Currently, i feel like Liandry is a good, niche pick. It isn't really good on alot of champ because until you have a way to always proc the passive or the double damage, the price doesn't feel good for the stats. If we compare 
with all legenday tier item, 50 ap is pretty low.
80 Ap would make it more of a good buy, and worth on more champ.
honestly, I think the best change to liandri's is to give it's passive a base dmg. It's so frustrating seeing 0 dmg pop up 6 times on a low hp target.
Something like 20 flat dmg over 3 secs + it's percentage should be fine
Oh god no, maybe increase it to 60 to be on par with Athene's but putting it at 80 removes the main dissuading reason not to buy it.
There is no MPen item that gives 80 ap, and for a reason. It would be broken and mandatory on all champions.
80 is a bit much. 60 would be nice.
Let's all take a moment to appreciate the fact that Liandry's Torment is almost exactly as cost-efficient as Blade of the Ruined King, but BotRK is considered the core, offensive Lifesteal item while Liandry's is a niche, almost DoT-only pick.
On the other hand, let's also take a moment to appreciate the existence of Brand, Swain, Malzahar and Cassiopeia, who would probably hellishly abuse a buffed Liandry's.
The item isn't so much meant for casters anymore as much as it is for AP based DoT Mages/Tanks. It failed to fulfill the initial intentions for it but was kept around anyway since it added more power to the aforementioned champions who were underpowered at the moment and added power in a way that didn't involve AP ratio or base damage increases. The concept for Liandry's Torment was to add a way to let single target mages and mages with high cooldowns more consistently contribute to teamfights, a concept later reworked into what we just recently received 
.
So if Liandry's were to receive buffs at all they would be geared towards the Tank or DoT specs (via Health buff or DoT buff).
Giving it a higher ratio, would make champs (
< this guy especially) wayyyyyyyy to broken. He can proc the 4% with soooooo much ease. Combine that with his E, that makes you take more damage, his snare and his ult, that is a form of DoT, and it would be to easy. is usally my 2 or 3 item (after Roa and Boots). This would give him, 160 ap, a bunch of health for his massive sustain, 30% magic pen, percent health damage on a top lane bully, and that is a perfect chance for riot to gut him.
The mistake that people make is to give this item to champs that should build full ap and such. I have seen 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, even 
build this, and for them , 50 ap sucks. They want the Magic pen, but 50 ap does nothing, and they will never use the passive as they are burst champs. What I suggest is that they make another item that build out of 
, for these champs that want the magic pen, but do not use the passive of that much.
the reason liandries has low AP is because blade of the ruined king has 25... increasing it makes it almost too necessary, why take other stuff when u can have that? it fits a good niche
I think its a really strong item.
In 3s
And niche items are fine not every item needs to be required for a build every game
/ 
because its designed to be a tank shred item not an ap burst item, its the same reason why 
only has 25 ad and 
only has 40
Nah, it's fine. It's supposed to be a niche, for dots ,tanks or Mpen-builds. If you buff it, the champions that already use that item will be way stronger. ( Seju, amumu, brand, ...). Reduce the stat on it, but make it % max health could be pretty cool, but good luck to balance that.
Liandry's needs to be total health, not current. It's retarded how little it does.. (although its still underwhelming if they're full hp too)
If someone has 5k hp , and u have liandrys + rylais, it'll only do 200 dmg per second with the passive. And then they have MR and it'll only hit like 75. I'd rather have more ap, like luden's echo or zhonyas and do way more than that 75 tick will ever do. Especially on squishies.
The AP isn't what is weak, it's the passive.
The good comparison is the one with BotRK, which gives few stats because it has an amazing passive and active component. Just increase the damage the passive does by either adding a base, scaling it with AP, or changing it to max health
Yes please
80 ap might be a bit high, but an increase definitely feels appropriate.
I dunno, it gives health, AP, and magic pen alongside a passive. That's pretty good for what it costs.
15 magic pen might not be that amazing, but can mean a lot against non-tanks (who generally have a base of 30, not counting runes). It's kind of like ghostblade, which gives AD, crit, cdr, armor pen, and a decent active. Well-rounded, not too specialized in one stat. Decent.
When 15 magic penetration & DoT isn't enough.
