Can we please tone Brand down a bit?

KillerShim·Jul 21, 2018·56 votes·13,290 views

His passive is way too strong and is in need of mending. Here's what the numbers are currently on the live servers:

Brand's spells light his targets ablaze, dealing 4% of their maximum Health in magic damage over 4 seconds, stacking up to 3 times. When Blaze reaches max stacks on a Champion or monster, it becomes unstable. After 2 seconds it detonates, dealing magic damage equal to 12% - 16%(based on level) (+1% per 60 ability power) of their maximum Health to all targets in an area.

This doesn't account for the combo, which gives him another 2% max health damage per tick, and gives him another 10% extra damage for like 15 seconds because of how his passive works with Liandry's.

That 12%-16% is only base damage as well, if you get 60 AP, you get another 1%. With Liandry's and Rylai's alone, he's getting another 3.2% bonus max health damage. This doesn't even account for other items he'll pick up in the future items he'll pick up on the road like Void staff, which completely negates any MR I try to build against him, which also give him more % HP damage with his passive.

Like, I understand that he's a combo champion and all, but a champion shouldn't be doing like 12% of my max life because he pressed the E button on me when he has 2 specific items. That's not really fun to play against imo.

77 Comments

Daedric EtwahlJul 21, 201836 votes

One really annoying thing about Brand, I find, is that even if he does get caught out, if he gets even a second he'll unload everything and even if he dies the damage is done, basically turns him into a suicide bomber unless he literally gets one shot or stunned the whole time.

It's very stressful fighting Brand, as a squishy.

TwitchInMyPantsJul 21, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=THyyuzvv,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-07-21T08:43:10.141+0000)

One really annoying thing about Brand, I find, is that even if he does get caught out, if he gets even a second he'll unload everything and even if he dies the damage is done, basically turns him into a suicide bomber unless he literally gets one shot or stunned the whole time.

It's very stressful fighting Brand, as a squishy.

He don't even need to unload everything

He just needs W + R and he does more damage to your team than you did to just his health bar

He's better at suicide bombing than fuckin Karthus lol. He regularly outdoes ADCs with slower attacks like Jhin and Ezreal as a support in the damage stats, its pretty absurd. It is pretty much the only thing he does so he does need to be good at it, but I wish it was more burst and less % damage. That way the tanks aren't scared of him at least.

xhejms92Jul 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

He don't even need to unload everything

He just needs W + R and he does more damage to your team than you did to just his health bar

He's better at suicide bombing than fuckin Karthus lol. He regularly outdoes ADCs with slower attacks like Jhin and Ezreal as a support in the damage stats, its pretty absurd. It is pretty much the only thing he does so he does need to be good at it, but I wish it was more burst and less % damage. That way the tanks aren't scared of him at least.

If you all stay close it is your mistake. But if you al, get away and he used his spells then he is dead , while a talon , yas or whatever damn supersonic usain bolt fast champ can get away by jumping a wall , dashing and sop on and so forth. Besides just build MR. Even zhonya is a once in a while solution for the burn. Are you about to explode ? use zhonya. No boom and 2.5 sec of burn passive denied

mzicioJul 21, 201818 votes

I'd really like to see Riot fucking settling down with a gameplay thematic for Brand, because right now he's a DPS anti tank mage that still oneshots squishies and a great single target burst champion that also excels in teamfights. He's got conflicting themes that somehow work out and it's sort of annoying.

HP CrookshanksJul 21, 201810 votes

's passive is broken and needs a nerf. 4% of maximum health is too much.

saltranJul 21, 20189 votes

The problem with Brand is that he's opresive as a supp (or even replacing the adc) because on botlane he's against 2 ppl he can target with lower mobility and worse early than in mid.

I'm all for nerfing him a bit but the sad reallity is that he cant go back to midlane and work properly there.

Kurt HyzanJul 21, 20188 votes

item 3194 fucks him up beyond beliefs

In order to land his full combo, he needs to land 2 skillshots and get in close range to use his E. Do you want his damage to be nerfed but having more range into his E and allowing you to harass even more in botlane ? Or having his Q getting a bigger hitbox ? Or his R bouncing even more and giving more stacks to his passive ? No. is a burst mage, and what do burst mages do ? They burst people down. Take a look at what they did to Syndra , she's the prime example of a burst mage having his damage nerfed without any form of compensation, now she's just useless.

