[VERY LONG] Botlane Meta, Items Rework, Runes : Not your usual post

Sylennus·3/22/2018, 8:28:59 PM·19 votes·1,426 views

Disclaimer: This post only reflects my personnal opinion about what's going wrong (or right) in League of Legends for the past few months to years. This is going to be a very long post, and I'll talk about many things. Please, don't comment to change the subject and/or twist my words. Thanks and have a nice reading !

As always, some players are unhappy about the state of League, Riot's decisions, or even the fact that we still have no Star Guardion Urgot a buggy death recap. This post only concerns the current state of League gameplay wise, the meta and its issues. I'm not going to talk about any skin (Thoughts and prayers to the Irelia Mains out there), any bug (for you, the Mordkaiser mains <3), or any issues related to player behavior (this one is for Riot Tantram I guess ?). Lately, I've found myself more unsatisfied than satisfied by League's State, and as a reaction I decided to write this, instead of waiting for things to happen. Also because I'd like to design games later and I need feedback

When listing a buff, I'll use this icon : summoner 7 for more readability, this one for a nerf :summoner 11, and this one for a rework/change : Ryze

I'll try as much as possible to talk in a chronological manner. Quick summary of what I'll talk about :

  • ADC & Assassins Role
  • Shields and Healing
  • Items rework
  • Runes reforged

TL;DR at the end.

ADC & Assassins Role

Let's start with the very beginning. Everyone who started playing before mid season 6 remember the infamous "ADC in 2k17 lul" meme, where assassins (LeblancRengarTalonKatarinaFizzShaco Ekko Akali KhazixZed ) were not reworked yet, and ADCs would litterally have no counter play against any fed assassin.

Then the patch 6.12 brought changes to AD items (I'm only listing changes related to what I talk about, click the link for the full patch notes) :

  • Infinity Edge's AD increased from 65 to 70. summoner 7
  • Essence River's AD increased from 65 to 70. summoner 7
  • Lord Dominik's Regards' AD increased from 40 to 50. summoner 7
  • Mortal Reminder's AD increased from 40 to 50. summoner 7
  • Youmuu's Ghostblade's AD lowered from 65 to 60. summoner 11

Overall, a buff to ADC damage, and slight buff for AD assassins if they build one of the two last whisper upgrade, otherwise a slight nerf.

The next patch, 6.13 brings various balance changes, including buffs to few supports (like Lulu), and the mini-rework of some supports items : many of them see their cost increased but gain stats in return. Teleport canalisation goes from 3.5s to 4.5s. Toplaners starts sweating

Here, it's a clear buff for supports, since they gain more stats from items, even if they have to pay more (they have to pay around 200 more gold for some support item, except ruby sightstone, which costs 200 gold less). Indirectly, ADCs are buffed.

The next patch, 6.14 brings many Sona changes, including AOE effect range increase and various Heal and Shield Ratio increase. ADCs are buffed again, even if it's indirectly. Slowly, supports gains more power to counter assassins and allow ADCs to have more survivability. On a side note, this is the patch where Viktor's hexcore's cost distribution is changed. (1250 gold for the first upgrade instead of 1000, 750 gold for the last upgrade instead of 1000). RIP Viktor mains, thoughts and prayers to you.

Patch 6.22 brings pre-season. No more armor penetration, lethality takes its place and it's a nerf to AD assassins' early game. To get the same amount of armor pen as before, you have to get level 8. This mechanic, made to avoid too snowbally assassins who would buy a lot of penetration early in the game ended up reworked few times until how we know it today : it scales with your level.

