Fizz's E is far to overpowered

Darknesshas1··15 votes·5,005 views

If you've ever played against a fizz in mid you'll know the pain of that slippery little bastard bouncing out of the way of your perfectly aimed skillshot combo and him walking out with no damage and half of your health bar. The ability is objectively far too overpowered, even if you ignore the rest of his kit.

Fizz's Flip renders him Untargetable, Invulnerable, allows him to close distance, and does damage with no drawbacks. Each of these status's/effects are powerful enough to be considered ults on some characters. Kayle, Twitch, Rengar, Khazix, Ekko, Rek'sai, Kai'sa, Xayah, Nocturne, Etc. have two maybe 3 of these effects as their ULTIMATES, Ekko being the only one with all 4. Fizz having all that as an ability with a 12 second CD is waaaaaaaaaaaay too overpowered no mater how you look at it. The ability has no drawbacks to use that aren't just basic problems every character has (Like CD or Mana consumption) and does far too much considering the rest of his kits damage.

Everyone here has seen a fizz throw his ult and flip simultaneously and destroy your HP in 0.0 seconds. I have an actual screenshot of him doing 2.3K in 0.0 on a match i wasn't behind on.

The reason i mention his Untargetable status with his ult because it renders him invincible from tower damage as well. This one part of his kit is the root of the problem and it cant be fixed by adjusting damage, Mana, duration or CD. Its problem is the Invaun status when he uses it, The fact hes completely invincible in the two seconds hes moving makes it too OP.

37 Comments

Jamaree7 votes

If you ever think something in a champion’s kit is too strong, play the champion, it tends to be there for a reason.

The thigh guy10 votes

{quoted}

If you ever think something in a champion’s kit is too strong, play the champion, it tends to be there for a reason.

No. I’ve played fizz. His e is actually just broken beyond belief.

Jamaree5 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TBamX1TQ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-30T11:39:51.456+0000)

No. I’ve played fizz. His e is actually just broken beyond belief.

When? Once several months ago, or is this another case of you totally having a Diamond smurf that you aren't going to show but where you are Master's MMR on him?

Darknesshas13 votes

[deleted]

Jamaree4 votes

{quoted}

masters MMR dont mean shit, it just mean you can land S- games. Also, dont look into people history's to invalidate their points, it makes you an asshole.

And crying about a champion's ability while maining champions who all have their own bullshit but you are ok with it because you like it and showing bias makes you a scrub, but hey, here we are.

hrooza dota 3 votes

when somebody claim he played the champion, we need to see if he really did play him or not.

The thigh guy2 votes

{quoted}

When? Once several months ago, or is this another case of you totally having a Diamond smurf that you aren't going to show but where you are Master's MMR on him?

I’ve played every champion in this game finding who I enjoy and who I don’t.

Let’s put it like this. People bitch that zhonya’s is a mage exclusive item, and that the effect is too powerful to have locked in for just mages. People have said zhonya’s needs to be a 5 minute cooldown.

Fizz has this effect + benefits, on a basic ability.

Jamaree3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TBamX1TQ,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-30T14:36:01.069+0000)

I’ve played every champion in this game finding who I enjoy and who I don’t.

Let’s put it like this. People bitch that zhonya’s is a mage exclusive item, and that the effect is too powerful to have locked in for just mages. People have said zhonya’s needs to be a 5 minute cooldown.

Fizz has this effect + benefits, on a basic ability.

Yeah and? He doesn't have a win rate to support a nerf, nor play rate for that matter.

The thigh guy2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah and? He doesn't have a win rate to support a nerf, nor play rate for that matter.

And? Akali doesn’t have the win rate to warrant nerfs. But most people agree she’s broken out her ass.

Win rates do not determine if something is broken. Examples. Ryze Azir Elise Kalista.

Jamaree1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TBamX1TQ,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-30T14:42:58.622+0000)

And? Akali doesn’t have the win rate to warrant nerfs. But most people agree she’s broken out her ass.

Win rates do not determine if something is broken. Examples. Ryze Azir Elise Kalista.

What does then, and fine, then no one is allowed to bring up win rates for champions ever again then, period.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

What does then, and fine, then no one is allowed to bring up win rates for champions ever again then, period.

You’re the one arguing here. It’s not my job to answer when you move the goal posts my dude.

Long story short.

People say zhonyas is broken. Fizz has a zhonyas built into his kit.

