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Sona's Rework - Discussion thread

JimmynatorB··16 votes·13,530 views

So the rework is hitting live. You can post your suggestions / worries / thanks in this thread. Here are some guidelines:

  1. Please, don't say OMG RITO YOU KILLED SONA GG WP. Keep the discussion constructive and let's try to help Fearless instead of giving him headaches and depressing him.
  2. Ignore comments of the sort of "Riot doesn't care" or "This is just bad". Don't harass Riot or other people. It doesn't help anyone pointing out mistakes and not giving any solution.
  3. Inform yourself before offering a suggestion and make sure it hasn't been discussed before, otherwise you're going to be ignored.
  4. Please, post your thoughts before up- or downvoting a post. This way people will know why their post is being disliked or liked.

Why was Sona reworked?

Essentially, we took Sona to the update board because we saw a unique opportunity to make her more rewarding and more fun. She wasn’t terribly strong or weak, but her kit clearly lacked high moments and overall satisfaction. We wanted to keep her theme as it was and retain her awesome Crescendo while giving her basic abilities a more visible and tangible impact. Oh, and if we could sneak in some fancy texture updates in the process (and we could!), then all the better.

- Fearless

What is the rework supposed to feel like?

Sona’s gameplay now revolves more around moments of power. Instead of hanging back and winning a war of attrition during laning, Sona’s now got the kit to power up her allies and save their lives when a fight turns against them. Auras are smaller and more visible now, so getting the most of them requires great positional awareness for Sona and coordination with her allies. This allows us to reward great play with much more impact for each of her songs. You’ll be able to make plays as Sona, earn your team kills and save lives with clutch ability casts and smart positioning. At the same time, the enemy team has larger windows to fight back in thanks to her longer cooldowns, adding in clarity and counterplay to Sona’s kit. We can't wait to see what players can do with her update.

- Fearless

Here's the rework page for reference: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/champion-update/sona-maven-of-the-strings

Please remember to like the thread so that the conversation doesn't die and to keep the thread on top of the page (It would be nice if it could be made a sticky post, but I don't have the power to do that).

103 Comments

Straight Jackin13 votes

I've played 296 ranked games as Sona over Season 3 and 4. I've felt like Sona has been in a good place for the last 2 seasons. She has a lower than average pick rate. No one has ever requested me to play her in champ select. No one considers her God tier support. Sometimes people will even ask me if I can play Morgana instead when I go to pick her. However every Sona main I know seems very happy with where she is. How many champs in this game can you say that about unless that champ is overpowered?

She feels extremely balanced currently as she is on Live.

Reworking Sona so that everyone in game knows that after she uses an ability she'll probably move in the direction of her ADC to 'tag' them is a serious telegraph. Making her squishier early game, lowering her aura range and increasing her cooldowns is going to kill her early laning phase. Currently I take Q at lvl 1. Every Sona main knows that if you get hit by anything at lvl 1 you are in a VERY bad spot compared to most supports.

I don't like the direction they are taking her at all. I'm at work and don't have a lot of time but there's other problems/issues this will cause.

Rozzeta11 votes

So, Sona's rework is released, as an experiment, in early stages of testing. Only 27 days later the rework is hitting live.

ShadowGlaive21310 votes

I wish they included the numbers changes on her page. I think it's more visible whether or not something is is being buffed or nerfed if you actually look at the numbers. When the changes to Nid came they displayed all of her numbers, it feels like they're hiding it for Sona = =; I already posted my thoughts on a forum I made yesterday so I guess I could just repeat it here.

Sona is my main support and while I haven't been keeping count I'm fairly certain I've played over 100 games with her. I don't have PBE access so I haven't been able to try the new Sona. I love Sona how she is and I find this rework completely unwarranted. Despite many players saying she's under powered or can't compete with current high pick supports, she's had an over 50% win rate for quite some time. The justification for the rework is that Sona is unsatisfying to play and lacks play making ability outside of her ult, and that much of her power is invisible because they reside in her auras. Not everyone will or can appreciate the aura support play style that is a huge part of Sona's identity. Not all play styles will be popular in comparison to others, much like not all genres of music will be popular in comparison to others. I don't understand why Sona must be changed to conform to more popular play styles when there are over 100 other champs to choose from who can be flashy or make plays if that's the desired style. If her auras are too invisible new visual effects should take care of that, or at least try that first. The new VFX should help players realize and take notice of Sona's auras more. Appreciation is sure to follow realization. Reworking her kit without trying just the VFX first seems like cutting off a leg because of an infection without trying antibiotics first or something of the sort. I also feel that part of Sona is that she is seen as one of the lower skill cap champs and often relaxing to play as a result, and I don't think that should change. If you MUST give her more play making ability I like an idea my brother came up with where if you get a certain combination of chord procs you get a new effect. For example, since it is possible to get 2 chords off if charged initially, hitting an enemy with an e chord and an additional e chord before the effects of the first chord wear off results in a root. If more visibility is needed the first chord can mark the target like Nid's abilities now do. It doesn't make sense to me to change Sona from an aura support to a friendly AoE caster nor do I find the idea of chasing allies to tag them appealing.

