Ideas for underused support/enchanter item reworks

Steelflame·4/7/2017, 12:48:32 PM·1 votes·398 views

Lets face it, while enchanter supports are stronger than before, they still have issues, primarily in a lack of viable choices for itemization with no really good itemization. Your choices come down to gold gen item, sightstone, redemption, locket. The first two possibly ending up as a single slot. Everything after that is exceptionally meh. We need more unique power chunks like Redemption, not less, and better yet, thanks to the almost entirely selfless nature of these items it'll be hard to abuse them when not playing support.

Many of the rest either have core concept issues, terrible stat distributions, or don't give stats that ultimately are useful for most supports for some reason or another, often being problems of split identity or an overabundance of CDR/mana regen.

Zeke's Harbringeritem 3050 . It's just got issues everywhere. The buff is hard to stack up for a time you want it, most of the stats of the buff are wasted, with practically no one ever being able to use everything it has, and it's awkward stats on the item itself means practically no one really wants to build it. There is a bonus idea for Knight's Vow here as well. Long list of things here to change though for this line of items.

Rework idea : Introduce a new component item building from cloth armor and ruby crystal (Lets call it Squire's Gift) that gives 25 armor and 200 HP. Unique Active : Squire's Aid - Bind to a target and you get 2 gold for every CS they obtain while you are in the area, and you heal for 6% of the damage they do to champions (3% if you are ranged). It gives a bit more durability in lane for supports and faintly increases gold gen of the support. Notably it does nearly nothing when alone, making it pretty much exclusively a support buy by default.

From this item, you can craft Zeke's Harbringeritem 3050 (AD focused link) by combining Squire's Gift with a Forbidden Idol, resulting in an item with 30 armor, 250 HP, 10% CDR, and 10% increased heal and shield power, and Unique active : Squire's Aid, keeps the original boost from Squires Aid, and Unique Passive : Herald of War : When you reach 100 stacks with the person you bound with Squire's Aid (Stacked by staying around eachother, casting abilities, or auto attacking) makes the current buff for Zeke's triggered with these "New" stats. 1. Grants the target 50% crit chance when the buff triggers, and overcapped crit chance is converted into crit damage. 2. Any heal or shield you place on the target gets buffed by an extra 10%. 3. Doubles the potency of the healing from the Squire's Aid. Stacks decay after 4 seconds of leaving the binding radius at 20 stacks per second. This gets rid of the worst aspect of Zeke's, in that some of the crit chance often gets wasted late game as the AD carries build 3 crit items+, by allowing it to convert into crit damage, and that the binding can sometimes the stacks can get dropped a bit too easily. If you micro your positioning you can hold yourself around 50-80 stacks, but it isn't easy, and may end up putting you out of position to help your carry, so it's a risk.

Knight's Vow change - Replace the Chainmail with Squire's Gift. Add the 2 gold per bonded CS mechanic, and change unique active name to Squire's Aid. Adjust price/stats as needed. Done. It's pretty much just the same item, just with the new Squire's Gift as a component item.

Notably with the change to Zeke's, we lost a magic amplification support item. Lets fix that.

New item : Mage's Apprentice. Built from Squire's Gift and Fiendish Codex. 25 armor, 250 HP, 40 AP, 10% CDR. Unique active : Squire's Aid (Same as original bonus from the first Squire's Gift item). Unique Passive : Apprentice's Aid - At 100 stacks (generated by attacking, casting spells, and just staying close to eachother, same as item 3050 ), grants both the mage and the apprentice +25% AP, of which is the highest value between either granted to both (Meaning that 1k AP Veigar gains 250 AP, and the 200 AP Nami would also get the 250 AP putting her at 450 AP) for 8 seconds. Stacks decay at 20 stacks per second when out of range of bonded player. Main point is giving us the AP user boosting component of the original Zeke's Herald to a new item so that it isn't just flat out lost upon the rework for those cases where you might want to bind to a mage botlane or potentially midgame (Looking at you Ziggs "ADC").

