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Please read if you think Tristana and Miss Fortune need a small buff.

tpnm··46 votes·3,291 views

Well.. I wouldn't use "small" because I think it improves them a lot. . . For Miss Fortune, reduce the Q delay according to MF's attack speed. (just like you have just applied on Trist' E in the last patch. (I hope she gains 5 additional movement speed as well as little slow effect on her R. For ex, 4% slow per bullets, lasts for 1sec.)

This wouldn't increase her power level rapidly but I believe it would definitely improve her kiting ability and power level properly. . . For Tristana, increase the cooldown of Q to 22/21.5/21/20.5/20; then, you double the CDR effect of Q on itself. You probably need to rollback the recent buff on E. (scaling 30% by hit to 25%)

According to LOLwikia, tooltip of the Q is currently, "PASSIVE: Each basic attack against a target marked with Explosive Charge.png Explosive Charge reduces the cooldown of Rapid Fire by 1 second. ACTIVE: Increases Tristana's attack speed for 5 seconds. Basic attacks while Rapid Fire is active reduce the cooldown of Explosive Charge.png Explosive Charge by 0.5 seconds (doubled against champions)."

Applying my suggestion, the passive effect would reduce the cooldown of Q by 2 sec and the cooldown of E by 0.5 sec (1 sec against champs).

It would not significantly change her power level in early lane phase, but it would boost her power level in mid-late phase and make her hyper carry again with constant DMG dealing. You may reduce DMG of E or AS of Q appropriately. (I hope her passive increases her range by 8, currently 7.) . . Sorry for my interference in your consideration. Excuse me,a MF Trist lover. Thank you!!

33 Comments

djjomon10 votes

I like the MF change. It's different than most people want, the passive not being broken by minions. (Which I like too). But her Q has a lot of power to it. The bread-and-butter of her burst, so to say. Buffing it would definitely be a great way to strengthen her kit.

Though, I'm hesitant on further Trist buffs. She seems to need them, agreed. She very well may. But she's seen some competitive play. I can't help but wonder if she'll prove to be stronger than people think in the next few weeks. Not sure if I like the idea of increasing her E CD, as it would make her laning/early trading even weaker. But, in return for mid-late and hyper carry power, I'd be okay with it.

jDVL20eCYs

meh you wrong they should just bugg her ap ratio on q make her ult do magic damage and give her W an ap ratio on and increase ap ratio on e to 100% she is an ap champ, her kit scream ap. why you never see her as adc cause she suck at it. so remove the ad ratios or have them there as a scar of a horrible torture. Mage fortune is the real deal.

djjomon3 votes

If you're gonna troll, at least be good at it

jDVL20eCYs1 votes

I'm seriouse i play ad mf once this season almsot carried 4 vs 5 since we and ark but its hard for her late late game. but i enjoy play ap miss and i think that suit her really well. if riot ruin my ap eve and went her to build some disgusting tank build, then they can at east give me ap mf. since I'm already is best ap corcki tune. won lane 1 vs 1 at top vs at the time broken renkton when there was no luden echo. and my ap ez and ap varus is legendary. even applied ap lucain do some success^^tosn of damage acutully. ap ash in urn was so funny. and i played two game with ap mid went first game 12/1 /16 second 3/1/4 in diamond 2 it was. the first game was much better. hit perfects url. the second game was a bit messy. but i mange to get 180 cs as gp vs oriana at 20 min who had 130. lets not talk about ap xin zhao. man he really works and so fun. oo i remember when i won 3 games in row with ap cait top. remember when there enemy darisu got flamed for losing to ap cait^^that nashor > mpen boots > laundry > lichbane > void staff > deatcap builds was so broken. never tried ap sivir maybe should do its probably bad^^only her q and no synergy with lichen and nahsor like lucian.

djjomon1 votes

I'm not saying AP MF is bad. I know people played it pre rework, and demanded it back after. It's playable, but not optimal. Troll builds can work if one can execute them. I'll never say otherwise.

atomicwit5 votes

Tristana needs her old-range back. In most games she'll never even get to level 18 but she needs an identity.