To add to that I don't like how her ratios have been cut. I liked the fact that Sona had an AP off build and disapprove of Riot funneling supports into one role, as they've attempted to do with Lulu and Soraka. I agree with many others on the fact that her range decrease is an AoE hazard and that she really doesn't have any added play making ability, she still has to rely on her ult for that. Her increased cooldowns also take away Sona's ability to spam which was a huge part of her gameplay identity imo.

JimmynatorB3 votes

Numbers aren't in the rework page because they can be tuned if she needs some power. It is a bit early to talk about her power level, so we should try to talk about the overall changes more than about balance. Also, remember her Q aura now has an AP ratio she didn't have, so some ratios may seem like nerfs, but they just moved that power to another place, just like hew W heal was moved a bit to her new shield.

It is true that they could have tried giving auras some kind of VFX before reworking her to see if that fixed her problems. It would be nice to have a response from someone involved in the rework to see if they actually tried this.

Your brother's suggestion is something Riot doesn't want because it would make sona very hard to play. If you've ever played DotA and tried Invoker, you'll see what I mean.

As I played her on the PBE, I can say that she is still relaxing to play, as her only new mechanic is the aura tagging one, which isn't as relaxing as the passive auras she had, but they are OK in that regard.

ShadowGlaive2139 votes

If you look at the PBE forums you can see how much Riot is willing to change their ideas as a result of feedback from the community. Sona's auras used to be 700(q) and 1000(w,e). Most players said the range on her "auras" were too small, changes originally being at 300 units. What did they do? Only increased it 50 units. Players said they missed the spaminess of Sona and felt that was a part of her. What did they do? Originally they had her cooldowns increased from 7 to 10 for all. They only decreased q to 8s while increasing e to 12. By looking at the numbers you can see what they insist for Sona.

If you don't mind, I would like to interpret your opinion with better context, how much have you played PBE and live Sona?

JimmynatorB2 votes

Flaming Riot isn't doing any good though. I'm not a Sona main like many are or claim to be, but I've played quite a bit of sona in live as I mostly play support. In PBE I've played a few bot matches to test the changes in her playstyle and some live matches, though I had 200 ping so it was hard to check balance.

I can say her spammy nature is the same in lane. You pretty much only spammed Q before, and were very careful not to spam W or E too much so that you didn't go OOM, so that part is pretty much the same as before.

The aura ranges are much smaller because they pack way more power than they did before, so she needs a weakness (putting yourself in dager) to balance it out.

ShadowGlaive21310 votes

You mistake criticism for hate.

KnightSlayer1159 votes

posted this earlier but, i will put it here

I spot a myrid of flaws with this.... but i will name the main ones 1- Sona, pre-4.13, was based around aiding allies constantly and giving them a buff/HP at Any time With this update (Which needs a rework), she now has to be more precise, making it harder for newer supports to get into being supports... which that brings me to problem number 2 2- You first designed her as a beginner support that was fun to play and rewarding to beginner and expert supports, and I, like a lot of other people, main Sona because of this... now newer supports will suffer due to her "new gameplay", which is not rewarding, in fact, she is now more tedious... I love Sona, but this is a real kick in the happy place to the poor mute... 3- She needed to stay back because of her low defenses, and her kit was designed to help her AND allies so she can: A) not die and B) make sure her allies don't die annd C) make sure the enmey dies. Now she is much more suspectable to the powers that be ganks and enemy pushing... I know you will probably ingore this... but just, let the mute girl be.. Though the VU is much needed.. but thats about it...

RiotFearless10 votes

We're actively watching Sona feedback right now. Obviously it is very early for Sona's update, but you aren't ignored. Just wanted to let you know we are actively watching for feedback.

KnightSlayer1157 votes

Yeah, sorry for sounding negative...

I just am very concerned, like other Sona players, about the future of The Maven.

Thanks for understanding :D Sona

DreamingOf Peace6 votes

Don't feel sorry we tried to politely explain why this rework sucks and they didn't care about that kind of feedback from the start. Now it's time to complain angrily like Lee Sin players because Riot obviously doesn't like when a ton of people do that.

WestboroGaming3 votes

Just like they did with Karma... yeaaahhh >.>

Edit: actually that wasn't nice, downloading patch to test her out. I'm just still bitter about the Karma thing and now it looks like they fundamentally changed how Sona is played. Shoulda given them the benefit of the doubt on wither they will listen to feedback this time.