Athene's Unholy Grailitem 3174 : Primarily has an issue of overstacked CDR IMO, and being a healing amping item that doesn't come from the Forbidden Idol line meaning you can't get the shield/heal boost. Practically any support that would even consider it will so heavily overcap CDR with it as to instantly say "Na, not worth." when most of it's power combat power outside of CDR is... 40 AP and 30 MR? Ehh...

Rework idea : Scrap Chaliceitem 3028 line entirely. Lets face it, it's got no place in the game today, and many of the supports who might consider it would instantly remember "Oh yea, my base HP/5 is literal ass, amplifying that by my mana regen is nearly worthless when I could just get something to make me have a stronger self heal". Replace Chalice with Forbidden Idol. Harmony Passive is converted into unique passive : Overflowing Cup - Overcapped CDR is converted into shield/heal power. Boom. Now the terrible problem of enchanters of heavily overcapping CDR actually has an outlet to turn it into a useful stat. Remove MR from the completed Grail (As we no longer have chalice granting it).

What about Micheal's Crucibleitem 3222 you ask? Change the Chalice in the recipe to QSSitem 3140 , adjust mana regen down, and allow self cast or allied cast (with Allied cast also cleansing self). Can only be self-cast if hard CCed by an effect that would normally disable cast. Still can't cleanse allied suppression, although can self-cleanse it. Notably this gives mages a potential line to build QSS into, sure it grants no AP, but they at least get MR, mana regen, and CDR and the QSS active that they distinctly wanted in the first place, and maybe the heal/shield booster. Grant Unique Passive : Overflowing Cup from Grail rework to this as well.

Ardent Censoritem 3504 : Insanely minor boost, make the health steal from the granted buff scale with heal/shield power. Otherwise leave alone, I don't think it needs any real buffs.

Ohmwreckeritem 3056 : Allow active to be cast on allied towers. If cast on allied tower, increases it's current HP to 25% max hp if below that, and makes it invulnerable to damage and doubles shot speed for 8 seconds. Minion gold from tower kills is granted to user. The same tower can't be buffed again for 2 minutes (same as cooldown of item, prevents stacked cheese blocking a push for 40 seconds). Tower disable duration buffed to 5 seconds (from 3), with the same clause of can't be debuffed again for 2 minutes. If cast on an enemy tower below 25% health, instantly destroys the tower. Point Runner unique passive is granted to all allies near a tower affected by the active.

It's a lot of changes to the active of the item, but hell, it needs a ton. It's literal garbage right now, and if we gotta tune it back later then fine. But right now the item may as well not exist. Lets buff the thing to hell and tune it back and see if it gets the ZZ'rot treatment where it went from unused to OP to fairly well balanced on usage. With the fact that each tower has a 2 minute cooldown on being modified by it, it prevents stack cases from either side (Unlike ZZ'rot where stacking it only made it better), so that should still keep it's usage at acceptable levels without it warping games too much even if we do make it overpowered.

Hopefully, from the massive list of changes here, we could see an actual real change in support itemization throughout the game, with solid use cases for almost all of the support items, from Zeke's being the god of supporting/amplifying your ADC itemization, Mage's Apprentice giving you an avenue to amplifying mages in an appreciable way, Grail not being a trap outside of ARAM where you pretty much always result in seriously overcapping CDR and ultimately wrecking your gold efficiency (which is such a critical issue for support itemization), faint QSS/Michael's buffs giving it a more access-able usage, and making Ohmwrecker possibly viable. Maybe. Hopefully. If this can't do it, nothing can, and we might as well delete the item and finally just say that we gave it our all to make it viable.

3 Comments

ChaddyFantome4/7/2017, 12:51:37 PM1 votes

Unique Active : Squire's Aid - Bind to a target and you get 2 gold for every CS they obtain while you are in the area, and you heal for 6% of the damage they do to champions (3% if you are ranged). It gives a bit more durability in lane for supports and faintly increases gold gen of the support. Notably it does nearly nothing when alone, making it pretty much exclusively a support buy by default.

