Why not nerf champions above 50% ban rate?

PerfectPower·11/30/2018, 3:29:30 AM·27 votes·11,058 views

So if a champion is being banned as much or more than they're being picked, that isn't healthy for anybody. The mains or people who like to play the champion don't get to play them in draft pick most of the time, which just sucks. Also, there are reasons people ban champions: either they're a counter pick to their own champion, broken, or extremely annoying. Champions with above 50% ban rate most likely fit into the last 2 categories.

Therefore, wouldn't it be good to just nerf these champions until they have below 50% ban rate?

Currently I'm talking about (based off op.gg):

And maybe:

41 Comments

Salamencę11/30/2018, 4:29:27 AM30 votes

Frustrating ≠ Overpowered

UnboundHades11/30/2018, 3:31:57 AM17 votes

a champ being banned doesnt mean that they are overpowered it just means that people dont want to learn to play against them

Starcraft243ver11/30/2018, 9:35:04 AM5 votes

The goal is not to make the champion frustrating to play, it's to make the champion NOT frustrating to play against. That's where the balancing is tricky.

A high banrate doesnt mean a champion is too strong, it means the champion is frustrating to play against.

Z3Sleeper11/30/2018, 1:40:38 PM5 votes

3 of those are being touched on PBE. Riot actually does nerf based on banrate. We've seen it plenty of times in the past.

However recently they had some kind of hard-on for Akali Irelia Leblanc and refused to touch them. All the sudden now they decide to touch on all 3.

Glad to see they're finally addressing them, but I've lost even more confidence in the integrity of this balance team because of how long it took and how "coincidentally" all 3 are being addressed at once rather then having been addressed sooner individually. I refuse to believe that all 3 of them coincidentally happened to be "on the radar" just recently.

420 grams11/30/2018, 4:57:59 AM4 votes

Next you'll be saying champs like Kalista arent in a good spot and could use literally anything to help them. Nice try OP

Saezio11/30/2018, 12:13:12 PM4 votes

Yasuo ban rates plummet if you check masters and challenger games, it's just that he is banned a lot in low elo. Champs should be nerfed based on pickrate combined with winrate. So the rest of your examples are pretty accurate.

Saezio11/30/2018, 12:22:47 PM4 votes

You are leaving out a huge reason to why ban rates can be that high. Some champions specialise at dealing with a specific class of champions and if that class of champions is popular then the ban rates of previous champion will just be high.

Example : Many people like to play ranged mages mid, which are countered by yasuo so yasuo has a high banrate even though its piss easy to beat him by simply picking literally any bruiser, people would rather ban even as last pick than play something they didn't plan to. Example : A lot of supports like to play squishy enchanters, so its only natural that they ban stuff like thresh or pyke or ali. Don't mean they are OP it means they counter the most popular role choice for that position.

Woodakoodashooda11/30/2018, 6:05:18 AM4 votes

Champions with high pick rates are champions with high ban rates. It has little or nothing to do with how powerful the champion is as opposed to how popular it is. It makes tactical sense to ban popular choices because you are likely eliminating an opponenet's first choice, likely placing them at or near tilt while simultaneously forcing them to play a substitute champion. Doing so increases your chance of winning.

People aren't simply blowing smoke out of their asses when they say winning begins at champion select.

Ban rates are not guaranteed to drop for champions Riot nerfs, especially if the champions remain popular picks even after their nerfs. And it should not be Riot's place to directly influence player picks and bans.

hewhodoesnotcare11/30/2018, 2:50:16 PM2 votes

Don't want a yasuo on my team ever. Feeds n flame. Enemy yasuo is somehow, 20/0 at 5min

OneMustFall11/30/2018, 1:00:14 PM2 votes

These topics...

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

flibitydoo11/30/2018, 10:57:40 PM2 votes

It's because a lot of people ban purely on recommendation or what they see other players ban. And many ban based off fotm (or what they lost to last game).

Even before 10 bans was a thing, you'd get in 25% of your games, someone who was "hey who do I ban" on first pick.

In season 3, Kassadin had a 90% banrate, but he had less than a 50% winrate the entire season. People banned him to the point where even if someone picked him, they wouldn't know how to play him and they'd actually drag their team down and lose. Even in bronze he had a 90% banrate and had a less than 40% winrate there because people's logic at the time was "well, everyone else bans him in every other game, he must be doing something even if I don't know what it is".

Espy Psyche11/30/2018, 11:08:42 PM2 votes

"Because nerfing them doesn't generally make them less frustrating. You have to rework the [annoying] parts of their kit."

Imagine a world where Akali still had her same shroud and mobility, but her basic attacks and abilities all did 70% reduced damage to champions (dealing one quarter of her current damage would be 75% reduced damage -- 70% reduced damage is slightly more damage than a quarter of what she does now). Would she be frustrating to play against? No, because all the shroud and mobility in the world won't make her annoying to play against if it takes her ten years to kill you. You just disregard her entirely and kill objectives and she can't do anything to stop you if she deals no damage.

Same with Irelia, Kayn, Leblanc, Fizz...the list goes on and on.

Would anyone care about Irelia's mobility, disarm, or damage reduction if she did no damage and couldn't kill you? Would anyone care about Kayn's phasing through walls, speed, or drain tanking if he couldn't kill you? Would anyone care about Leblanc's evasiveness and play pattern if she couldn't kill you? Would anyone care about Fizz's engage range and troll pole if he couldn't kill you?

Or think about this one then?

How many people complain about the slow and knockback of Corki's Package? How many people care about how much CC Zac has, or how far away he can engage from/how he can gank from absurd places that you can't realistically ward? How many people are frustrated with how Kalista can save her support from certain death all the time? How many people hate how Cassiopeia can run you down easily while doing damage without even needing to buy boots?

The answer is, not many. Even if you find yourself in that position because you played against one in a game that was really good, you ban them for a few games until you run into one of the above mentioned popular annoying champions that dumpsters you and then you swap back to banning the popular one, because there's only a Cassio in 2 games out of 1500.

Every champion has annoying elements to their kit. But if the rest of their kit is bad, they still don't see play and nobody bitches about them. Nerf them into oblivion. It'll make them way less annoying even if they still have whatever made them annoying.

KingBlackthorn111/30/2018, 7:18:12 PM1 votes

I do not think win rate should mean nerfing the champion. I do agree that the characters you listed need nerfs, but like when new runes are added, when a rune is reworked, when new items, when items are reworked it buffs/nerfs characters. So win rate should not always mean character nerf.

Eleshakai11/30/2018, 7:24:18 PM1 votes

Because nerfing them doesn't generally make them less frustrating.

You have to rework the parts of their kit.

Pika Fox12/1/2018, 12:29:58 AM1 votes

Ban rates mean nothing. They arent indicative of power, and players often ban what they dont like to play against more than what they should actually be banning going into the game. (IE, if youre a leona and youre not banning thresh, alistar or morgana, the hell is wrong with you?)

Also, as others have stated, people ban based on what other people say and ban. People bandwagon.

Also if you dont know what the enemy team will play, banning a popular champ like yasuo or riven or irelia is a safe ban. Banning a new skin champ is a safe ban as well, as people will want to play those champions more.

taleofsonata12/1/2018, 1:02:50 AM1 votes

Zed Akali and Yasuo are the most banned champion, even more than Leblanc and pyke

FourVsFive11/30/2018, 6:38:50 PM1 votes

I ban blitz because 1 grab turns the game into 4v5.

Sillae11/30/2018, 6:49:11 PM1 votes

Honestly I think they need reworks, not nerfs.