The Ranking System

LoserPlaysLeague·Mar 11, 2018·14 votes·1,921 views

Let me set one thing straight; I love the game mechanics, love the champion pool, and I love playing League of Legends. There is just one thing about this game that tilts me to hell and back: The way you climb in ranked.

What is it about this system that makes it so hard to climb? The answer is simple, it's a team game. Now I didn't say that I disliked league having a cooperative play style, and in theory, it works. However, being that league has five people on each team that gives you four other people who you need to rely on in order to win. it does not happen every game, but every once in a while you end up getting a player who has no idea how to lane, they feed into their pick, or they just straight up troll. I had lost one of my promos after a Kayle top decided to feed because someone had called her bad, and right after that game I got into another where an Annie ran it down mid and afk'd 8 minutes in. I understand these things happen, and I know it happens more so in lower elo where climbing is made harder than it should be. But in both of these games, not a single other person on our team did poorly. We almost won 4v5, and, had Annie not left the game, we might have won.

The question I want to propose is this:** Should players lose LP even if they did well themselves?** Let me explain this a bit. First of all, your rank in League of Legends is a reflection on how well you play the game, not how well your team does. I've lost games where I've gone 13/2/17 just because our ADC would get caught out, or our Top Lane would suicide split push as Maokai or some other hyper-tank. I would still lose the same amount of LP even if I went 0/17/3. Even in the reverse situation, had I won a game going 0/17/3 I would gain the same amount of LP as a 13/2/17 player on my team. You might be thinking, 'It's only one game,' but in reality it isn't. I haven't been playing league for too long, around a year now, but coming from other games this system seems very lacking. Yes, league is a team game, but since Solo/Duo matches you with three to four random other players then some games will be out of your control. Ranked flex is an option, but it still follows the same "Win a game - gain LP, Lose a game - lose LP" format. To me, this doesn't really show how you perform as an individual player.

So how should this be fixed? Honestly, there is no real solution. League is a team game, and you have to learn to deal with and work around people. But is there no hope for our 'Elo Hell'? I have thought about this issue after every loss. Some losses, I did deserve; others, well that is debatable. The point here is that the only option you have in order to climb is the 'Win a game - gain LP, Lose a game, lose LP' style. It doesn't help players who got stuck with poor teammates. My idea, or whatever you would like to call it, is to add on a third option for ranked. In this ranked queue, win or loss would not matter as much as individual performance. Instead, your KDA, Creep Score, Kill Participation, and Damage, Healing done, and Damage Taken would be used as a factor for LP gain instead of just winning or losing. This would not replace the old ranked system, rather be an alternative for players who would prefer a more individualistic ranked system. I can see I few issues with it, but no system is without flaws. First, it might make more KDA players. In order to aid with this the system would have to take all factors on the scoreboard into account, and not just KDA. It could factor in your percent of damage output compared to your team; the damage you healed for your team, or the damage you tanked compared to the rest of your team. Other factors such as Kill Participation and such would help set the players who really earned the win apart from the players who were just there for the ride. Another Issue would be balancing it for tanks, DPS, and healers respectively. The only way I can see this system working is by using the stats at the end of the game to calculate LP growth. That way, it can focus on almost every aspect of the game, and how much work a player actually put in. The game calculates a lot more about our match than we think. It even offers a vision and crowd control score based on your performance. By using these, as well as every other stat mentioned after game, the ranked system can then change your LP or rank accordingly. I am not a coding expert, and I have no idea how hard it would be to implement this system, or if it is even possible.

I know I did a poor job explaining my idea thoroughly, but I still want to hear your opinion on this matter. Should the ranked system be updated? Feel free to use the poll or comment your own ideas.

Thank you for reading.

31 Comments

GripaAviaraMar 12, 20185 votes

MMR should not exist, games should be solely based on leagues. This thing will filter out the bullshit that is silver atm where you get to play with a s1 way weaker than a s5 which totally unbalance the system. ELO systems do not work well combined with leagues.

The game was fine a few seasons ago because it was a slow tank top meta and if you wanted to win, pick a champion like trynda, go split and gg. Now you can't really do that anymore. Which in itself in imho is a good thing, but it completly fucks the league system.