This would make the item pretty much mandatory on supports and abusable by non supports mid to late game. It also overlaps too much with item 3301 line.

From this item, you can craft Zeke's Harbringer (AD focused link) by combining Squire's Gift with a Forbidden Idol,

Zeke's would be pretty freaking broken. It is too perfectly optimized and overbearing with stats on it that are good seemingly for no other reason than to just give more good stats, while also having no clear niche. Ideally, Zeke's should be the avenue for Supports to get more AP heavy/utility Scaling option as opposed to more Healing/Shielding Power that we already have plenty of.

converted into crit damage. 2. Any heal or shield you place on the target gets buffed by an extra 10%. 3. Doubles the potency of the healing from the Squire's Aid. Stacks decay after 4 seconds of leaving the binding radius at 20 stacks per second. This gets rid of the worst aspect of Zeke's, in that some of the crit chance often gets wasted late game as the AD carries build 3 crit items+, by allowing it to convert into crit damage, and that the binding can sometimes the stacks can get dropped a bit too easily. If you micro your positioning you can hold yourself around 50-80 stacks, but it isn't easy, and may end up putting you out of position to help your carry, so it's a risk.

personally I'd just make it increase Crit Damage as a whole instead of crit chance. That's be better as a whole while not being overpowered and making it convert overcapped stats just seems to inconsistent to me and I dont like that. That and leave its ^ AP on it and it will be a in a good spot. I don't see the need to separate it into 2 items.

Also, leave

Personally, I'd rather they just up the Armor and AP on it a bit and make it build out of item 3191 instead of item 3024 .

Athene's Unholy Grail : Primarily has an issue of overstacked CDR IMO,

While I 100% agree, I also cant see a justified reason in removing its CDR since its supposed to be the Enchanter's equivalent of item 3165 and many Utility mages like Lux and Orianna who are supposed to able to opt into it for more utility would be hurt hard by lowering the CDR.

There is too much overcapped CDR in the Enchanter itemization, but I think it need be trimmed off elsewhere.

and being a healing amping item that doesn't come from the Forbidden Idol line meaning you can't get the shield/heal boost. Practically any support that would even consider it will so heavily overcap CDR with it as to instantly say "Na, not worth." when most of it's power combat power outside of CDR is... 40 AP and 30 MR? Ehh...

I am fine with it not building out of Forbidden idol as it would be too powerful with it and have to be nerfed to accommodate its own healing factors on top of that. Like Zeke's I feel it should ideally be a more AP heavy options for supports to opt in to. SInce it provides healing as is, it naturally scales with healing/Shielding Power you buy, so making it have it from the start is both not needed and overbuffing it tbqh.

Overall, item 3174 problem are its stat line. It needs 10 more AP to be in a good spot. Other than that it is pretty ,much fine as is.

Rework idea : Scrap Chalice line entirely.

no.

Lets face it, it's got no place in the game today, and many of the supports who might consider it would instantly remember "Oh yea, my base HP/5 is literal ass, amplifying that by my mana regen is nearly worthless when I could just get something to make me have a stronger self heal".

Literally no one says this, especially with ho much MP5 is in support itemization, lol.

Replace Chalice with Forbidden Idol. Harmony Passive is converted into unique passive : Overflowing Cup - Overcapped CDR is converted into shield/heal power. Boom. Now the terrible problem of enchanters of heavily overcapping CDR actually has an outlet to turn it into a useful stat. Remove MR from the completed Grail (As we no longer have chalice granting it).

Okay we need to chill. I like Healing shielding as much as the next guy but lets not put it on every item so that we end up with 300% HP/Shield power builds please.

Lulu gets enough shit as it is.

