteMpT1/8/2016, 9:01:47 PM1 votes

riot doesnt determine anything. they are just humans and (WILD GUESS!) not even very respectable ones for the most part.

i would absolutely bet the silverplayers that make up ritos balance team are like "OMG SWAIN SO OP WENT 30/1 IN ARAM BETTER NERF" or some shit, just like all the noobs on the boards. probably played one game against swain and were like "zomfg i cant do shit, he terrorizes the world!!!11"

with this, they pulled a typical rito

TehNACHO1/8/2016, 9:04:18 PM1 votes

Win rate is not the be all end all statement on a champion and whether they should be buffed or nerfed. If that logic were to apply, we would've buffed Urgot or old Poppy a long time ago and realize just how actually cancerous their kits are.

On that note, I recall Reds stating that they wanted to be very careful about champions [like Swain] back when they removed the original Executioner's Calling due to how toxic of a design ultra healers can be in some situations. It could just be the case that the stigma of a champion who loads most of his damage through targeted abilities while healing holds over that of a mostly skillshot and combo reliant champion.

TeemoJenkins1/8/2016, 9:05:04 PM1 votes

For Swain I think it was a good balance change, like when they nerf'd Volibears pursuit to make it so you actually had to make a choice. Makes Swain less of an absolute lane bully as you can get away from him at early levels with more ease. I've found myself after the nerf being more tactical playing him than before. Previously I would just spam root, and kill them, now I have to play smarter.

With regard to Brand, anyone that goes straight at him will get a mouthful of hurt, he's designed to be a direct damage burster. If you let him get his full combo on you you're going to be the worse for it. If he can't land his Q or W, his damage is largely mitigated. I find that those losing to brand are typically playing all in champs that will close distance with him and that's what you want, if you juke his Q and W, you're good.

Delofasht1/8/2016, 10:44:10 PM1 votes

Statistical implication isn't really a good measure, it's more the idea of Swain's point and click reliability. The take away is that if it requires less "skill" than it needs to be less powerful. In this game I feel that's a bad take away, but the answer is generally to make all the champs more skill reliant so that they can all have that same power level without worrying about being nerfed or ignored. My favorite champ has been almost completely ignored for 4 seasons, and thus I hear all the time about how bad they are, when it's actually the inverse.

Reliable skills that fail to make their impact are FAR more punishing for the user, everything is balanced around them being used successfully and fully and thus the result is that it costs the user much more if they don't make good use of it. If you just slow the opponent with Swain's slow, and don't follow up with the other skills you lose out the power of that combination, but because it's so much "easier" to do it, you get punished if the opponent happens to have a dash to rid themselves of the slow and thus negate your follow up damage. It's just punished that player doubly.

TL;DR: Riot might want to look into the state of the game in relation to the "reliability" of skills being a balancing point compared to the detriment of the champion should they be unable to make full use of the "reliable" skill because of dashes, shields, and other ways to negate the "guaranteed" damage.