  • Duskblade of Draktharr's AD lowered from 75 to 65, gives 20 MS when out of combat (instead of the previous 5% MS boost), gives 15 lethality (instead of the 10 armor penetration), previous passive removed, 2 new ones : Nightstalker & Blackout. Ryze (I'd like to say it's a nerf, but the current iteration is quite different concerning how Nightstalker damage is calculated and how lethality works, so I'll stay on the rework tag)
  • Youmuu's Ghostblade's cost lowered from 3100 to 2900, gives 20 MS when out of combat, gives 20 lethality (instead of the 20 armor penetration), passive lost its attack speed boost. Ryze
  • Maw of Malmortius no longer grants 10 armor penetration, gained 10% CDR. Ryze
  • Serrated Dirk's AD increased from 20 to 25, gives 20 MS when out of combat, gives 15 lethality (instead of the 10 armor penetration). summoner 7
  • New : Poacher's Dirk (item 3252), 15 AD, gives 20 MS when out of combat, upgrade to Serrated Dirk after taking 3 unique ennemy camps.
  • New : Edge of Night (item 3814 ), 60 AD, 35 MR, 15 lethality, gives 20 MS when out of combat, Active : anti-spell shield.

Overall, it is a nerf to assassins to my mind (so an indirect buff to ADCs), for several reasons : Lethality at this point (during patch 6.22 and later on, not now) is worse than armor penetration in early game, or early game decides the mid to late game. Besides, Youmuu and Malmortius got nerfed for assassins, because other classes abused them (ADC abused Youmuu for the Attack Speed, Malmortius was abused by Bruisers for Armor Pen). While Maw of Malmortius is not a core item for AD assassins, it's still very good against an AP carry, and Youmuu's bonus AS helped slide some more AA during your burst. Besides, Duskblade and Youmuu got nerfed later (10 AD loss on Duskblade, 5 AD loss for Youmuu). Of course, and fortunately, lethality formula was changed a bit later to be easier to understand, and Duskblade saw its passive NightStalker receive a huge buff, until yesterday patch where its damage were finally reduced by 120 for melee and 100 for ranged at level 18. All lethality items lost their MS boost out of combat a while ago (Patch 7.14, I'll talk about it later) except Youmuu, which boost got doubled from 20 to 40, to make a clearer difference between the 2 most common assassin item : choose mobility first, or damage and vision control first.

Alright I'm not gonna list every patch from 6.12 to the current one, you got my point, from mid season 6 to pre-season 7, ADC and supps were buffed slightly patch by patch, indirectly or not (except our boy Lucian, RIP with Senna), enough to make a difference. Next big change incoming around mid-season 7, Patch 7.9 : Tank items rework, Support items now have a quest to complete by gaining gold. I'm not gonna list this things, read the patch notes to remember if you don't. What interests us, is the AD items changes, as well as the Crits items changes, see below.

AD items :

  • Guardian Angel rework : now give 40 AD & 30 Armor, cost unchanged- Ryze
  • Blade of the Ruined King's cost increased from 3300 to 3400. summoner 11
  • Death's Dance's AD increased from 75 to 80. summoner 7
  • The Bloodthirster's AD increased from 75 to 80. summoner 7
  • The Last Whisper's armor penetration lowered from 45% to 35%. summoner 11
  • Mortal Reminder's armor penetration lowered from 45% to 35%, cost lowered from 2700 to 2600. Ryze
  • Lord Dominik's Regards's armor penetration lowered from 45% to 35%, cost lowered from 2700 to 2600, damage amplification from passive increased from 15% to 20%. Ryze
  • Black Cleaver's armor shred per stack lowered from 5% to 4%, maximum shred lowered from 30% to 24% as consequence. summoner 11 Bruisers sweats

Critic items :

  • Infinity Edge's cost lowered from 3600 to 3400. summoner 7
  • Essence River's cost lowered from 3600 to 3400. summoner 7
  • Statikk Shiv's damage to champions increased from 50-120 to 60-160. summoner 7
  • Panthom Dancer's cost increased from 2550 to 2600. summoner 11
  • Zeal's cost lowered from 1300 to 1200. summoner 7
  • Kircheis Shard (item 2015 )'s cost increased from 750 to 800. summoner 11

Huge buff to ADC survivability through the buff of lifesteal items and Guardian Angel, to their damage through the buff of lifesteal items and Lord Dominik's (more damage against tanks), and to the speed at which they powerspike, through the Crit items cost diminution. Let's sum up since 6.12 : ADCs and Supports Buffed, they have more stats, for a lowered cost in case of ADCs and the class supposed to counter them (Assassins mostly) got their items nerfed while having bad reworks, most assassins players were not happy about this reworks except the Katarina/Ekko/Zed mains maybe (I got no idea, but I haven't heard them complain about their respective champions reworks) ?