Luner Hunter6 votes

so... now that everyone can see that old sona (pre-rework) is actually much stronger i don't assume rito will be doing a revert to the old auras and keeping the VU eh? i mean its not like all the people who were saying rework sona was gonna be garbage were wrong... 300 range really rito? 50% powerchord dmg and reduced the Q for that "bonus damage" she should have had from her Q's passive + that 50% you took anyways?!?! AND you can't Powerchord towers anymore... her W is weaker still at lvl 1 than prerework unless my ADC is litteraly almost half dead about the only good thing is her E actually does something but now it doesnt apply to minions and only half effective on your team and her ult is okay it didnt change much :|

RiotFearless6 votes

I know you've been very upset about the changes. I've seen the angry posts in every thread I've started. We did shift some of Sona' power away from her levels 1/2/3, but the trade she got out of that was a great deal more influence and usefulness in every other phase of the game.

Also, what leads you to think that she can't powerchord towers? Powerchord is literally untouched save for the change to the Q bonus ratio. I actually fought to not change that, so if that's not working, that's actually a bug.

Hellioning17 votes

Why make her already difficult early levels even more difficult? Especially in this enviroment, full of early engages, if she gets hit by Braum/Morg/Nami/Thresh Q or Leona E she's dead. And supports are supposed to be strongest in the laning phase, so I dunno why you would make her weaker there in exchange for the rest of the game.

I think they were referring to the bonus on her Q. That doesn't work on towers, so that does slightly nerf her pushing power.

GhostStalker10 votes

We did shift some of Sona' power away from her levels 1/2/3, but the trade she got out of that was a great deal more influence and usefulness in every other phase of the game.

Yeah but those levels 1-2-3 will dictate the rest of the lane unless there's massive mistakes made by the enemy. I don't think preying on mistakes alone should be the only way to come back as sona. And if sona is just flat out stronger than everyone at levels 4+ then it'll be toxic laning against her.

Levels 1-2-3 I think is incredibly vital where all supports should be relatively equal in how they affect the lane. If you fail to establish strong presence in those levels then I believe that support either played it bad and/or had a bad matchup, or the champion in question that is supporting is a weak support and should not be played.

Even Soraka establishes a strong level 1-2-3 through massive sustain and auto-attack harass.

FatedTitan14 votes

Fearless, I don't play Sona, so I have nothing to really give ya in that regard, but I do want to say one thing in regards to reworks in general.

Do you really believe that we think y'all are listening to all of our feedback and will take it into account? Do you really believe that? There have just been way too many VU/GU that were downvoted into oblivion but pushed Live despite player feedback for me to believe that. Karma and Trundle are two that stick out like sore thumbs. There's also Xerath who got a lot of negativity spewed toward his rework.

The fact is that people grow to love Champions how they are. Then a designer comes in and shifts them entirely, whether gameplay wise or visually/lore wise. Then fans get ignored in favor of people who never play them. And you expect us to believe you care about our feedback?

I don't know you Fearless, but if you're anything like the myriad of designers that have worked on reworks in the past, you aren't looking for the feedback that hurts. You're looking for "Where can we fix what's wrong with NEW Sona?" instead of "Do players like NEW Sona? Should we revert to OLD Sona?" etc.

Maybe you aren't like them at all. And like I said, I have nothing to contribute about the Sona Update. All I will say is that the players here that are giving their concern that you seem to be pushing to the side as if it's unimportant (that's the tone I received reading your messages), they're the fans of Sona that just loved her how she was and didn't want a change. Don't ignore their opinions. And I know that you can countless others have worked on Sona for a long time to make her feel good and be more interactive. But maybe Sona players never wanted that...maybe Sona players liked her how she was. Don't be so prideful as to ignore the "revert" option.

I still miss old Trundle to this day. And I still feel Riot spit in Trundle fans' faces when he was redone. Don't leave Sona fans with that awful taste in their mouths. I know you have no desire to do that. But like I said. If the majority are shouting "revert", don't shout back "onward we march with new Sona!" Because you won't get applause back. You'll just leave a lot of the playerbase feeling anger and frustration with Riot.

I guess that's all I've got to say.

RiotFearless11 votes

So the idea that we would stop all progress to address something that we believe is problematic or unhealthy is not something we can support. Sometimes, we as designers make mistakes and create things that are bad for the game. We have to change them. Sona's previous iteration was very problematic, and led to us always having to keep her less satisfying to keep her even close to balanced. We did seek out player feedback to shape what elements we kept and what we changed. The information from the Let's Talk about Sona threads shaped our understanding of Sona and changed some of my goals.

That being said, we don't make every change players want, and sometimes we look at the changes players request, and try to understand what is causing those desires, and react to that.