Darknesshas12 votes

i think kennens passive is too op as well. Ive played him. Hes too op

Jamaree2 votes

{quoted}

i think kennens passive is too op as well. Ive played him. Hes too op

How many times, was this normal or ranked, what was the MMR/rank?

Daddy Ants5 votes

i CaNt PLaY vS FiZz sO He mUsT Be OVeRpOwErED!!!

Darknesshas11 votes

If its impossible to fight, That means it is overpowered. [edited - Ulanopo]

ModUlanopo2 votes

{quoted}

If its impossible to fight, That means it is overpowered. [edited - Ulanopo]

I've edited out the call for people to not post on the boards. Please don't do that.

Moody P3 votes

You should not be using your whole combo against Fizz if you know his E is up unless you hit him with hard CC and can guarantee the rest.

E is his only way of wave clearing and pushing the wave so he is vulnerable to being shoved in pre6. If he uses it to clear then you have 12 seconds to attack him virtually for free as he is down his main gap close and damage tool.

SirHydro1 votes

I don't know what you or other's are talking about when you say E is his only way of wave clear. For one, Fizz clears just like Annie with getting resets off of his W. It's why I start W first in lane, I can hit 2-3 before my enemy laner by clapping last hits with it.

Plus, WHY would you use your ESCAPE to wave clear? I see a Fizz E on the minion wave, I immediately jump on his ass and curb stomp him. Because he wasted his Playful/Trickster to WAVE CLEAR. He can't wave clear if I win a trade and force him to back, or simply kill him out right because he DOESN'T HAVE HIS ESCAPE.

I repeat. Any Fizz E'ing a minion wave deserved to get 100-0'd and then listen to them cry about how their enemy is OP. You blow a valuable Cooldown to farm, no matter who you play as, you deserve the punishment.

Plus I max Q first and go Electrocute, so I front load all of my damage. By the time I Q in, auto, and w, I've proc'd Electrocute and already won the trade. I reserve E to chase and finish the kill if they are low. Or just to E away and avoid trade back dmg and reset. There's no point in priming Q with your W since they changed the way his W works and you no longer have to "cook" it.

Keeping low points in E also keeps it mana cost down, so the lane pattern goes like this: Last hit creeps with W. If Electrocute and all q, w, and e are up, go in for Q, auto, W trade. E out to keep your HP up, E after them to finish them off, or if you can, just walk away and hold E if you don't need it.

Post 6 same thing applies, except you pull up R hit box, taunt/joke to lure enemy closer, then throw the ult. If you pull up the indicator before you use the animation to taunt or joke, you can throw ult without leaving the animation to pull up Indicator. The cast time is so quick, people see me lay back on the ground as Fizz to taunt, and before they get halfway up to me to punish me they are holding a fish in their hands and a fin is circling them. This is when they are at about 60% hp, so the follow up garuntees the kill.

Please, let me lane vs a Fizz using e to wave clear. Miss me with that weak shit.

Saianna2 votes

you guys bring up laning phase. But in mid+ to endgame, when Fizz has both maxed E and CD, this ability is "slightly" bonkers.

And cause he has pretty strong burst with just Q+W + lichbane/luden, you either throw everything you have in hopes he won't E in time, or he just kills you. There's hardly any middleground.

Darkdemon6533 votes

He as a champion is far from overpowered, so what would you give him in return for nerfing his E?

Darknesshas14 votes

you cant give him anything in return, you'd have to rework it into something far less destructive.

Darkdemon6534 votes

{quoted}

you cant give him anything in return, you'd have to rework it into something far less destructive.

Why would you want to only nerf a non-overpowered champion?

Darknesshas11 votes

Hes not "Non-overpowered", That ability makes him overpowered. Hence a nerf.

SirHydro3 votes

You're wrong about a few things, and that just tells me your opinion is skewered. No wonder you get bodied by Fizz mid, you don't even understand several things about him. So let me point out where your wrong, and explain why you need to actually git gud, and that it isn't Fizz being too strong =) Bear with me, open up your mind.

Fizz's Flip renders him Untargetable, Invulnerable, allows him to close distance, and does damage with no drawbacks.

Two things wrong with this so far: Fizz is NOT invulnerable during Play/Trickster. Things like Ignite, Malzahar Maelefic Visions, Teemo and Cass's dot poison, Karma's W tether Lb's tether, will still damage Fizz while he's UNTARGETABLE. The fact that you believe this is evidence how very little you know about Fizz. And we all know how people complaining about things they don't understand go. You blame your loss on Fizz being "over powered" yet you don't even understand how Fizz works. Surely your lack of knowledge on Fizz contributed to your loss?