Meanwhile you got things like Zed who's a melee champ and can get 60% of someone hp by level 3 with a full ranged combo

sobi999Jul 21, 20181 votes

I agree with everything except that brand is a burst mage. He is a DPS mage. Its only because of powercreep that it seems that he can burst you (since i take electrocute on him) but he is primarily designed to be a DOT champ , hence why he buys liandries and rylais.

SukishooJul 21, 20182 votes

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses

Burst mage, even said by Riot.

Daddy AntsJul 21, 20187 votes

Brand's damage is legit disgusting.

KillerShimJul 21, 20183 votes

Glad we agree bud.

Daddy AntsJul 21, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Glad we agree bud.

I fed my ass off first timing Brand and STILL managed to match my mid laners damage.

https://i.imgur.com/BLjEJmW.png

Disgusting...

Spank the FoxJul 21, 20186 votes

something something immobile mages are weak something should do absurd damage to make up for their lack of mobility something

- Boards

3TWarriorJul 21, 20183 votes

try playing karthus XD his whole power-budget is based around him dying...that's not so good anymore

kog -mage: no escape methods at all

Anivia : why did my kit get nerfed again, was i even played this time? XD

Illaoi : I don't know if I can be called a mage, but if I build glass cannon, I can smash your face in

Fiddlesticks : some safety so his damage is rather minimal or conditional

Chogath : I think he was modernized a bit too much but idk, haven't gotten a chance to play him

Cassiopeia : marksman can do it, why not me? I'm supposed to be a DOT mage, so why do I shoot fangs at people?

Corki : be honest, I haven't been a marksman in years. I'm an AD caster

Blitzcrank : i'm a tank...my wombo combo though is all i've got!

Swain : Would I even be picked if I didn't have enough damage and durability to make a difference?

Veigar : I am evil! Stop laughing!

TwistedFate : i'm what an early-game champion really is and I have the lowest damage numbers of any mage...

Velkoz : my ultimate ability! NOOOOOOO! Curse you crowd control or even the slightest bit of mobility!

Zilean : why aren't I more popular?!!!

Zoe : Because I'm what happens when THEY go too far

ƒrostγJul 21, 20185 votes

His damage over time isn't a problem, the most annoying part of his kit is his burst damage. He shouldn't have both.

VG CrowsJul 21, 20185 votes

Seriously? Brand is what you think deserves nerfs? You have got to be kidding. Surprised there are people that whine about a completely immobile mage: Brand brings damage and that thing alone,it's his moto that's been going on for ages. He has almost no utility, nothing that can help him or his teammates in particular, only pure damage. Why don't we whine about Velkoz or Zyra then? The latter is basically Brand but with utility. Meanwhile there is meta BS shit like Zed,Talon,Zoe,Leblanc and other mobile no-brainer picks that are infinitely more cancerous to play against.
But no,its Brand who needs nerfs. If anything,he is not even the "middle"offender of this meta. Guess you never played immobiles just to understand what that class has to endure with all the mobility and damage creep going around.

MeritasJul 21, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=TrueMortal v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=THyyuzvv,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-07-21T15:05:06.490+0000)

Guess you never played immobiles just to understand what that class has to endure with all the mobility and damage creep going around.

Yep.

Mael JadeJul 21, 20185 votes

Well, you cant play bot lane without banning Brand nowadays if you dont want your ass burned in lane. The difference between Brand, Vel´Koz and Zyra as Supports: Brand has % damage build into his kit. At level 3 he can deal 24% of your hp with his passive alone, ignoring the damage from his spells. And while Vel´Koz needs some AP for his passive true damage to matter he needs Ap while brands damage on passive is always there.

sobi999Jul 21, 20182 votes

First of all, Velk has true damage in his passive and it has base damage as well as 50% AP scaling. Brand has %max health and a very low AP scaling on his passive.