She doesn't have the best burst (Graves). She's not the best duelist/single-target damage (Vayne). She's not the best tank-shredder (Kog'Maw/Vayne). She's not the highest range (Cait, Kog with W). She isn't the most mobile (Ezreal). She doesn't have the best poke (Kog'Maw, Ashe, Corki). She doesn't have the strongest mid-game (Corki). She doesn't have the best teamfighting (Twitch/Jinx). And so on...

The only thing she does possibly better is take turrets but Jinx is almost equally fast while getting a speed-boost after and just a far stronger kit overall. TF ADCs like Ezreal are also very good at it. You also don't normally want the ADC solo-pushing that much. Usually, turrets are taken as a team once a fight is won or the opponents are out-rotated.

tpnm1 votes

ADC w/ 703 range would be great; however, I don't think Riot would restore her passive. Hopefully, 686. (8/lv) I added it.

atomicwit1 votes

Honestly, even going from 669 to 686 would be enough to appease me (for my Gold level play). She isn't THAT far from being competitive and while that may not entice pros to pick her over others, it would at least give her a tiny bit better late game. It's also such a nicer number! :D 8 is supposed to be a lucky number in Asian cultures so I liek 8/lvl. 686 is also pretty for being symmetrical. :P

Sorion4 votes

I disagree on Tristana, in fact she even received a small buff this patch on the projectile speed of her E which lets her output high DPS faster and quicker without wasted AA's waiting for the E to land. Personally, I think Tristana is in a good spot and one of the stronger ADCs this season. Kalista is just at the top right now due to her excessive kiting ability of melee champions. Having Tristana's Q be down any lower than it is now would be a little too big since she already does massive damage at a massive range, on top of her great kit with the possibility of multiple engages and escapes. If I anything, I'd like to see a small AD scaling on her ultimate.

Miss Fortune sure. She does need help. Let's start with her passive being broken by minions, hilarious. On top of this, your change can also be added and nobody would have a problem. She's just that behind other ADCs at the moment. The lack of an escape outside of her passive's movement speed and maybe getting away with slowing someone with Bullet Rain puts her in a bad spot, and at least Ashe has much more CC than Miss Fortune to bring to the team.

I'm pretty sure Miss Fortune is already on the chopping block for a small kit rework in the future though.

disregardable9 votes

I think Tristana is in a good spot and one of the stronger ADCs this season.

Well, you clearly don't main Marksmen.

She has a sub-50% win rate in every single bottom lane matchup and a 46% winrate over all. She even loses to Varus. This buff wouldn't even help her be better. The key to helping Tristana is making her power less conditional, not moreso. She needs the changes made to her passive completely reverted.

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=bottom-matchup&range=monthly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=ranked

http://www.lolking.net/champions/

VDc0zCqe0w2 votes

{quoted} I'm pretty sure Miss Fortune is already on the chopping block for a small kit rework in the future though.

allright but this time let's give her a good one ok?

last rework was uber trash and the only thing that was good about it were the straight number buffs (AKA everything that was not being reworked)

i have no idea on who the hell thought that making MF some sort of Vayne with useless W stacks on ult was a good idea, while removing most of the AOE damage from it at the same time

Ashe is a good rework (aka number buffs + some very small tweaks)

tpnm6 votes

Since the S1, I have played and seen how they balance but the problem on MF's passive doesn't seem to be considered at all. So I stopped expecting that kind of buff. :( But it would be really cool! To kite, dodge enemy shots!!

Back to Trist, I think her strongest ability is her range. Actually, her DPS is significantly lower than Kog, Vayne and MF. For sure, I believe Trist doesn't have to have that high DPS as well as high nuking damage like Corki.

The improvements on CDR effect, instead of increasing DMG or DMG scaling, would make Trist's DMG more stable over time. So she would benefit from it in long-lasting battle (probably in late phase.) and have her own identity.