Next important patch : 7.14 :

  • The lethality items are changed to become as we know them today in their current iteration, except very few exceptions (Duskblade passive damage, etc.). Ryze
  • Thornmail updated (not gonna list the changes, it has been modified since then). Overall, the item is more useful. summoner 7
  • New : Bramble vest : Thornmail, but smaller.

Side note : it's the patch where Cho-gath got his E update (not a toggle anymore and associated effects) and where Kayn got released.

Buff to AD assassins through the Mini-rework to their items (more clear differences between each item, and a huge passive upgrade from the previous iteration of Duskblade with the lethality scaling), and a good buff to tanks (especially their laning phase through Bramble vest).

Next patch, guess what ? Duskblade nerf. It's important to note they hotfixed during the 7.14 cycle the base damage of Duskblade from 55 to 105 though. Since this patch, Duskblade only received nerfs (ignoring the 7.22 buff to lethality : 18 to 20, reverted during 7.24b cycle).

Let's recap everything since the beginning : Assassins got their burst delayed (so a nerf, since an assassin is supposed to kill it's target as fast as possible), they got most of their items (core or not) changed to avoid other classes to abuse them, so a nerf because of others, not themselves being too good, they got their early game nerfed through lethality and they got duskblade as a compensation but it got nerfed. ADCs on the opposite side : gained a lot of survivability, a lot of AD through the different items, got their core items costs reduced and got their burst increased through Shiv and RFC buffs. Besides, the new runes brought ADCs even more survivability through Fleet Footwork and overheal.

Let's recap the recap : Assassins got their burst delayed, ADCs got their burst increased. See anything wrong here ? I think you got my point even if I'm pointing out the most obvious problems, I'm not particularly a fan of assassin meta and I want to be objective but it seems Riot's decisions about ADCs and Assassins for the past year have been particularly bad sadly. But I have to admit I'm happy for players who got their mains reverted (Looking at you Rengar mains and Leblanc mains, even if I hate playing against both of you).

Shields and Healing

Okay next topic. Looking through patch notes is long and exhaustive so I won't always be linking everything from now.

I want to talk about Ardent meta but it's over and I think everyone heard enough about it so I'll skip it, but I'd like to say that it feels awful to let something like this run for months, even if it's better for Worlds stability to avoid changing meta suddenly.

Locket rework : Patch 6.22 (pre-season 7)

Locket of the Iron Solary is reworked to become a situational item with an active shield, very strong on HP stacking champions (looking at you Cho'Gath), a bit less on squishy supports, but it applies Ardent effect so it works okay with them too (until Ardent got nerfed). The idea was good, the execution was done poorly. The decay was good though, compared to some other kind of shield (I talk about it below).

It was quite hard before the new runes and the new grevious wounds items to deal with healing but to my opinion you can deal with healing correctly now. But shields ? We have been told for months that you're working on this subject, that you plan on implementing anti-shield mechanics in game. What do we have ? Irelia got passive conditional on-hit magic damage, tripled against shield. What if they ban Irelia when her reworks comes out ? We gotta wait another 6 months to have one ability to deal bonus damages to shield, but only if the target is rooted ?