The second thing wrong, is that his E has no drawbacks, when in fact it has more than one. First off, simply using it means that he won't be able to use it again for (at best, maxed rank and cd) 12 seconds. Just like Blitz's Q, a Fizz without his E is much different than a Fizz with his E up. A Blitz that just missed his Q is a joke until it's back up. A Blitz with his Q up is terrifying and a threat. By sheer virtue of using his E Fizz puts himself at risk.

(Small note: Yes Fizz can use his E as a gap closer. But no, he doesn't. That's what his Q is for. He has two possible gap closers, but only 1 Escape. Good Fizz players gap close with Q, and escape with E. Since using Q to escape requires a targetable enemy unit behind you to dash through)

It also costs (gasp) mana. A looot of mana. And other champs have cooldowns and mana costs, and for those champs they matter too. You don't seem to realize how incredibly taxing a 90 mana cost spell at RANK ONE is. Fizz pays a massive chunk of resources in mana to use every single E. So onto your next point.

Each of these status's/effects are powerful enough to be considered ults on some characters. Kayle, Twitch, Rengar, Khazix, Ekko, Rek'sai, Kai'sa, Xayah, Nocturne, Etc. have two maybe 3 of these effects as their ULTIMATES, Ekko being the only one with all 4.

Now, I already pointed out that Fizz is NOT Invulnerable during E, so we can go ahead and take out Kayle. To be honest I'm even sure why you put Twitch here, since his stealth (Untargetability) is on his Q, he isn't Invulnerable, not sure a range increase helps to "close distance" and "does damage with no drawbacks" isn't true since Twitch can atually MISS with his bolts fired during his Ult since they don't track and go in straight lines.

Right, that leaves Ults that make the user Untargetable, gap close, and "does dmg wtih no drawbacks"(Which I'll say out right is wrong, since in order to dmg the enemy with Fizz E you have to be in melee range, and thus you are in range to be retaliated upon. There are drawbacks wether you notice them or not)

Rengar: Makes him Untargetable for a substantial period of time. Rengar can move during this period, reposition, cover great distances, and gets bonuses and buffs to his next attack, and an automatic passive leap. This isn't even everything his ult does, since using it can make the entire enemy team back off and play differently. But this all seems fair for an ult. Fizz's time window of Untargetability is nothing compared to the length of Rengar's ult. Rengar's gap close is vastly superior to Fizz's range on E. Rengar's ult has no drawback, since he can use it and not even have to go in to affect the enemy team, thus no drawback, no risk. Fizz's E has risk. So really, this is a poor example for you to use.

Khazix: Can go Untargetable two, up to THREE times. Entering stealth, procing his passive and Duskblade, as well as Sudden Impact Rune. Fizz goes Untargetable once. Khazix can be even harder to get to than Fizz. Khazix can go Untargetable 2-3 things, plus he has a JUMP, that gets extra range when evolved, and RESETS on kills/takedowns, making him HARDER to hit and get to. Another bad example, Khazix is actually harder to pin down than Fizz. You're not arguing your own points well so far.

Ekko: Ekko doesn't become Untargetable, or Invulnerable during his ult. It's a blink, and a heal, and his sheild is probably involved, and it nukes for massive damage. I have no idea how you even compare Fizz E to Ekko's R, let alone how you want me to believe this supports your argument either. What?

Rek'sai: Goes Untargetable just like Fizz E, for longer period of time. The gap close is also far greater than Fizz's E. Plus Rek'sai can gap close with Burrowed E as well. So Rek'sai's R out performs Fizz's E. And it's her Ult. Seems fair. What's your point?

Kai'sa: Her ult grants her a sheild and a massive gap closer. However, it neither makes her Untargetable nor Invulnerable. She gains Stealth on evolved E, but at no point does Kai'sa beecome Invulnerable. Again, you demonstrate your lack of knowledge of the game, and are talking about things you don't understand. Frankly, you're making wrong points. This is me pointing out the fact you are wrong, and explaining why you are wrong.