I'm sorry Trundle stung. No one on Champion Update is anything but devoted to players. The team has a really rough job of changing things that we know will be better for the health at the game, at the cost of disruption and pain for some amount of existing players. I can't tell you how much that does weigh on people, but they happily tank that for the good of League. We don't do these projects for applause, and I signed up for Sona knowing I was going to be changing a champ that tons of our players love, that I love, and that my very good friends love. I knew I'd have to do a bunch of these posts to defend the work, and try to convince people that we make these changes because we are working on our favorite game, and we believe these changes make our game healthier, and better, and give us room to keep making this game for a really long time.

Thanks for the post.

Hellioning13 votes

I get that you probably know better than us, but when you make several threads asking for feedback and state that you're going to put her on the PBE longer for more feedback and then seemingly ignore said feedback, it leaves a bad taste on my mouth. The only time I actually saw people's feedback in the threads do anything was when you increased the snuggle zones by 50. So I get that I can't expect you to revert the changes, but I'm geniunely pissed off that Riot pushed this rework off of the PBE despite telling us that it wasn't even close to done when they released it on the PBE.

Flemman3 votes

I think that , even skarner and rengar who still need work after rework stay on PBE for a much longer time >-<

We misunderstood them completely when they say they put her on pbe much early than other, we assume that she will stay longer because of that but it was only to state that the rwork was on a 1/10 stage (even if not so much change after :s)

RiotFearless6 votes

So the general approach for PBE is to put something on PBE for the patch cycle before it releases. For example, while 4.11 was live, we generally had 4.12 stuff on PBE. For Sona, we had her on PBE while she was still getting particle effects and a lot of balance and mechanical discussion, and she was on for two patch cycles (with 4.12 and 4.13 content).

As to what feedback we addressed, we looked at mechanical changes like duration of the Q proc and size of the auras, while also addressing things like Sona not playing her music after the aura casts and people not being able to read her ult well enough.

It seems very likely that the communication for the extra time on PBE set up very high expectations. Given that we were also making changes to address our internal play testing and feedback, we had the problem of having PBE asking for things that we new we couldn't support due to how strong we saw her in controlled testing.

Flemman1 votes

As you mention the ult, I had a game today where I heard the song of it but die 1 millisecond later and it doesn't go on cooldown (well the game was already lost so not affect the result of it :p)

I always though that this spell was an insta-dance ability, did it actually have a cast time?

Arnai3 votes

Yes, it has a cast time. I don't know how often i have already heard Crescendo while dieing, without the spell casted.

Hellioning11 votes

Thanks for telling us this after she released. All we knew was that Sona's W got nerfed because 'she was outputting too much healing over time' and basically everyone in the thread was confused by this. Was it so hard to say 'in internal playtests, we found that Sona's healing way too overbearing, so we're reducing it'?

And I get that, technically speaking, she was on the PBE longer than usual, but I was expecting more time, because literally every high voted post in that thread was 'I don't like this'.

Do I expect you to get her right eventually? Yes. Do I expect another situation in which you have to rework the rework like Skarner? Yes. Am I looking forward to her sucking for a month or two? Not really.

JimmynatorB3 votes

This must be very hard for you. It would be very depressing to see all of your posts downvoted into oblivion, even when you do everything you can to avoid it.

Remember downvoted posts might have some upvotes from people that actually understood what you meant and will now stop raging. It will help you. Keep talking to the players and try to explain those changes, even if it means you are going to get downvoted into oblivion.

ShadowCleave2126 votes

I fail to see the point of this comment because he says that he wants player feedback, and he'll get the same feedback he's been given before New Sona went to PBE. The extreme amount of downvotes are a sure and consistent sign that a majority of players don't agree with him. It's nothing to get depressed over.

ratcharmer4 votes

A downvote doesn't mean "we hate you" (usually).

It means "we disagree with what you are saying here"

If we're going to get this straightened out he's going to need our honest opinions on the rework.

Pangrine6 votes

Welp, now that Sona's been sent to the guillotine I guess Soraka is up next.

Calling it now, Soraka's "rework" will be stripping her of everything that makes players like me love being the healer/medic/etc.

Instead she'll get 2 nukes, a blink/dash of some sort and Wish will stay the same....except it will no longer be global, and oh yea, it no longer heals but gives a shield. For 0.5 seconds. That's based on Missing Health %. Because it will separate the good Soraka's from the great ones.

Pika3102 votes

Hey, let's not get completely crazy now...

They aren't going to give her a blink/dash, cause of the mobility creep. Everything else seems on-point.