Strongly disagree with making it have higher AP. If anything I think the passive should be stronger and be a function of bonus health. It's a niche item by design, which means that it should not be effective outside of its niche. Putting 80 AP on it would be having your cake and eating it too.
that will make this item just to strong, 15 mpen and 50 ap plus passive is already worth enough in the right hands (ffs stop rushing on ap burst/assassins like or they are supposed to burst not to dps, liandrys on assassins only late game if the enemy is stacking hp and mr up to a lv that 
+ 
's pen isnt enough).
isn't that bad of an item. You obviously wouldn't want to build it on assassins that need to finish their job quickly and need other items such as , 
or , but more traditional poke/AoE mages such as 
, 
or 
and the obvious candidates (
) can get a lot of value out of it by being able to quickly force a formerly full health team to back off. Now that tanks are becoming a thing again, there is bound to be at least one target where it will be able to deal a lot of damage.
I'd say Liandry's is in a pretty good spot right now.
I thought the lower AP was offset by the fact that it given MPen? I am not saying don't change it, but you don't even mention the reasons why it might have a low AP to begin with.
I'm on the side that making it higher would actually hurt a lot of people, as that would make several champions over powered that do use it.
That's way too much of a buff. We can start with 10, but definitely not 30.
They should give it a stacking %mr shred, like with black cleaver. Each spell cast on an enemy champion reduces magic resist by 5%. Can stack up to 6 times. Stacks go away if the target has not received damage from champions in 7 seconds.
Buffing its AP would simply move it away from its niche and into a more generalized item
If Liandry's needs a buff it would be to its unique passive effect
Maybe reduce the damage it does, but make it deal true damage? That way it would be a REAL tank killer item while still being inefficient versus squishies
But then again, constant true damage from the likes of Swain, Brand and Malzahar might be a bad idea... lol
I fear that would make the item to strong:
V3.02:
- Ability power reduced to 50 from 60.
- Damage per second increased to 2% from 1.66%.
- Damage-over-time and multi-target spells no longer have reduced effect.
- Fixed damage effect not being properly reapplied on targets that already have it.
V1.0.0.154:
- Health increased to 300 from 200.
- Ability power reduced to 60 from 70.
If whe want a more expanded build patch their are a fell problems with this:
has 25 AP & 200 HP
currently gives 20 AP#OPTION I
- UNIQUE Passive - EYES OF PAIN: +10 magic penetration (from 15 mpen)
- Combine cost reduced to 415 (from 650)
- Cost reduced to 1250 (from 1485)
- UNIQUE Passive - EYES OF PAIN: +10 magic penetration (from 15 mpen)
- UNIQUE PASSIVE: Dealing spell damage applies a damage-over-time effect that deals bonus magic damage equal to 3% of the target's current health per second for 3 seconds. This bonus damage is doubled against movement-impaired units and capped at 100 damage per second vs. monsters. (from 2%)
- New recipe:
(from
- Ability power increased to 80 (from 50)
- Combine cost reduced to 890 (from 980)
- Cost increased to 3000 (from 2900)
#OPTION II
- UNIQUE PASSIVE: Dealing spell damage applies a damage-over-time effect that deals bonus magic damage equal to 4% of the target's current health per second for 3 seconds. This bonus damage is
doubled against movement-impaired units andcapped at 100 damage per second vs. monsters. (from 2%)
- New recipe:
(from
- Ability power increased to 60 (from 50)
- Combine cost reduced to 665 (from 980)
- Cost increased to 3000 (from 2900)
#OPTION III
- UNIQUE PASSIVE: Dealing spell damage applies a damage-over-time effect that deals bonus magic damage equal to 4% of the target's current health per second for 3 seconds. This bonus damage is
doubled against movement-impaired units andcapped at 100 damage per second vs. monsters. (from 2%)- New recipe:
(from
- Ability power increased to 60 (from 50)
- Now gives 10% Cooldown Reduction
- Combine cost reduced to 695 (from 980)
- Cost increased to 3000 (from 2900)
The problem is that buffing it makes it an insane pick on the champs that liked its niche value. Plus, against even an unslowed 1000HP target (normal mid-game), you are getting the equivalent of a 100% AP-scaled 20AP burn with every spell, which is better than you could ask with a lot of AP items IMO.
EDIT: Forgot that was a current-health burn, not a max-health one. So they'd have to have 1000HP currently to bring it up to quasi-70 AP (which looks to be the average for anything built out of a Blasting Wand).
(I don't play mages that much [but frickin love Teemo]. If I'm wrong about this, could someone please explain why? Thanks!)
60 ap and give it a flat damage of 5, just so that it's actually doing damage when they're extremely low. I hate those 0's that just pop up. Any higher than 5 would be crazy because someone thinks they get away, then Liandry's secures a kill! Mini-ignite!