By the way, I would welcome necessary DMG reduce to get the CDR benefit, as I mentioned in the original post.

You may reduce DMG of E or AS of Q appropriately.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

{quoted}

I disagree on Tristana, in fact she even received a small buff this patch on the projectile speed of her E which lets her output high DPS faster and quicker without wasted AA's waiting for the E to land. Personally, I think Tristana is in a good spot and one of the stronger ADCs this season. Kalista is just at the top right now due to her excessive kiting ability of melee champions. Having Tristana's Q be down any lower than it is now would be a little too big since she already does massive damage at a massive range, on top of her great kit with the possibility of multiple engages and escapes. If I anything, I'd like to see a small AD scaling on her ultimate.

Miss Fortune sure. She does need help. Let's start with her passive being broken by minions, hilarious. On top of this, your change can also be added and nobody would have a problem. She's just that behind other ADCs at the moment. The lack of an escape outside of her passive's movement speed and maybe getting away with slowing someone with Bullet Rain puts her in a bad spot, and at least Ashe has much more CC than Miss Fortune to bring to the team.

I'm pretty sure Miss Fortune is already on the chopping block for a small kit rework in the future though.

Miss Fortune has no self peal/escape but if you do give her a good team with just even average engages, nothing #lcsbigplay like, she will do much more than any other ADC can with maybe the exception of a late game Twitch. Don't underestimate MF, she definitely has damage. She has the highest level 1 damage of any ADC due to her Q resetting auto attacks which is pretty insane for it's damage and low cooldown, all at level 1. Her entire role is a hardcore lane bully and teamfighter. Her Q and E lets her lane bully very well, and her passive makes her the first person in and out of lane and let's her roam as if she already has boots of mobility at level 1 on top of her base movement speed.

Small buffs to Miss Fortune I can see coming, but really she does a LOT of damage her entire kit is based around it and if her damage was buffed even more, I fear it would make her a toxic champion and an overpowered lane bully. Her Q resets/damage/doubled poke, her W giving passively 10 more AD at level 1, her Impure Shots, her zoning abilities. She's a strong ADC, but just imagine if she had a direct escape or self peal. She would be overpowered and it would be hard to deny that she would, in that case, need nerfs.

Also I'd like to point out Miss Fortune has some of the highest ADC win rates in Ranked (at the moment as I write this, it's lower than normal) and she also has some of the highest pentakill rates.

NorthernDruid4 votes

Tristana would be really fine if they gave her back her range.

Malix Farwin3 votes

{quoted}

Tristana would be really fine if they gave her back her range.

i feel like they balanced tristana around her late game range and then took away her range so even in late game she falls short to every adc. Would be one thing if she was the worst late game adc(which would still be bad bcz that is basically all she is) but she is only second to worst late game then MF.

Chibi Templar2 votes

{quoted}

Tristana would be really fine if they gave her back her range.

Its her abysmal attack speed, even with Rapid Fire that should be addressed first.

Durzaka3 votes

Tristana needs her fucking Attack Speed reverted to before she was reworked.

With her absolutely useless "increase range" passive that barely puts her ahead of Caitlyn at level 18 (kogmaw and jinx get there by level 9) there is literally no reason to pick her anymore.

You know something is fucked up when she is picked competitive and the shoutcasters say she isnt known for her late game scaling.

lDontLiftIcarry2 votes

I think trist is fine Her E is shit now but its good once you hit 13 at demolishing towers.

riot gutted MF back in s2/s3 and have continued gutting her since then.

She should be reverted to release base damage/scaling.

Riot won't do that because riot's never wrong.