DreamingOf Peace5 votes

How was Sona's previous iteration problematic she was quite balanced. Nami was just nerfed not because she is overpowered but because quoting a person at riot "she is starting to see a lot of play." That's because of the ADC changes and support changes you guys made, not because Nami has secretly been OP for months. So according to Riot if a champion starts to see a lot of play that automatically makes them overpowered? That's ridiculous, and the game will never be balanced with that mentality. Where are the masses of people who were calling for a Sona rework? Most people just wanted small buffs to her base armor and health so her early laning wasn't as squishy, you know how a lvl 1-2 draven can like 2-3 shot her? I can't stand when people are misleading whether intentional or unintentional it's BS.

Your team needs to hire some actual normal gamers for testing purposes, because right now it seems like there is a big disconnect. Reminds me of WoW, they just kept pushing through changes no one wanted and thought to themselves "we don't give a shit we'll attract more new players for every old player we lose." Yea see how that is turning out for them... lol.

So was that the purpose of this rework marketing Sona skins to new players, or marketing the champion itself to new players? Because otherwise this makes no sense.

Pika3102 votes

So was that the purpose of this rework marketing Sona skins to new players, or marketing the champion itself to new players? Because otherwise this makes no sense.

I for one will welcome new Sona skins, I've been asking for them for a long while now. I'll look great wearing them on ADC Sona and procing Tri-Force damage.

ratcharmer5 votes

If I may ask, at what point is it no longer "too early"?

I'm not trying to be a pessimist, but every single time a Riot employee has told us they were "actively watching or "keeping a close eye on" a recent change no action was ever taken. I'm afraid that makes it really hard for us to take any real comfort from a comment like this one. In fact I kinda feel worse about the situation now . . .

RiotFearless7 votes

So one day of play (almost two now) in a handful of regions doesn't give us accurate data. There are regions that still haven't even gotten updated to 4.13 yet. Right now, we're looking at the feedback on the forums, community sites, streams, etc. and then trying to see how she feels in the live environment, but all of that is anecdotal. After much more time, something closer to two weeks, we have a very authoritative block that will also have given people time to learn the new mechanics and decision making, find strong builds, and have opponents play against that fully understand what they are up against. It's mostly that adjustment period that we have to wait for before the data becomes useful.

ratcharmer2 votes

Thanks for responding!

In that case why do we see some instances where things start happening much sooner? Skarner rework for example.

I'm aware that one day isn't enough data, but my concern is that in the past we've seen unfavorable changes where comments like "it's too early" or "we're watching it" or "we know it's a problem and we're working on it" were used as a stalling tactic and then never followed through on.

As an example let's take a (very abbreviated) look at the timeline following the support itemization rework last pre-season:

  • The changes come out. Although the role itself is now in a healthier place, many of the champions who were traditionally played in that role are pushed out in favor of "non-traditional" supports.

  • In the immediate aftermath the community is told it's too soon to jump to any conclusions.

  • About two months later a few Reds post on the forums saying that, yeah, those changes were unintentionally harsh on the squishy utility-mage type supports.

  • Absolute silence on the issue (or any other issue for that matter) for several months.

  • About five months post-change: Riot re-confirms that the issue exists

  • About six months in: the balance team starts discussing actual fixes. They say they're going to take a multi-step approach to the problem, and the first step is going to be some itemization changes.

  • Month seven: the itemization change comes out. This doesn't seem to help the traditional squishy supports at all, but support Morgana is now a thing.

  • Month eight: Riot begins denying that the problem ever existed. All hopes of seeing it fixed are quashed.

I know you weren't personally involved (at least directly) with many of the past instances, but there is a pattern here. It's a pattern the player community does NOT like.

. . . that came out a little more negative than intended.

There actually ARE several aspects of the rework that I like a lot (ult graphic mismatch finally fixed, switching from invisible stats to one-off buffs feels more rewarding etc). Honestly my biggest gripe here is that Riot's typical response to negative feedback is NOT a good one.

JimmynatorB8 votes

First off, I think the rework has made her more fun to use overall. Her new Q and W are pretty awesome and the snuggle zone mechanic makes her a really fun support to play. Her ult keeps being that old teamfighting wonder we've all grown to like and her passive keeps being a good gameplay mechanic that makes you mix and match your abilities to get the desired effect.

Then there's her E, which I feel could be better. Maybe it's just me, but her E doesn't give me the desired feedback. It basically only gives good feedback when initiating a teamfight, meaning that while laning and disengaging the ability feels weak. The ability is very selfish if you don't tag allies with it, which is strange given her other two abilities can support your team even when you can't tag them. Given this, I'd suggest giving it a better active so that we can feel we are helping our team even when we aren't able to tag allies with it.

Her weaknesses are AOE comps and all-ins, while her strengths are giving team-wide sustain and damage that can help skew a fight heavily in favour of sona's team, and let's not forget her wonderful initiation with her ult and E. All of this gives sona fairly good weaknesses and strengths that can be balanced around if one of them is abusive for Sona or the enemies.

