Item Idea to Make Pure Tanks Attractive

Icy Auron·2/17/2015, 8:07:31 PM·2 votes·1,027 views

Right now, pure tanks are in a rough spot. Aside from Rammus and tank supports, there really isn't any incentive to be a pure tank. Sure, you'll be tankier than fighters, but fighters get the pleasure of using good AD items made just for their role (ex. Hydra, Black Cleaver) while also building pretty tanky. Tanky AP champs are forced to use defensive mage items if they want any form of damage (which they need to keep up with fighters), and while that sounds fine on paper, mages are based around entirely different parameters. For example, if a mage wants mana, they look at item 3027, item 3003, item 3174, and/or item 3165. Unholy Grail doesn't provide a lot in the way of defense, and Morello's grants absolutely nothing. AAS takes a lot of time to build, and is also a glass item. RoA is a great item, but takes time to stack, on top of you needing jungle items (for junglers, anyway). Mana tanks require a lot of mana, so you're basically forced into getting a RoA if you wanna have any late game damage without sacrificing damage. Due to the way that RoA works, you need to get it as your first real item. This limits build options for any tanky AP champs who have any mana problems (Maokai (you don't give someone four decent AP ratios and expect him to build no AP), Malphite, etc.).

Even RoA isn't enough. You then have to build some defensive items, and if you need MR (item 3065 is the likely option, but all of the MR items apply to this point), you have no mana options (unless you count Unholy Grail...). If you need armor, you can at least get item 3025 and/or item 3110. So even assuming you're facing an entirely physical damage dealing team, your core is still three completed items including boots, with no little room for situational building (again, need RoA first). Instead of forcing poor tanks to get RoA (or face mana problems), I propose an item similar to the following, allowing tanks to build defensive first, and consider AP items like item 3001 later.

Apprentice's Plate item 3024 + item 3211 + X gold 200 HP, 250 mana (MP), 20 armor, 35 MR, 10% CDR, and the Cowl's +150% health regen passive on taking champion damage. This provides a medium item without being forced to finish an entire item to start getting the effects. It also provides no form of damage, so it wouldn't be attractive on fighters. Also, many of them don't care about MP, so that's another reason why I think it'd specifically fit tanks. Finally, it has no aura. So even though it provides all three defensive stats, it only helps you. This makes it less than ideal on supports.

Master Mail Apprentice's Plate + item 3801 + item 1029 + Y gold 400 HP 300 MP 40 armor 40 MR 10% CDR 150% health regen UNIQUE Passive: 35% Tenacity

At first glance, it might seem like a bundle of stats, but take note of a few things. First of all, it gives a lot of stats, but not a lot of any of them (save health regen). This means that it'd be useful as an early item if you're looking to cover your bases, but not as effective as any dedicate defensive item, such as item 3110 or item 3065. In fact, this doesn't even grant as much armor as item 3025, and that's an offensive item for tanky AP champs. It gives you a base to work with, but you need more items to get really tanky. In fact, this wouldn't even solve the mana issues that I mentioned in the beginning of the post.

TLDR: Pure tanks need a new item, otherwise, fighters will almost always be "almost as tanky with less utility, but have tons of damage in comparison," rendering most pure tanks effectively useless.

24 Comments

Raise Dongrs2/17/2015, 8:19:43 PM3 votes

To make pure tanks attractive, you've just gotta put them in sexy underwear Shen Maokai Rammus it's getting steamy in here Braum Sion Malphite

Edit; It might actually be getting steamy Sejuani Shyvana Leona

TehNACHO2/17/2015, 8:28:54 PM2 votes

I would just like to point out that not all Fighters' build paths optimize for damage, like for example Dr. Mundo, a 6 tank item champion who's role and function is more identical to Fighters. This is because Mundo's main source of damage, his Cleavers, are (sans CDR) impossible to optimize. Other than maybe Sorcerer's Shoes, there is no item that doesn't waste stats or even affect his Cleavers at all that Mundo can try to build. It does however, scale really well on time. This means if you get as tanky as possible, therefore living longer and throwing more Cleavers in the process, you can optimize his Cleavers. Hence, 6 tank items Mundo, a Fighter that wants to optimize for damage but can only do so by building tanky.

I point this out because this really is the heart of the tank vs fighter problem. Fighters want tank items the most, not Tanks. Slot efficient items means that Fighters can either afford damage items if they need them Renekton or get as tanky as possible DrMundo. High end items mean that Fighters scale well Irelia. Mid game items capitalizes on their power spikes Darius. You almost can't optimize for tanks by making items primarily for the purpose of tanking, as Fighters want them more.

In my opinion, if you really want true tanks to receive the benefits of a good itemization path, you need to optimize for utility. Most Fighters would never buy a Righteous Glory unless they are fed and way ahead, but I guarantee you that actual tanks really like this item. Why? This item is so stat inefficient, the only thing that makes it special is its active ability. Well, that's the point. Being stat inefficient scares most Fighters from buying this item, but Tanks? Oh man, the utility of its active ability is near unmatched, tanks are successful with this item.

Honestly, I can't agree with your post. These items don't make tanks more attractive, it just gives Fighters mid game item and another Tenacity option for more varied build paths.

Orangesilk2/17/2015, 9:03:58 PM2 votes

What tanks need is an item that ONLY dedicated tanks can build, as it is, a generalized defensive item would be what tanky Pantheon would rush after his cleaver.

There has been an idea going around of an item which only grants %Bonus defensive stats, kind of like a tank Rabbadons, think something along the lines of S4 SotAG.

30% bonus armor 30% bonus MR 30% bonus HP

Something along those lines, that only becomes efficient when you have 4-5 tank items, and that allows you to scale into the lategame like a Rabbadons mage or an Infinity Edge ADC.

H2OWNED2/17/2015, 11:56:42 PM2 votes

To make Pure tanks more attractive. Bring back old Warmogs, the one with stacks, and bring back Force of Nature. also heart of gold.

RedCyclone2/17/2015, 8:31:53 PM1 votes

Was thinking of a item to make for full tanks, then I stopped and thought "This just adds the the problem"

anyway, the idea was a tank item what had a active short blink , but the champion would have to absorb a certain amount of damage before they were able to use it

Gunpoint2/17/2015, 8:28:31 PM1 votes

To make a good pure tank champion Riot needs to give them really good base offensive stats and ability damage with low offensive scaling and low offensive AD/AP ratios, paired with okay base defense stats with really good defensive scaling and mabye some Armor/MR/HP ratios on their abilities.

SmokingPuffin2/17/2015, 9:00:10 PM1 votes

Items that give armor and MR are a big no-no. You don't want a champion's core item path to simultaneously harden against both types of damage.

Your proposed items are hilariously broken on Ryze, which tends to be the problem with every mana+defense item.

In general, itemization will not solve the problems tanks have. The core issue is that the damage on bruisers is worth more than the utility and CC on tanks.