LoserPlaysLeagueMar 12, 20181 votes

MMR changes so drastically with one game too, especially at higher elo. It's increasingly hard to climb because of how fast you can drop after just 3 games. With the filter too, I've seen a gold 3 player in a game with a silver 4 player on opposite teams. Riot gives way to much flexibility for faster queue times so you could get stuck with people who are on completely different levels, skill-wise.

Not to mention players who afk and throw a whole game away, and this punishes the entire team.

Total EclipseMar 12, 20182 votes

Im going to read this post later, but "Im just going to point out that Riot has stated multiple times that the matchmaking is designed for each side to havea 50% cahnce of winning or losing......... Now, where it gets juicy,... Have you ever taken a science class about sig figs and numerical expression accuracy? Well that 50% win chance stated by Riot, they claim it to be +/- 1%. That means that, based on the hoards and hoards of statiscal data for them to use as calculations, they are TRYING to make your games a random grab bag of 50% chance to win. Im going to make this next bit brief because I want to make a whoel post about it. What we need, is tighter MMR grouping in games. MMR needs to be the sole important factor in determining who faces who, and we need to do away with autofill. I want games where everyone is within 1% rank of each other, so that its actually like fighting for a spot on the next rung of the ladder. Ive played many games recently with over a 200 point range in MMR, or ELO. This number should be much closer to 50. Riot cares more about us having a 50% chance to win then being against equally ranked opponents. This, and remove 90% of autofill as we know it. My post is going to be full of good ideas.

GripaAviaraMar 12, 20181 votes

each side to havea 50% cahnce of winning or losing

What is this joke? For the sake of argument, i will post here a game where we won to deter arguments that one sideness is only when losing because you're bad"

https://imgur.com/a/ZubdZ

How is this game a 50/50 chance?

Total EclipseMar 13, 20181 votes

Score comes down to a multitude of factors. To make a post like this, you need to look at the mmr immediately before the match was created.

5050BSMar 12, 20182 votes

They already wont do a different Q

We have been screaming for a true SoloQ for years and they wont do it.

InTheoryMar 11, 20181 votes

+1 for quality thread

LoserPlaysLeagueMar 11, 20181 votes

ooo thank you [katarina-love]

SubdueMar 11, 20181 votes

Your individual performance is captured within your rating, perhaps not in the micro sense of every single game, but in the macro sense of average game performance across a large number of games. There's no reason to to try to separate it from the team in the micro sense.

LoserPlaysLeagueMar 11, 20181 votes

What you are saying is completely true, and if you play enough games you will eventually be balanced out (To the best of the systems ability). While I do dislike the current system, I see how it would be hard to change it to fit better. I don't play much ranked, and I like to be more of a casual player. When I do play ranked though, I see a lot of games spiral out of control before they even begin. It might be more of an issue with the current meta or runes or balancing or whatever, but if the game stays this way then I would like to have an updated ranked system to attempt to focus more on individual performance every single game. I am no expert though, and this system might be a terrible idea. I just wanted to see what others thought, but thank you for commenting. I appreciate your input.

Troll for TrumpMar 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Your individual performance is captured within your rating, perhaps not in the micro sense of every single game, but in the macro sense of average game performance across a large number of games. There's no reason to to try to separate it from the team in the micro sense.

And that's annoying because it just sets you to grind for ages where you're trapped in elo hell.

I was a one-trick dar at plat last season.

This season I was floating around low gold/silver for the longest time with ~45% wr on him. It was only after I got a lucky break and bumped up MMRs that I could actually get a more representative winrate.

ChargeItDownMidMar 11, 20181 votes

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LoserPlaysLeagueMar 11, 20181 votes

Like I said, I am no expert. The current system is just infuriating at times and I wanted to see what others thought about it as well as post my own ideas. Of course there is no way to account for how well you actually did unless there is a person activity spectating every game which would be impossible, and the data is flawed after every game. However, I do think that Kill Participation and Damage/Healing/Damage Taken do have some value as compared to just a win/loss system. This is very hard to balance though because, as you said, the formula is flawed. My point with this board was to collect ideas and opinions on how a new ranked system should look. I really appreciate you taking the time to type all this up and explain to me some of the weaknesses of this system. I have put a bit of thought into it, and that's why I proposed to keep the original ranked system along with an updated version to see what happens. I mean, realistically nothing will really change, but I was just curious. Anyways, thank you very much for your input. I do believe you know more on the current ranked system than I do ahaha.