On a more serious note, we can understand as players you need time to develop new mechanics, but right now it just feels like you say yes and think no. I'm perfectly fine with Riven shield. It lasts 1.5 second only. It's either used to avoid damages, or dash. Janna shield ? Lulu shield ? They're conceived to avoid the ennemy to even get close to your carry. Supports shields are unlike other shields in the game made to have it up all the time and boost your ADC/Carry. Rakan on this point is well designed, because his shield is situational : he uses it in case of incoming damage or to get away. Janna shield lasts 5 seconds and gives the target a certain amout of AD. I don't think it should work like that. It's not based on the reward mentality : "You play good, here is a reward". For example, if her shield lasted only 2s and gave the same amount of AD based on what's left of the shield (shield totally destroyed, gives the totality of the AD value 2s after the shield destruction, shield at 50%, gives 50% of the AD value, etc.) it would feel much more skilled and gives more room for counterplay. A shield is made to negate damage, not scare the ennemy of fighting because half the time your ADC have a shield that represent half of his total HP pool.

I have exagerated my thoughts there for you to clearly understand them. Make shields supports more skilled by having shields last a shorter amount of time, and giving their other bonuses if they're (partially) destroyed.

Items rework

I'm talking about the AP items changes reworks. I think it was very well done, giving more options to every AP while still maintaining a good balance mid. What bothers me, is your reflection behind this is : Every AP mid starts with Morellonomicon, let's give them more options. That's a nice way of thinking. If only it wasn't just applied to AP mids.

Let's look at ADCs itemization :

  • item 3087item 3031item 3094 if you have no mana gating.
  • item 3508item 3094item 3031 if you have mana gating.
  • item 3124item 3153item 3085 if your ADC is made for on-hit/Attack speed.

I mean, it's not even a joke, or me exagerating, it's litteraly the only 3 builds you see for the first 3 items on every ADC, except Draven and Miss Fortune. Where is the diversification here ? Besides, that's the 3 same core items for every ADC, not one item like it used to be for AP mids.

Let's look at tanks itemization :

  • item 3047 item 3076 Against an AD
  • item 3047 item 3211 Against an AP

Okay we're done here pack it up boys

I know you're working on Ninja tabi this patch, just wanted to do a bit of irony, it's not my best quality but it may be appreciated in such a long post.

Okay back to business. I think you got my point once again, the AP itemization changes were fantastic, why don't you do this for ADCs ? To my mind Assassins are in a "okay spot" now considering Duskblade changes (they could use a new item, something to pass by shields maybe ?), tanks already got their items rework last year, and support are in a very good spot with the new support items brought last season.

Runes reforged

I don't have particular issues with Runes, even thought some could use some love, but more with the reasons you decided to change them, and how you're changing them now.

When we heard about Runes Reforged (or at least me I can't speak for others) I was super excited to try them out and theorycraft many pages, to see what synergyze well with each champions. 5 months later, I have to say I'm a bit disappointed. You keep nerfing every runes. Originally, you changed them to make every rune feel like an impactful choice, now it just feels like it's slowly going back to old runes. I'm not even talking about the time needed to develop a new bruiser keystone. You guys do freaking awesome job on one side (Example Zoé's hair) and you have brain farts on the other side (Example, Irelia's hair). This comparison is not made to insult anyone at Riot Games nor say you suck at doing your job, it's just to make you realize that after 8+ years, it's starting to feel awful to have such mistakes or slow reactions. Every year you bring unique things and fantastic ideas, such as Runes Reforged, Invasion Game Mode, Great reworks, and sometimes you take decision that are totally not agreeing with your past self. Almost every rune is being nerfed. Sudden Impact cooldown went from 4s to 25s on PBE ? Gathering Storm nerfed, after Scorch was nerfed ? Celerity nerfed ? PTA nerfed ? Fleet Footwork nerfed ? Unsealed Spellbook nerf ?

I understand some runes needs tweaking, you just launched them, but stop nerfing for the sake of "This rune is picked too much, let's nerf it". This is probably not how you decide to nerf Rune X or Rune Y but that's how it feels like and it's awful. For the first time in a long time, Unsealed spell book brought much more actions in Pro play, first thing you do is nerf it. I'm not saying it doesn't needed it, I'm saying stop nerfing overpicked runes and start buffing underpicked one. Sorcery used to be picked too much, first thing you do is nerf it. Players are always gonna prefer X over Y or Y over Z, and nerfing X won't make Y any more popular, it will just annoy them. As long as I know you don't buff a champion just because his pickrate is low, you buff because he needs it, or at least that's what I hope because sometimes it feels disturbing.