48983507DEL12 votes

I think Tristana is fine now, she's not as terrible as everyone assumes. Miss Fortune, on the other hand, is just poorly designed; she has an ability that does magic damage but scales with AP and vice versa, most of her abilities having an AP scaling, which means building AD on her is for the most part counter-intuitive, since she is, for the most part, an ability reliant carry. She is barely a lane bully anymore and doesn't compare to Graves or Caitlyn in terms of early game power, her mid game is her only real shining point, which she is garbage in if she isn't snowballing off of winning lane (like most ADCs), and her late game is just garbage due to her ultimate doing no damage, having no decent form of siege or mobility, and having no form of self-peel/crowd control. Literally every other ADC in the game either has reliable crowd control, a repositioning ability, or both, while she gets essentially a worse form of mobility boots that is completely outdated. Miss Fortune needs a complete rework to even be considered viable.

atomicwit1 votes

MF is really underrated. She actually has a 51.14% winrate even in Plat+ on 5.9. Compare this to Tristana's 49.25%. 2% is a pretty meaningful difference when everything is so close to 50%. MF has a really strong teamfight (auto-win if you get a good ult.) and mid-game.

Her lane phase is also dominant vs most ADCs. She doesn't scale great and is rather vulnerable but she's in a decent place if you play to her strengths. I don't think she needs more than a small tweak to her passive to make it better late game.

Rootworth1 votes

Nah.

BestTristMyHaus1 votes

You want to increase Tristana's cooldowns to give her an improvement IF she hits all 4 shots, but WORSE cd if she doesn't hit ANY and throwing in a reversion in the power on that thing? As a Tristana main, I'd say NO THANKS. My PREFERENCE is for her to have her full passive back so she can trade well in the tank meta, but I'd take a simple restoration of her base AS scaling OR a simple boost to her starting AS at this point. That'd at LEAST help her not be at a serious DISadvantage for early cs.

tpnm1 votes

Assuming Q lv1 and E lv1, it would be the same as before if Trist hits TWICE.

Yes, it would be worse if you fail to hit the target twice. Do you still think it could be a disadvantage?

By the way, I like your way as well; however, I think Riot will not rollback in that way. :(

BestTristMyHaus1 votes

From my experience, in laning phase its very common for the opponent to flee once the E hits them unless you're at a large disadvantage from the start. So either you risk death to try to improve cooldown or you get one MAYBE two pops in before they're out of range (because of Tristana's currently semi-pathetic range). So yes, I think you'll average out to a net disadvantage in the early game, and frankly, I wouldn't trade the extra second or 2 of cooldown in late game for it considering the risk she gets from shorter range. The only time it would really "matter" (and really, the only time she's "even") is mid-game when she's pushing towers, but just to point something out, she's gonna "naturally" get screwed with longer cooldowns once she hits inhibs (since you can't throw E on inhibs like you can on towers). So basically Once you hit the first round of base turrets, you can tear through that, but if you use your Q to start tearing down the inhib, then you get trouble once the defenders show up and your Q is on cooldown.

Remlap12231 votes

For MF, they just need to remove the minion passive knockoff at level 11 and have her E proc impure shots instead of the damage it currently has going for it.

Tristana just needs her attack speed brought back to the level it was before her rework (2.5%). Her Q can be nerfed accordingly if she proves oppressive, but I doubt that will happen. She honestly just needs to not be so reliant on her Q in teamfights, and have her Q just be used as an edge in a duel. Hell, stick a mana cost back onto it and keep the values the same if the 2.5% attack speed per level proves to be too oppressive.

Flemman1 votes

I just want mf to be able to walk/rotate slowly during her ult :p

A Miss Fortune1 votes

As a Miss Fortune main, I agree she needs a small buff.

Don't get me wrong, she IS a top tier ADC. She maintains some of the highest, consistent ADC win rates and some of the highest pentakill rates in the game.

The thing is, that Riot gave her a lot of room to counterplay. This being so she isn't overpowered. Just imagine if Miss Fortune's Q and E didn't have cast times, her ultimate couldn't be interrupted while channeling, her passive couldn't be shutdown. She's a really, really powerful ADC but to limit her on dominating the game and becoming the definition of overpowered and broken, they added counterplay such as cast times to her Q and E, made her Ultiamte very easy to interrupt/imoblize her, and make her passive easy to break.