What about Micheal's Crucible you ask? Change the Chalice in the recipe to QSS ,

I'd actually be okay with this if it didn't result in the items price disparity. 800>1300 is a steep gold sink, especially on a support. That said, if it must be done, I'm okay as long as its MR is boosted considerably.

adjust mana regen down, and allow self cast or **allied cast ** (with Allied cast also cleansing self).

that's just broken. we don't need midlaners abusing it.

Can only be self-cast if hard CCed by an effect that would normally disable cast. Still can't cleanse allied suppression, although can self-cleanse it. Notably this gives mages a potential line to build QSS into, sure it grants no AP, but they at least get MR, mana regen, and CDR and the QSS active that they distinctly wanted in the first place, and maybe the heal/shield booster. Grant Unique Passive : Overflowing Cup from Grail rework to this as well.

oh so that's your intention. Well I disagree with doing this on a fundamental level. Mages have far too potent defensive options as is, not to mention on the way.

Ardent Censor : Insanely minor boost, make the health steal from the granted buff scale with heal/shield power. Otherwise leave alone, I don't think it needs any real buffs.

I'm okay with this but they'd have to revert the recent level scaling buff it got then to compensate. I agree the item needs no buffs and is fine how it is. Its my favorite Support item.

Ohmwrecker : Allow active to be cast on allied towers. If cast on allied tower, increases it's current HP to 25% max hp if below that, and makes it invulnerable to damage and doubles shot speed for 8 seconds. Minion gold from tower kills is granted to user. The same tower can't be buffed again for 2 minutes (same as cooldown of item, prevents stacked cheese blocking a push for 40 seconds). Tower disable duration buffed to 5 seconds (from 3), with the same clause of can't be debuffed again for 2 minutes. If cast on an enemy tower below 25% health, instantly destroys the tower. Point Runner unique passive is granted to all allies near a tower affected by the active.

It's a lot of changes to the active of the item, but hell, it needs a ton. It's literal garbage right now, and if we gotta tune it back later then fine. But right now the item may as well not exist. Lets buff the thing to hell and tune it back and see if it gets the ZZ'rot treatment where it went from unused to OP to fairly well balanced on usage. With the fact that each tower has a 2 minute cooldown on being modified by it, it prevents stack cases from either side (Unlike ZZ'rot where stacking it only made it better), so that should still keep it's usage at acceptable levels without it warping games too much even if we do make it overpowered.

Can't really argue with this tbh.

Overall, I'm mixed with your changes. The changes that need be made to itemisation aren't too drastic on the enchanter side imo. And you kinda left Warden/tank supports out to dry with any changes, notably their lack of access to CDR, (which is ironic since we enchanters have too much of it)

I personally would like to see item 3800 lose some base stats to give it 10 CDR. Maybe put it at 400 HP and 200 Mana, and have it build out of something other than item 3010 so that it isn't so expensive. Maybe something like your New Squire thing in terms of stats would be good.

Such an item would also make sense to build into your new item 3056 which could also get some CDR. I'd also like to give Tankier supports something that scales with HP5 similar to how The chalice line scales with MP5s.

Lastly, I'd like to see a change to item 3116 to make it more attractive for enchanters. The stats it provides would give them nice access to AP without it being abusable, but its passive is to redundant on them to get the item in most cases since they rarely have more than 1 spell that doesn't already slow or hard CC, and that spell rarely is justified in getting the slows for. (Nami W and Sona Q are the only ones where it is semi decent.)

Have its passive increase the power of existing slows by half the passive value. That way Enchanters at least CAN opt into it while it not being grossly overpowered on them or buffing it for midlaners or mage supports.

SO for example. If Karma Had Rylais and Q'd you, it would Slow you for 35 for the first second and 2% for the other 0.5 seconds of the slow.

another thing i considered was having it work for active spells like Redemption's damaging aspect and item 3092 active, but then we might have abuse my people that like to build things like item 3152 ..tho i dont think it would be TOO big a deal.