Xayah: The only parts you're comparing here is the Invulnerability. So I'll bring up the area of effect and cone is far superior and deadlier than Fizz's E. Xayah using R has even less drawback then Fizz using his E. I'll also use this chance to mention Fizz's E mana costs are on part with Ultimates. Sooo.....why are we saying Fizz E is overpowered. Because Xayah R?

Nocturne: He does not become Untargetable. Impairing the enemies vision with Darkness does not remove their ability to target him within range. Nocturne is Invulnerable to Spells when is spellsheild is up but that's not his ult. It is, however, a gnarly gap closer! It's ten times the Gap Closer that Fizz's E is. Bad choice to compare, since Nocturne's R basically curb stomps every aspect of Fizz's E. Not making your points that well. Not selling them to me.

So all those champs, that have Ultimates and mechanics put into their power budget, and Fizz gets watered down similarities to an Ultimate move on a basic ability, with the same Mana as an Ultimate ability, long cooldowns, and similar power budget to basic abilities? Right.....seems like that's how things were intended to be.

You brought up all those champs and I point out how each of those champs Ult's also brings either more or better of what Fizz's E does, or entirely new and unique things that Fizz's E can't do. Let's move on, and address more of your grievances with Fizz.

Fizz having all that as an ability with a 12 second CD is waaaaaaaaaaaay too overpowered no mater how you look at it. The ability has no drawbacks to use that aren't just basic problems every character has (Like CD or Mana consumption) and does far too much considering the rest of his kits damage.

If Fizz is maxing his E, to do all this magical "tons of damage" you're talking about, than his Q and his W wil not be hitting as hard. If Fizz is maxing Q, his E's aren't hitting this hard. If you want to argue at higher lvls when he can max his E and his Q, that's a point where everyone is doing the same, maxing more than 1 ability, reaching near to full builds, ect, and as you say yourself becomes a moot point. If he uses it, wether the trade went his way or not, he still pays the mana cost (very high) and gets the cooldown.

Plus, if he wants the slow, or the larger AoE, he has to wait on his Pole and drop naturally to get it. If Fizz activates Tricker, he hops off the pole, his AoE is much smaller, and he doesn't apply the slow. The risk and drawback is the skill expression in landing Playful, which is harder, as opposed to landing Trickster, which is easier but less rewarding. Walk out of his E AoE and stop standing in it. The "rest of his kit's damage" only comes with Items and Skill Points. Only his E has a good Base dmg value.

Everyone here has seen a fizz throw his ult and flip simultaneously and destroy your HP in 0.0 seconds. I have an actual screenshot of him doing 2.3K in 0.0 on a match i wasn't behind on.

No one has seen that. That is hyperbole. That's akin to saying "Ashe Ult is op because it does two billion dmg" It's wrong, it's silly, it's exageratted, and no one is going to take you seriously or put any weight or validity to your arguments. This doesn't serve your debate at all, so don't do stuff like this.

The reason i mention his Untargetable status with his ult because it renders him invincible from tower damage as well.

So does Vlad's W pool. Akali's Shroud did the same thing, actually it used to be worse! Yasuo's R puts him out side of Turret range. Pantheon's PASSIVE can block a Turret shot, and it resets on each W and every 3-4 auto's/Q's. Oh, might as well say any champ with Untargetability can do the same thing, because they can. Zhonya's can be bought by anyway. Stopwatch is even cheaper. What is your point?

Its problem is the Invaun status when he uses it, The fact hes completely invincible in the two seconds hes moving makes it too OP.

It's essential to his Kit. It's his escape. An assassin without an Escape either needsd durability to poke and all in, or the raw damage to burst down their target before they blow up. If Fizz didn't have Untargetability on his E, Riot would compensate his loss of abiilty to get out of a Fight or drop the back line but frontloading more dmg onto him. So he can succeed at taking out his target, and then he dies.

I still have more to say, I want to type up closing thoughts on how and why Fizz is managable and isn't problematic. And if anything, the issue with him isn't on his E at all. All of Fizz's moves are skill shots and can be dodged except for his W. You can dash or flash or use any kind of hop or such to actually avoid his Q, and it should be clear that it's possible to dodge the AoE of his E or the linear skill shot of his R.

But before I type up anymore I want to give you a window to read what I've said so far, and to respond.

Saianna1 votes

Two things wrong with this so far: Fizz is NOT invulnerable during Play/Trickster.

This is just some nitpicking.