Anyway my goal was not to blame you guys but to give you my thoughts (and hopefully they're the same as a certain amount of players, only the boards will tell us). You do awesome job in general, just try to me more consistent and listen more quickly to us, we may not all be objectives, but our main goal is to enjoy the game and to help you make the game better ! I probably forgot to talk about a thousands of significant things but I think it's already long enough.

TL;DR : Riot, stay coherent with yourself, try to re-use your good ideas in other fields (AP itemization changes for Markmens would be nice) and mostly, listen to us more quickly ! One of the best example was given by Cactopus, he really gave us the feel to care about us, sadly he left you guys but he was not the only one to do it, and I'm sure you all can do it =)

Hopefully you enjoyed reading me and/or want to share with me in the comments, I'd love to hear your thoughts about this guys and girls, Rioters or not !

My eyes are litterally popping out right now I spent several hours writing this, excuse me for any spelling mistake

edit : formatting

18 Comments

Shukr4n3/22/2018, 8:44:59 PM4 votes

sorry i just barely read the adc part since im adc main.

lucian built black cleaver for a nice part of a season and u didnt put it in .

but.

if u carefully go to the shop and click "attack damage" filter u are showed a lot of stuff. which build some recipes.

u dont build IE because it s fashion, but because it s the most efficient item to be build on certain builds.(crit builds)

should i build a trinity on a AA based champ? meh, i can have better stats for different price,

BT? maybe, as ..5th item if i really really really need some shield and if i am draven, maybe.... otherwise i have botrk which gives me dps.

deaths's dance? i have botrk or BT

frozne mallet? 3100gold for 30 ad.

my role, adc role is to destroy opponent in the fastest way possible. DPS-ing them.

i dont need much hp, i have my tanks. i dont need shields, i got support.

how would u change the itemization of the game for adcs? real suggestions, telling "we need more diversity" is nothing...

even dota has certain builds and if u dare to change them u are flamed by entire community...so

3411235456523/22/2018, 9:17:17 PM4 votes

well right off the bat, you have some timings wrong. The ADC in 2017 circlejerk was not in 2016. It started around February of 2017 and intensified from that point on, leading to up until the Ardent censor circlejerk which then lasted for 6-8 months due to obvious but unspoken biases in the Riot team. What happened in 2016 was the ADC item rework where they introduced shiv , rfc , dmg reduction on pd, higher crit on these zeal items , addition of ER, and buffs to IE. This happened in the beginning of 2016 and its entirely separate from the massive crit item cost reductions which happened in mid 2017. Two separate timelines when they got massively buffed. Just wanted to clear that up.

saltran3/22/2018, 10:30:45 PM3 votes

About the "Assasins and adc in 2k17":

I have to strongly disagree, for me you are missing the point of what made the non utility adcs garbage in that meta:

The major problem was not that assasins were strong, the major issue was that the whole botlane meta was dominated by lethality abusers and lane bullies supps as well, that was the reason why Tristana (the most infamous adc right now) was literally the worst adc in the game.

(That was due to Lethality buffs, but the utility adcs were already meta before this buffs, if you look at 2016 Worlds and most if the 2016 pro play the most picked adcs were Jhin-Ashe-Sivir if I not wrong)

So no, the major problem was never the assasins. That's the problem with circlejerks: they take half of what is truly happening and fill the rest with bullshit fueled by rage.

(Since your post is too long I'm doing short coments for some of the points you made)

saltran3/22/2018, 10:04:57 PM2 votes

I mean, looking at your 3 adc builds I can only see that is way more diverse than in first seasons. I remember when literally every adc would run: IE - PDancer (old one) - BT (the old with stacks) - LWhisper - and the only item that changed was the last: GA, old Banshee or sometimes a second PDancer.