I main both brand and Velk in bot lane. Brand is super reliable because he is not entirely skills-shot based and his ult is great in 2v2 situations. On the other hand, his W is easy to poke with and he has a reliable close ranged stun ( its easily dodgeable if you are far).

Velk suffers hard because of mobility creep but has way more burst and damage than brand does. Sadly, it is awfully hard to play skill shot champs in this meta where rakan and pyke go bot. If that was not bad, you have soraka and janna that negate all your poke with their shields and heals. On the top , tanks like Leona and Alistar can CC you to death since you are so squishy. In short, if you wanted to burst (brand is better), if you wanted to poke (which velk does better, but sadly too much sustain in lane and soraka, janna) and if you wanted to ult then gl because tanks will cc you.

Then again, Brand is more tankier than velk because he has enough HP in his items. I would go velk if i didn't go oom so quickly whilst throwing my skillshots, of which 50% were dodged.

RaiyzaJul 21, 20185 votes

We've been complaining about damage being too high for the past year.

Forget brand, nerf ALL damage. Period.

PercentagesJul 21, 20184 votes

The dude dies in like one hit, what more can you want?

KillerShimJul 21, 201836 votes

Ok, but that applies to any champion in the game that isn't a tank.

TempName54846Jul 21, 201810 votes

you mean including tanks not excluding :^)

Warlord RhinarkJul 21, 201817 votes

{quoted}

The dude dies in like one hit, what more can you want?

Assuming you even get close enough to him before he blows you up.

PercentagesJul 21, 20189 votes

I'd rather fight him than Talon, Zed, Yasuo, Fizz or pretty much anyone else.

Warlord RhinarkJul 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I'd rather fight him than Talon, Zed, Yasuo, Fizz or pretty much anyone else.

Yeah same.

saltranJul 21, 20186 votes

But these are midlaners and Brand is busted as a mage supp.

A fair comparition would be between playing against Brand supp or playing against other supps.

Warlord RhinarkJul 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

But these are midlaners and Brand is busted as a mage supp.

A fair comparition would be between playing against Brand supp or playing against other supps.

Hey, I wasn't the one who made the comparison.

I just agreed with it.

Crescent DuskJul 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

But these are midlaners and Brand is busted as a mage supp.

A fair comparition would be between playing against Brand supp or playing against other supps.

He's a mage support because he gets stomped in midlane by the aforementioned assassins and the likes of Ahri and Oriana and Azir.

Think about that.

EasternBladeStarJul 21, 20184 votes

The issue is he can still cast his ultimate and W in the time he's being killed. Due to his passive, this quick last-ditch spam is enough to burn over half of multiple people's HP bar.

I want people to recall, that Riot BUFFED Brand's Pyroclasm (R) missile speed way back, which - thanks to the numerous damage buffs - has become an issue recently.

Watch his champion spotlight and see for yourselves, how slowly the fireball originally moved.

Mael JadeJul 21, 20183 votes

They also doubled his passive damage a few patches ago cause why not, 6% max hp damage was totally fine and already way to strong.

EasternBladeStarJul 22, 20182 votes

His passive was fine before, as it still took into account your magic resistance, each 2% individually so. 12% total is a whole another thing, especially when 42 starting MR does not exist today.

I called it a stupid buff even back when it was first issued. He didn't need a damage buff. His poke was already good. But I guess they really wanted to compensate for ruining Liandry's.

PercentagesJul 21, 20183 votes

being lvl 7 mastery with him, i'm well aware. The guy is one of the slowest and most immobile champs in the game and you also want him to have no dmg as well? might as well delete him as a champion. There is a massive list of champions that completely SHIT on Brand. His dmg is fine...

EasternBladeStarJul 22, 20183 votes

Because my comment was - oh so flatout - complaint about his damage. Try again.

I am saying his ultimate was originally designed to be massive when timed well, which required setup. Nowadays it's just a nuke because you can throw it in there anytime and probably even net a kill with some luck.

The guy is one of the slowest and most immobile champs in the game

I don't understand where throwing blatant no-brainers gets you.

There is a massive list of champions that completely SHIT on Brand.

Which is what's also keeping him in check. Imagine if this was season 3 or 4 though.