12tales2 votes

Not a Sona player, so sorry if this is a silly question, but why are AoE comps difficult for her? It seems like a champion with a built in Locket would excel against stuff like Ziggs.

JimmynatorB9 votes

This is new. Sona didn't have that weakness before. The mechanic that causes this weakness is her new snuggle zones, which make you have to be next to an ally to apply them. This means that AOE comps can attack you and the ones you're tagging at the same time, so you have to be careful as Sona when using those auras against champions with heavy AOE like amumu.

12tales2 votes

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks :)

Potential58 votes

Speaking of suggestions... I posted this earlier, but it got downvoted to invisibility (I think?). I've always loved Sona, and I'm eager to play her to see the rework, but I just wanted to know that the following possibility has been considered. Also if I wait, I'll probably forget to post this, heh.

Sona's basic abilities now get strengthened by ranks in Crescendo. Instead of just having more "invisible" power, I thought it would be a lot cooler for her aura ranges to increase with ranks in Crescendo (could have it in addition to the more direct numerical increase--that's up to balance).

  • Sure, it makes thematic sense for a crescendo to amplify the power of her auras, but I think it also makes sense (and physical sense, too) for her allies to be able to hear them from farther away.
  • The new aura zones necessitate a major playstyle shift for Sona, causing her to have to be more up front in fights to tag her allies. But the problem everyone has been complaining about is that she's too squishy to do this reliably later in the game (even midgame) in basically anything except a poke comp. As fights grow larger and she concurrently ranks up Crescendo, this way she gets slightly more wiggle room to manage (danger + tagging allies) vs. (safety). So, I think this change would keep Sona's potential effectiveness on par with the natural pace of the game.
  • I'm certain these range increases would have to be very small, but small radius increases should still have a very visible effect, as it's the area of the zones that's most visible, and possibly what's most important (though I guess area vs. radius being important depends on the situation).
  • Rather than thinking of it as simply making it easier for Sona to tag everyone as she ranks up ult, I would rather say this mechanic would give her a larger area of allied influence (which seems to be part of the premise of the rework), which could potentially affect team play in interesting ways in fights, etc., as Sona's allies try to interact (and have more possibilities opened up) with her zones. She of course shouldn't be allowed to sit way out of danger and tag everyone on her team, as if she had her old auras but instead with these more powerful tag effects--but again, that's numbers balance.

It might be tougher to balance than just having aura strength increases, but I think it's much more interesting and might alleviate some frustrations of her being too in danger to contribute meaningfully in larger fights.

As I said, I haven't really played her much yet, so I don't know if this is totally unreasonable. But regardless, I still think it's a cool idea, and of course I hope it is in fact reasonable.

DreamingOf Peace7 votes

I suggested this about 10 different times on the PBE boards. They didn't care then, they won't care now.

Iripley8 votes

I am a little upset and unhappy with the update and the way it was handled. This is not Sona to me, sorry.

We were told our feedback would be taken into consideration. A Lot of the feedback was negative and not much changed even with negative feedback. Except Riot ceased for the most part communicating on the Sona Rework

I am not trying to be rude but abandoning the boards and not commenting or talking to the community even if people were being rude or mean or whatever, in my opinion is tacky and a bit immature. At least a comment like "hey we have reviewed the feedback up to whateverdate and are working hard on the update more to come" but to abandon most/all communication because your upset by trolls is unprofessional again imo.

Especially after the community was told that things would be different with the Sona rework and that our input would be taken into consideration and that she would have a longer period of testing to ensure the rework went well.

My take on this is that overall Sona was reworked to make her more Flashy. I will take real power over perceived power any day thanks

The rework is mediocre at best and the way it was managed in regards to the community was abysmal.

It Is I Emoto7 votes

I'm kind of afraid of her update, because the snuggle zone mechanics are.. really dangerous. Sona can easily be caught out of position and she get bursted down. Riot thought about that problem (of course) and gave her a higher health scaling, and that's of course a good thing. otherwise, I feel like it'd be better to make her w shield last 3 seconds instead of 1.5. The shield duration is so low, that it probably won't tank any damage off if someone get focused. And her new e is.. pretty selfish, since sona benifits the most out of. I remember that her pre-rework e also gave a speed buff to minions, now it doesn't anymore. I really liked it that it gaves actually a speed buff to minions, so she can help them coming faster in lane.

But They gave sona more strenghts. Her Q is now a inbuilt lichbane, her w gives a shield that scales with ap, and her ult empowers those abilities as well. the only issue for me is her e. How are you supposed to help teammates that are like really behind? going back to them, just to give them a speed boost is really risky.

And to keep calling her abilities "songs".. well, they must be the fastest songs ever.

I'd be happy if they gave her reworked e also the active of her old e. It would be really helpful.