While adding this counterplay to Miss Fortune definitely prevented her from being Kalista-tier-overpowered (just imagine chasing an MF while her passive was up and her E had no channel time.) I think they should also take away some of it. She might become slightly stronger but I think she also needs to be given some independence as she can be very team reliant, but if your team gives you just an okay engage, you can destroy the entire enemy team pretty fast.

Speeding Bus1 votes

{quoted}

As a Miss Fortune main, I agree she needs a small buff.

Don't get me wrong, she IS a top tier ADC. She maintains some of the highest, consistent ADC win rates and some of the highest pentakill rates in the game.

The thing is, that Riot gave her a lot of room to counterplay. This being so she isn't overpowered. Just imagine if Miss Fortune's Q and E didn't have cast times, her ultimate couldn't be interrupted while channeling, her passive couldn't be shutdown. She's a really, really powerful ADC but to limit her on dominating the game and becoming the definition of overpowered and broken, they added counterplay such as cast times to her Q and E, made her Ultiamte very easy to interrupt/imoblize her, and make her passive easy to break.

While adding this counterplay to Miss Fortune definitely prevented her from being Kalista-tier-overpowered (just imagine chasing an MF while her passive was up and her E had no channel time.) I think they should also take away some of it. She might become slightly stronger but I think she also needs to be given some independence as she can be very team reliant, but if your team gives you just an okay engage, you can destroy the entire enemy team pretty fast.

Win Rates don't prove whether a champion is strong or not and its hardly the case with MF because the only people who main her are pro's at playing MF so there's no bad players to lower her win rate. MF kit is hilarious outdated and she definitely needs a total rework.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Speeding Bus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TPiL9PXZ,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2015-05-17T23:03:51.603+0000)

Win Rates don't prove whether a champion is strong or not and its hardly the case with MF because the only people who main her are pro's at playing MF so there's no bad players to lower her win rate. MF kit is hilarious outdated and she definitely needs a total rework.

You totally missed the point, her win rate and pentakill rate was just an example of how she is good, I think going by a champion's need for reworks, buffs, or nerfs according to winrates is terrible, but when you maintain an average 51% - 52% win rates for weeks at a time, then the champion obviously is decent. The thing is that Miss Fortune has the win rate and yeah it may spike up and down at times, but it rarely changes for more than a few days.

Miss Fortune's godlike laning abilities, teamfighting abilities, and early - mid massive damage output makes up for her fall off late game where even then she's still pretty good. Sure her kit isn't the most unique and updated, but it works. She doesn't need a rework if she's perfectly fine, aside from her being more team dependent than other ADCs. Despite this, when she has even just an average, decent, fairly okay team. Nothing horrible or anything LCS-like, she can do far more than what Jinx, Graves, Quinn, Ashe, etc could do because of her kit.

I also would like for you to know that her laning ability is stronger than even Caitlyn, Jinx, and Graves. She outdamages all of them, her poke from her Q is hard to deal with, and she has higher AD than all of them because of her W passive.

Anyways, whether you choose to believe Miss Fortune is good or not is totally up to you. In short, Miss Fortune has room for counterplay but she counters most ADCs/Supports until mid or late game, she has easily the strongest early game of any ADC up until level 6, and has almost inarguably the best teamfighting of any ADC. She falls off late game in comparison but still can carry games really hard.

Stonington1 votes

Tristana yes. She sucks. MF no. She has a niche and she's fine. She has a high win rate in all elos.

FantasySniper1 votes

Didn't need to read. They need some help and are barely worth picking.

If only people stopped asking for AP buffs instead of serious ones.

Immortal Strife1 votes

I've never liked the cast time on Miss Fortune's E "make it rain", or her passive "strut" being useless if a minion tags her an AA.

Widder881 votes

Miss Fortune is a hybrid champion. Give her a second passive that she gains 10% of her AP as AD and 20% of her Bonus-AD as AP.

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