His dmg is fine...

The ease, which he can access it these days, is not. Reasoning that someone else is broken is not a valid argument to maintain that someone else deserves such as well. Obviously, the damage needs to be toned down all across the board.

Z3SleeperJul 21, 20184 votes

Make it scale more with AP and have much less base.

Should honestly just be 8% - 12%. The damage for multiple explosions needs to be reduced, since some setups guarantee it and basically guarantee a team wipe (malph ult, ori combos, etc.).

IRight ArmIJul 21, 20183 votes

Brand has no mobility or escapes that's his balance.

KillerShimJul 21, 201810 votes

Are you trying to justify him one shotting everyone in a teamfight because of his immobility?

ValiantKillerJul 21, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Are you trying to justify him one shotting everyone in a teamfight because of his immobility?

Annie Veigar buff them up too since they same problem of immobility, gosh people want to defend high damage for no reason.

Seer of MindJul 21, 20185 votes

Annie Free stun after 4 spell casts.

Veigar Can put stun around himself to prevent people dashing on to him (Immediate fuck you to Rengar )

Crescent DuskJul 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

buff them up too since they same problem of immobility, gosh people want to defend high damage for no reason.

Annie doesn't even do that much burst anymore since the R change, Tibbers is garbage and her range unlike Veigar is too short while being garbage survival.

For high octane damage I'd much rather grab an Ahri who unlike Veigar can do damage from the get-go in spades and has massive kiting power on top of her charm which doesn't need her to hold off using abilities to waveclear just to have access to CC.

sobi999Jul 21, 20183 votes

One shotting and brand? O plz, now i know i do not need to justify it to you that eventhough brand is currently in a very good spot, there are tons of champs out there that are not just more overpowered than him but way more cancerous.

KillerShimJul 21, 20188 votes

The only reason you're not agreeing with me is because you have a 71% winrate on Brand.

MeritasJul 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Are you trying to justify him one shotting everyone in a teamfight because of his immobility?

You know, in an era of Mobility creep, this is the only way you can compensate champions without mobility. He was under a close watch by Riot back in the time.

Summonah12369Jul 21, 20183 votes

A Zoe took half of my health using just 80 ap and her q.

KillerShimJul 21, 20182 votes

That's a whole different topic in itself, which I'll make a post on later today.

sobi999Jul 21, 20183 votes

I prefer brand pressing E up close to me to take 12% of my max health late game over 7 seconds or so then zoe coming out of nowhere and R and Q me to 80% my health. As you can see, due to power creep, DOT users are really struggling and brand is probably one of the only ones who is viable and good. Yet somehow he is still only played as support mainly because he lacks the wave clearing and the mobility to vs assassins mid.

BijeesnyJul 21, 20183 votes

The only issue is that his W has a massive range, reduce it and it will be okay. The damage isn't an issue.

ResolutionJul 21, 20183 votes

You do realize if they nerf Brands damage, he's going to get compensation buffs in another area?

This topic has been brought up dozens of times over the last year, and it always breaks down to Brand's mobility. He's an immobile mage that gets shit on by anyone with a gap closer. Being a combo mage with two dodgeable skill shots doesn't help his case - as there's a lot of ways to outplay him from shortcomings in his kit.

Ask yourself, if he didn't do the damage he did - What would his worth be to the team compared to other champions. If the major complaint is he can burst someone to easily with his passive, there are 15+ meta champions right now that have the potential to one-shot you. I'd rather Brand kill you over 4 seconds vs someone killing you in 0.8 seconds.

Do you really want to see a mobile Brand? or being able to stun multiple people? That's what would happen if you touched his damage and gave him a rework...

xhejms92Jul 21, 20182 votes

Assasins counter brand . xerath with his range does as well , vel koz is a skill match up imo and so is lux and syndra. He is immobile , mana hungry , skill shot on Q , delay on W , low range on E . Now please tell me how he deserves a nerf when you have zed , talon yasuo , yi , trynd . Ffs please be reasonable

PercentagesJul 21, 20182 votes

ERRRMAH GERRRDD, I CANNOT DODGE! NERF CHAMP!