I usually build Sona as AP support, I know it's kind of dumb, but it's really helpful. 40% cdr, a Archangels Staff, A sightstone, Frostqueens Claim, Athenes Grail, and a Deathcap, those were usually my items that I picked up. My heals were incredible strong, the speed buff is extreme and my powerchord damage did hit the sky. with the upcoming Sona changes, I might be more risky with going AP support, but it might be really strong. Depends on the player of course.

Sincere

JimmynatorB7 votes

For those asking for numbers and claiming she got nerfed:

Old Q damage + 1 auto:

  • Level 1: 52 + 50% AP + base AD + 4 AD
  • Level 9: 260 + 50% AP + base AD + 20 AD
  • Level 18: 260 + 50% AP + base AD + 20 AD

Rework Q damage + 1 auto: (14% more CD)

  • Level 1: 80 + 75% AP + base AD
  • Level 9: 290 + 75% AP + base AD
  • Level 18: 310 + 75% AP + base AD

Old W heal:

  • Level 1 (50% health): 40 + 25% AP (+ 6 armor/MR)
  • Level 9 (50% health): 55 + 25% AP (+ 7 armor/MR)
  • Level 18 (50% health): 100 + 25% AP (+ 10 armor/MR)

Rework W heal: (43% more CD)

  • Level 1 (50% health): 30 + 30% AP (+ 40 + 20% AP shield)
  • Level 9 (50% health): 60 + 30% AP (+ 70 + 20% AP shield)
  • Level 18 (50% health): 150 + 30% AP (+ 150 + 20% AP shield)

Old E buff:

  • Level 1: 4% + 2% AP + 4 flat MS
  • Level 9: 4% + 2% AP + 4 flat MS
  • Level 18: 12% + 2% AP + 20 flat MS

Rework E buff: (71% more CD)

  • Level 1: 10% + 7.5% AP
  • Level 9: 12% + 7.5% AP
  • Level 18: 20% + 7.5% AP
5cardstud4 votes

Thank you JimmynatorB!

I don't know how many other players thought the same as me when first reading this rework: That Riot took away Sona's permanent auras w/o tweaking her abilities' underlying numbers. That was really scary and depressing!

I understand that Riot might not want to show figures on the rework page, but then they weren't in the patch notes either... and thus it seemed a colossal nerf.

I feel Riot could have prevented this misunderstanding even w/o including numbers by adding a line like "Oh, and Sona's abilities have new stats to go along with these changes" somewhere on the champion update or patch pages.

RiotFearless12 votes

We left numbers off the rework page due to trying to make the page more readable. My fear was that the very long list of changes (given to many elements being added and subtracted) would cause people to tune out. I pushed for that, and I totally own up to that being the wrong call.

Jace778 votes

how about in the future leave the numbers off the page but have a link that directs people somewhere the numbers are

that way the page you want the most people to see isn't cluttered but those of us who want numbers have an official place to find them

RiotFearless10 votes

This is one of the ideas we've been discussing for future update articles. We'll like try something very much like this.

VapidActions6 votes

I've been playing a lot of games trying to get the hang of the new Sona, and what I've found is she gets horribly abused in lane (currently gold), and seems unable to trade effectively any more. So I did a quick bit of mathyness to see if there was any truth to it. For the comparison i matched Sona against Janna, another support I would place in the same tier as the old Sona. Make of the numbers what you will, But I always saw Sona as being successful, winning lanes from heavy poke and harrass. These numbers don't appear to support that anymore. Please note this does not take into consideration runes, masteries, items, or other players as they could be perfectly balanced, or be too chaotic. This is a straight up trade, where Sona maximizes effectiveness of new Q. Again not PERFECT math. make of it what you will.

** Janna: ** E: shield provides 80 +.7AP absorbtion, and 14 + .1AP AD at level 1. Effective health for trade: 436(80 absorb) Physical from 2 autos *2: 109 (Shield does not break on sona's first auto, but with a slightly faster AS breaks on second auto before Janna's second auto Losing AD for second auto.) No magic damage dealt Mana spent: 70 (23% of max pool. 10 seconds to recoup) Armor: 13 (88.5% damage from physical) MR: 30 (76.9% damage from magic) Effective damage done to Sona after resistances, 97 Sona is left with 283 hp, or 74.4% taking 22 seconds to recover.

** Sona:** Q: No Defensive bonus Effective health for trade: 380 Physical damage from 2 autos: 94 Magic Damage from first empowered auto: 40 Magic Damage from ability: 40 Effective damage: 174 Mana Spent: 45 (17% of max pool. 6.4 seconds to recoup) Armor: 12 (89.3% damage from physical) MR: 30 (76.9% damage from magic) Effective Damage done to Janna after resistances: (61.52 magic + 83.19 = 135 damage dealt. First cast+auto does 72 damage, not quite enough to break janna's shield.) Janna is left with 301 HP, or 84.5%, taking 12 seconds to recover to full.