ChargeItDownMidMar 11, 20181 votes

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LoserPlaysLeagueMar 11, 20181 votes

I get where you are coming from and honestly, the current system isn't too bad. It has it's ups and downs but you are right; there is no way to make a perfect system for every player.

I left Warcraft a while ago, after the Warlords of Draenor expansion because I didn't like the direction the game was heading in. I'll have to see how the Warcraft system crashed. From what I recall, most PVP in WoW was done in groups of 2s, 3s, or 5s. The game play and PVP system would have to be relatively different as it is a different PVP concept than League of Legends. I don't see the ranked system for league changing anytime soon. If they do happen to change it, I would hope they would test it on the PBE or something first to see how it effects ranking. Even then, that would just be a select few of players and it would be hard to see the effect it would have on the millions of others.

ChargeItDownMidMar 11, 20181 votes

[deleted]

LoserPlaysLeagueMar 11, 20181 votes

Ah, lol

420 gramsMar 11, 20181 votes

People have good and bad games and kda means nothing. People playing pantheon and talon would be MUCH higher elo than say a Shen or galio player. It would also reward power farming more than macro plays, which creates a toxic environment.

I think the real problem is the mmr system. Your mmr is way too sensitive so it changes way faster than your rank, which creates "elo hell" where you can win a bunch of games in a row to climb to your promos, then start your loss streak

LoserPlaysLeagueMar 11, 20181 votes

While I do agree that people have good and bad games, I think KDA does mean something; even if it is less significant than other stats. I don't think the champion you play decides your Elo much, unless riot completely buffs a champion to a 60% winrate, but you are right that some champions perform better than others. This is more of an issue with the balancing team rather than with the ranking system though.

MMR is one of the problems that needs to be tackled, and it does suck that your MMR changes so drastically with each game, especially at higher elo when you lose a lot more than you gain per win/loss. Since league is a team game, there are some things that are completely out of your control. Riot does try to balance it out with MMR, but there is no way to properly gain MMR for your individual performance each game. Rather, it balances out over a long period of time to the best of it's ability. There will never be a perfect system where everyone is placed accordingly, but I do think the system needs an update, or something to that extent.

Anyways, thank you for reading and commenting. I really appreciate the feedback.

InTheoryMar 11, 20181 votes

I want to contribute something to your thread which I think is often overlooked. It's a problem that more often appears to happen in low elo and coin the term "Elo Hell" - a place you feel punished to be in, where you feel really bad and can't get out of even though you are convinced of not belonging there.

I think we can differentiate between two groups of players:

a) Standard Players. In low elo you could also say "bad players". This category contains players that are just in the very rank they belong because of what they a capable of. In low elo this includes players that are just "untalented" or don't want to put time and effort into game knowledge. They play casually for fun, don't care about meta or game knowledge and just want to play. That leads to low game quality, but that's absolutely ok. That what's a lowest rank is made for.

b) Then there are players with a very low frustration resistance. They tilt very fast for different reasons: playing worse as expected themselves, having teammates that are much worse than themselves or losing to the opponent or were commented on in one way or another. It doesn't always require being flamed at, but an unmindful comment can already lead to them being tilted.

The second group of players usually play better than players in their rank, but because of their tendency to tilt they often achieve similar bad results and fail to lead the team to victory. They think they are better than their environment and that they stuck in "elo hell" for no reason which further increases frustration and the overall performance.

######Of course there are also toxic players, intentional feeders and trolls but they must be banned anyway so they don't matter in that regard.

Now you have these two groups of players put together into one rank at all times, across all ranks more or less.

This is a problem hat I don't have a solution for. It won't be any better by just seperate them from each other into parallel ranks based on algorithm. If anyone has proper ideas for further investigation on this point they can of course contribute that. Maybe one does find a solution that at least improves the situation even if the problem itself persists.