The second thing wrong, is that his E has no drawbacks, when in fact it has more than one. First off, simply using it means that he won't be able to use it again for (at best, maxed rank and cd) 12 seconds.

this is just pain stupid. Every ability, without any CD resets, once used goes on cooldown. It's not a drawback.

Not gonna bother reading the rest, cause i'm not even all that interested in the topic.

SirHydro1 votes

Some abilities have no Mana costs (Energy) Some abilities have NO cost (Think Garen) Some abilities have such low cooldown/mana costs there is no drawback to using them. So.........yes. It is a drawback. Power budget going into a high cooldown expensive move has a drawback, where low budget spammable moves don't have much if any drawback. Hence them being spammable.

You admit to being wrong and refusing to inform yourself. I appreciate you for reading what you did, and trying. I'm not saying Fizz isn't annoying, or a turd to kill. Have a nice day.

Saianna2 votes

I still disagree with you calling a ability going on CD a drawback. It makes no sense no matter how you'll try to dress it.

SirHydro1 votes

I admire and respect your ability to disagree with me without insulting me. Have a nice day =)

Darknesshas11 votes

Fizz is NOT invulnerable during Play/Trickster. Things like Ignite, Malzahar Maelefic Visions, Teemo and Cass's dot poison, Karma's W tether Lb's tether, will still damage Fizz while he's UNTARGETABLE.

This is nitpicking, Its also known as a strawman, a type of logical fallacy you use thru the rest of this post

It also costs (gasp) mana. A looot of mana

Everyone has mana concerns, That doesn't mean anything past level 6, once you start building items. If you have mana problems you either gonna build a mana item, or bring Manaflow band, sometimes both. Its a standard part of gameplay to adjust for your characters weaknesses.

Rengar's ult has no drawback, since he can use it and not even have to go in to affect the enemy team, thus no drawback, no risk. Fizz's E has risk. So really, this is a poor example for you to use.

Rengars base Ult cooldown is 100 seconds without CDR. Fizz's E's base cooldown is 16 seconds. Some quick math means unless Rengars ult is more than 6.25 times more powerful than Fizz's E Its still about equal to his E.

_Ekko doesn't become Untargetable, or Invulnerable during his ult. It's a blink, and a heal, and his sheild is probably involved, and it nukes for massive damage. _

Ekko in the exact moment he presses R gains a gold health bar preventing him from dying in that moment. The description of his ability reads

"After 0.75 seconds, Ekko travels to his hologram's location, becoming untargetable during the transportation, dealing magic damage to surrounding enemies on arrival and power healing himself."

So to paraphrase you earlier "The fact that you believe this is evidence how very little you know about Ekko"

So Rek'sai's R out performs Fizz's E. And it's her Ult. Seems fair.

Reksai's Base cooldown is again 100 seconds. Rek'sai's ult on the other hand is not 6 times more powerful than Fizz's E in anything other than range. Doesn't seem as fair now, huh.

Her ult grants her a sheild and a massive gap closer. However, it neither makes her Untargetable nor Invulnerable. She gains Stealth on evolved E, but at no point does Kai'sa beecome Invulnerable. Again, you demonstrate your lack of knowledge of the game, and are talking about things you don't understand.

I said these character have "two maybe 3 of these effects as their ULTIMATES" Its a gap closer and allows her to burst for massive damage, therefore 2 of the aforementioned benefits.

_ Xayah using R has even less drawback then Fizz using his E. I'll also use this chance to mention Fizz's E mana costs are on part with Ultimates._

The problem was never mana concerns. The problem is he has this ult like ability that's 8.75 times better than anyone else's ultimate(Compared to Xayahs ult this time). And to mention it again, Mana consumption is not a drawback on a character for anything more than early game. Conservation is an inherent part of gameplay.

He does not become Untargetable. Impairing the enemies vision with Darkness does not remove their ability to target him within range.

Nearsighted is a massive debuff, It prevents any autotargeting abilities outside of the reduced visual range, blocking things like Cait and Shens ultimates, The use of teleport on minions, and other vision reliant abilities.

It is, however, a gnarly gap closer! It's ten times the Gap Closer that Fizz's E is

It also happens to be almost 10 times the base cooldown of fizz's E, making it useful once a fight, if they can burst faster than anyone unfriendly near your target can. Its harder to use in teamfights as anything but an engage or a kill catcher as someones fleeing the fight, Something that will get you killed depending on how the fight turned out.