Remlap12235 votes

The only time I really played Sona was as a non-meta mid laner for the most part. I could not get over the fact that laning against two people could melt Sona easier than anyone else in the game. So i stuck to mid lane as a poke mage with high sustain. It works decently and it negates the issue. As for Sona as a support, when playing against a team composition that wasn't particularly agressive, I had great success. Unfortunatley the meta is firmly stuck in Leona, Braum, Thresh, and Morgana, which go for huge damage to lock down and take out ADCs in one play, something that Sona is hard countered by. But despite this, Sona had a very firm presence in lane, and her buffs to her allies were still substantial with the auras despite the nerfs.

What Riot did with the rework pigeonholed Sona as a homogeneous textbook support without any buffs for tradeoff.

The only thing I like about this kit is the idea of tagging allies with abilities for bonus effects. Everything else is the exact opposite of what needed to be done. This rework makes Sona have to get on the front lines to do anything useful, which as squishy as she is (and with no ungodly buffs to her defenses to compensate for this) she might as well be Karthus with boobs. She literally might as well get a passive buff her dying, because she'll do it a lot the way this kit is meant to be played.

The removal of permanent Auras might have been good if she was meant to be played as an AP mid like I play her, but it contradicts her whole attrition aura support aspect. You're putting her in a position that detriments both her and her ADC.

I know that you have said that you aren't supposed to attack Riot, but sometimes harsh criticism is necessary. This rework is literally the worst one I've encountered. If I could pull only one rework back out of any of the reworks that have been done in League's history, this would be the one. And I'm pleading with Riot to undo the rework in patch 4.14. This is not Olafing, this is Urgoting. Sona will have a win rate and play rate around Urgot and Yorick if you do not change this next patch. I guarantee it. I don't think Sona needs a rework, but if you are dead-set on giving Sona a rework anyways, it's time to follow the PBE players advice and scrap this. Take it back to square one and start fresh. And like I said, I'm not attacking anyone, but this needs to be said. Start fresh and put this rework behind as a neat idea that just didn't pan out and start over. It happens. I make champion concepts all the time, but I know when to scrap a concept that doesn't work after fan criticism. It happens. We're only human.

XXnIE66Rui5 votes

I translated a bunch of feedback from Brazilian players into English over here:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay/pokgR7yJ-sona-rework-feedback-from-br-players

That said, my personal, current thoughts on her:

  • She is extremely squishy early game. I don't personally feel comfortable poking with her early on unless I'm sure the opponents aren't going to react (e.g. aren't very skillful, aren't playing aggressive supports, can't keep me in place the second I step up to poke). She dies in very few hits.
  • With how squishy she is, I feel like taking W first is the only viable option for survival in case she gets caught level 1, but the heal still feels extremely insignificant (even with the shield).
  • I don't feel like I have much impact in lane early on. The Q buff feels clunky because I'm likely to steal CS with the two bolts.
  • I really wish the Q buff would work on towers, but I can see why it doesn't, since it gives a ton of siege potential later on when you can Q your whole team to take down a tower that much faster.
  • Sona really starts to pick up the pace when she gets her ult - not only because of the ult itself, but also because of the buffs it gives to her skills (in particular her E).
  • Sona REALLY starts to pick up the pace around when her ult is rank 2 and she has a couple of items.
  • Her late game feels considerably more powerful.
  • W feels very bad to use before late game. A small heal and a small shield are much harder to notice/less satisfying than just a big shield or a big heal. The effects are also conflicting - do I use my heal (with high mana costs) to keep my teammate topped off, or do I save it for when a shield is needed? The fact there's two of those combined in one makes the skill most useful only for a very specific situation - a trade where the teammate I'm trying to use the skill on has already taken damage. A pure heal is useful in any situation where a person has taken damage, and a pure shield is useful in any situation where a person is about to take damage. The shield is far too small (at least early on) to use with the teammate(s) at full health - it's a lot of mana for a tiny shield. It feels... restrictive, unlike other shields with extra effects which feel more comfortable to use even if you don't need the additional effect (e.g. Karma, Janna). Likewise, other heals with extra effects feel more comfortable to use even if you don't need the additional effect due to how Sona's heal scales.

I think her very very weak early game could use some tweaks. Largely because she is so risky to use that she can become a null presence in lane, or be kill fodder and cause her opponents to snowball. My only qualm with a support having a very weak early game is the fact that typically, ADCs do, too, which can really hurt the lane as a whole early on. Support is typically the strong character who babysits the ADC while they're still weak, and Sona is far too squishy without any hard CC to compensate to be able to really babysit her ADC early on. Her sustain potential also took quite a hit.

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