LoserPlaysLeagueMar 11, 20181 votes

I don't think there is any real solution for the ranked system, as it is near impossible to balance something that large. The majority of the players in league fall into the 'lower elo' category of bronze and silver which is why they think 'elo hell' is holding them back from their games. I have a friend who is plat II(? Somewhere around there) on his main account. We wanted to see what would happen if he made a new account and played it for a whole season. So, he made a fresh new account and brought it up to level 30 (Beginning of last season) then played ranked. He mostly plays as an ADC or Top. Anyways, after he completed his promos he got placed Silver I which would make sense as you have to grind to gain elo. He played ranked for the whole season and actually ended last season placing Silver IV. He is a bit toxic, but he doesn't run it down or troll. After looking at his match history, he did fairly well in the majority of his games, but there would always be a 2/7/2 Lux mid or a 3/10/4 Yasuo top on his team. He actually ended up losing quite a bit of MMR on his new account. I don't know if he got lucky to get plat two seasons ago or if he just got extremely unlucky last season, but something is defiantly odd there.

But, there is no way to really fix this, I just wanted to see what others thought. Thanks for adding to the thread, I really appreciate the input. :)

InTheoryMar 11, 20181 votes

The thing is that everything you consider for team you have to consider for the other side as well. Him being very good means one of his opponents does appropriately worse - so that opponent is holding back one or more of their teammates.

The difference in player skill is the main reason for that problem and the mass of smurf accounts are even making it worse. It is basically a self-fulfilling prophecy. There's just that one player who's much better than the rest resulting in one opponent to be worse and immediately his 4 temates feel like being held back by bad teammates.

LoserPlaysLeagueMar 11, 20181 votes

It's hard to consider that sometimes, but it is true. Smurfs are a huge part of the problem too, but riot can't ban people for it.

I Main SwainMar 11, 20181 votes

ive said before that your letter score should be a factor in your lp gain or loss so that it factors in BOTH individual skill AND teamwork considering that both are vitally important. even from the perspective of teamwork its not really a very fair system to have whether you gain or lose progress determined entirely by whether you win or lose the match. it could be an extremely close game with both sides playing amazingly well, it could be that you played flawlessly but your tank wasnt initiating very well, but whatever the circumstances you will either win or lose lp entirely based on whether or not you win the game even if you absolutely deserved to win it. if they factor in just your letter score alone that would probably make the system far more accurate and i think we would see a lot of people quickly climb or quickly drop in rank

LoserPlaysLeagueMar 12, 20181 votes

Yeah, it's hard to balance a team game for ranked with all the factors in play, so it is easiest to just lump winning to gaining LP and losing to losing LP. I'm glad you feel that way about my proposed system :) Thanks for adding to the thread.

Total EclipseMar 13, 20181 votes

What lore said. Im just leaving this at a maybe. If anything, the letter score system would need its wrinkles taken out.

SangreDeNocheMar 12, 20181 votes

This is exactly what I've been pointing out for years and people act like it's such a blasphemy. You shouldn't be punished for doing well. If you go 99/0/99, take all objectives but nexus, and farm 9999 minions or jg creatures you still lose LP at the end of it. You're still going down even in the hypothetical best performance game.

LoserPlaysLeagueMar 12, 20181 votes

Right, and that is probably the most tilting part of league. I know it would be hard to make a perfect system, but this one focus way too much on just wins/losses.

DeloricVIMar 12, 20181 votes

Maybe they could also take your grade in mind, but they'd also have to rework the grading system a bit ~~so that it's actually possible to get M7 tokens on Jinx~~ so that it's less difficult to get high marks, since it's dependent on other players' performance on the same champion. I mean, if you're planning on in influencing rank, it better be more consistent than it is now.

I mean, I'm pretty sure it takes into account damage done, healing done, CS, KDA, etc, but no one really knows for sure. Riot would probably have to be more transparent with it, but, hey, it's an idea.

Snowman ArcMar 12, 20181 votes

I have a very good advice on how to climb above Plat: Dodge. During champ select, see your teammates KDAs, main role and winrates. If they don't seem impressive, it would be better to dodge. I had a Diamond 4 Heimerdinger with 300 games and a flat 50% winrate. I dodged it. You might think it's a coin flip, but it's not. The mindset of this player playing 300 games on one champion and having just a 50% winrate means that this player can't be trusted to win. Like, you should be one tricking a champion if you actually see decent results and positive win rates. If I'm gonna play a champ 300 times just to only win half of these games, might as well play something else so that you find better luck.

TTv KoddokMar 12, 20181 votes

Honestly the ranked system should be more strict with the people you can play with. No more silver 3 jg with a bronze 4 top. mid, and ad against a team of silver 1s - gold 2s.