(I haven't read the whole thread since as you say it's really long, just wanted to coment about this part)

HalcyonDweller3/23/2018, 5:59:28 PM1 votes

That was thorough but hard to follow. I recommend you readjust the format to make it more consistent throughout. You said you would list things by patch, but then it was not made super clear where each patch began or ended.

I upvoted anyways for the thorough analysis, but here are my suggestions for making it easier to read, given its length.

Just a few tricks you can use if you decide to make it more patterned:

The pound symbol "#" with a space after it at the start of the line will make a super large font for the rest of that line.

Like this

Three dashes ("- - -" but without the spaces between them) next to one another alone on a line creates a line across the center of the screen, like this:


And you can create a secondary list by using a space before the next dot or dash in the list like this:

"*_" + text "_*_" + text

(the _ symbols are supposed to represent spaces rather than actual underscores.

Example list:

  • Section 1
  • Section 1 item 1
  • Section 1 item 2
  • Heading 2
  • Section 2 item 1
Thefrostyviking3/23/2018, 6:36:27 PM1 votes

Thank you for the long post, its nice seeing some discussion among all the "OMG NERF MARKSMEN PLX" posts x)

There are a lot of things that riot did that did not quite make sense indeed, but the main problems as i see it now are static shiv damage on champs when critting, the hyperscaling of rageblade as well as some marksmen individually like Tristana or twitch being impossibly frustrating to play against just due to their design.

That and lifesteal applying before actual damage dealt, those ought to be the direct reasons causing marksmen to do some stuff they werent meant to.

And honestly, given that all marksmen need a few stats its not strange for them to use roughly the same items, everyone wants the best, everyone does that if looking at Korea for instance.

But you also raised the point of supports coming into power like never before in league, which really only helped to reveals a much older problem, before that happened the supports were almost always like 4 levels and thousands of golds below everyone else, now they suddenly sit much more evenly in both which makes some supports be completely bonkers because their kits were kinda designed around not having gold.

But i also think you downplayed the entire lethality thing a bit, do consider that before that came into the game everyone would get like one armor pen item and be done with it, now even if you get less per item you get more of it instead....there is a reason this was meta for weeks and still is on many champs.

Then to my final personal thought, there is a huge problem with marksmen from a different source, it being their very different performances.

Some marksmen, usually the rageblade users along vayne and trist, can very quickly in a game gain the power to contest and strike back against Tanks,......an ability that almost every other marksman actually lacks.

if playing say Ashe, cait or MF you´ll lack the ability to do pretty much anything against a thornmail+ninja tabi+health item rammus/mundo/seju etc all the way until 4-5 items, you even die faster than you can hurt them in some cases.

Meanwhile kog at rageblade+berserkers and maybe a zeal can pretty easily melt them down at his pace, Varus is also around there and Vayne does it the moment she gains attackspeed of any kind along with points in her W.

I have lost count of the times i get flamed playing AD for not being able to do anything about the enemy tank because they are fed or i just lack gold for whatever reason.......this massive discrepancy between the performance of marksmen is causing a great deal of issue´s vs the tanks of current league....tanks who at the same time flame marksmen like Varus/Vayne because those can melt the tanks so quickly despite the metric tons of armor and health.

I´d personally like the anti-tank performances be average´d out a bit, the really heavy burst nerfed and that some champs got looked at a bit more in detail.

But thankfully riot did state that they are looking into marksmen for the midseason update so there is hope for things to improve.

ChaddyFantome3/23/2018, 10:37:52 PM1 votes

Let's start with the very beginning. Everyone who started playing before mid season 6 remember the infamous "ADC in 2k17 lul" meme, where assassins ( ) were not reworked yet, and ADCs would litterally have no counter play against any fed assassin.

Correct me if i am wrong, but i am PRETTY damn sure Assassins had already been reworked before that meme became a thing.