So does Vlad's W pool. Akali's Shroud did the same thing, actually it used to be worse! Yasuo's R puts him out side of Turret range. Pantheon's PASSIVE can block a Turret shot, and it resets on each W and every 3-4 auto's/Q's. Oh, might as well say any champ with Untargetability can do the same thing, because they can. Zhonya's can be bought by anyway. Stopwatch is even cheaper. What is your point?

Vlads and Akali's W's dont do burst damage. Yasuo's R can still get him stuck under tower for 2 shots, and Pantheons passive can be circumvented by just hitting him before the tower shot lands. Fizz on the other hand can dive and flash out having taken no damage and spending comparable less mana and time. Panth is still gonna take about 12 seconds to reset his passive unless hes mid combat.

No one has seen that. That is hyperbole. That's akin to saying "Ashe Ult is op because it does two billion dmg" It's wrong, it's silly, it's exageratted, and no one is going to take you seriously or put any weight or validity to your arguments. This doesn't serve your debate at all, so don't do stuff like this.

This one is in no way hyperbole, The screenshot was several years ago (about two or three if i remember) and was a combination of him landing his E and R (and maybe Q) simultaneously in late game, I was playing sivir with full build, Back then she only had about 1.8k late game bc the health meta used to be lower. I was trying to find the picture but i cant because of the some 11k memes (That's not an exaggeration) piled up on my old computer. Ill try to track the screenshot down but that was in no way an exaggeration, That one legitimately happened.

SirHydro1 votes

*No one has seen that. That is hyperbole. That's akin to saying "Ashe Ult is op because it does two billion dmg" It's wrong, it's silly, it's exageratted, and no one is going to take you seriously or put any weight or validity to your arguments. This doesn't serve your debate at all, so don't do stuff like this.

This one is in no way hyperbole,*

You cannot do 2,300 dmg in 0.0 seconds. It is hyperbole. I gave you a chance, and it's clear now you're just an unskilled player that has no idea what they are talking about. The rest of your retort is riddled with logical fallacies. You don't even know what a Starwman is, you incorrectly claim I'm using one in my points. Sorry, but it seems you think a strawman is a "Clever way of winning an argument" but unfortunately it requires you to A) Know what a Strawman is and B) Your opponent actually using one. You don't understand what it is, and I never used one.

May you get rekt by Fizz every game you face him, since you refuse to improve =)

[sg-lulu]

Darknesshas11 votes

It can happen in 0.0 seconds bc the game rounds the time down. it was his Ult and his E timed together. The physical timing may have been a fluke on his part or a bug in the game but the death screen registered 0.0. Also, Fizz 2 years ago was even worse than he was now, his Q and W were effectively useless when compared to his E at the time. The meta was to max e first and build an Archangel staffitem 3003

xDogMeatx2 votes

build MR/hp items before fizz's "rework" 'cough cough' nerf on his W full build/combo on him deals at max 4.5k HP at 100 MR i tested it on practice tool before his "rework". so yeah build those 2 stats and you will be able to resist his damage easily. more easier now than before sadly im a fizz main the changes hurt me so much.

Darknesshas12 votes

thats too hard for most mid laners to do. Its not a tank heavy lane like top and bot

xDogMeatx1 votes

you just need one currently since as i said earlier on the fizz hardcore nerf it pooped too much on his main damage output if he doesnt auto you he is gonna do baby damage vs someone with heavy MR for example. item 3102 item 3111 item 3065 item 3151 item 3165 are just examples of a personally irritation items to me as a fizz main im giving you the secret to killing him plus his E is mana hungry in the beginning if you see him spamming that it has long cd and high mana cost. you will outlast him this way. he will 100% cant kill you anymore if hes doing this himself.

Bronzsuo1 votes

I played Bard mid before, he too OP, plz nerf.

Saianna1 votes

I always believed Fizz E should only give him some damage reduction, lets say 30%. The gap closing Zhyonya on 4-5s CD once maxed is just ridiculous for an assassin that has his power budged loaded mostly into Q, W and lichbane.

JackMcSnipeyz1 votes

Wtf id this iron iv tier thread? People making so many out of context points to make themselves seem right.

People say zhonyas is broken. Fizz has a zhonyas built into his kit.

Might aswell nerf every champion with invulnerability ult, and nerf bard 10x times because his ult can zhonyas 10 people at once.

If you blow your entire kit on Fizz before he uses E, over and over and over, then you deserve to get "outplayed".

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