The defensive masteries blow.

Seriously. The other options in the same slot as conditioning are completely fucking useless because they give resistances early, where they have lower value. Characters don't have enough health before 10 minutes to make the early armor or MR worth while, and the numbers aren't large enough to make a difference anyway.

The secondary slot has literally no options to improve defenses, health, or sustain, but here have Demolish because we all know how much you've been asking for towers to be more of a formality

Aftershock is just a worse courage of the colossus against anything but the most extreme burst (like 1000+ damage) which won't be happeneing anyway if you're building tanky to get its bonus resistances. Preventing some damage through bonus resistances is just worse than preventing all damage with a shield.

Guardian does literally nothing for nonsupports and even on them it has way too long of a cooldown for way to little of an effect

The final slot are linearly departed from the prior masteries, at best. Second Wind is just a worse Fearless, Revitalize is worse than combining windspeaker's and 5 runic armors, worse than windspeakers on its own, and better than 5 runics on their own. Overgrowth only rewards lane bullies that can force their opponent off cs even more than they are rewarded already.

No siegemaster to protect from dives No legendary guardian to protect from ganks and help in team fights Removal of the innate 5% armor and MR bonuses No Tough skin to make characters that a bad at trading (Like say, low damage tanks ) shore up a major weakness

Missing armor reds (8.5 armor) and armor quints (13 Armor)

Removal of 12 flat MR and 8 flat magic pen (4 flat MR missing) Removal of 1.5 MR per level (1.1 MR per level accounting for missing flat magic pen)

Damage dealers got 8.5 AD to compensate for missing reds, but also have the AD from rune set bonuses.

Magic damage dealers similarly get AP from runes.

Meanwhile Resolve grants a paltry 130 HP, 2 more than what could be granted from 3 flat health quints + Veteran's scars, Less than 350 gold worth of health. AS, AP, and AD get more than 500 gold worth of their offensive stat.

Fix this shit.

It doesn't blow for pure tank. Blow for other dudes. Also make revitalize increase health regen, thanks.

It's funny how ADCs can literally pick any mastery in the entire game, then you have mages who only have 1-2 usable masteries, tanks with only one decent rune and then bruisers with none.

Ah yes, aftershock is the shittiest mastery in the game. /s

anyone else feel like the armor/mr masteries are a non-choice? I mean I could get a bit of armor, I could get a bit of mr, or I could get the same amount of both at the same time, and just have to wait a few minutes. I mean the numbers arent enough to make much difference in a lane so why not just get the one that gives both?

I like to take resolve second on ADC for the resistances at 10 but there isn't really a good second rune. I play a lot of Ashe so Font of Life seems nice but it only ever grants like mayne 150 health at the end of the game. Ashe has over 550 range so Demolish is clunky since I have to get closer that I need to. The tenacity one I haven't bothered with because if I get rooted I'm dead anyways so it doesn't matter. The health gain is too slow since you think with farming it will stack but 26 minutes in it only gives you like 50 HP, ADCs don't heal others, and second wind maybe but again if you get hit some HP regen probably won't help since you are likely dead in this meta.

Agreed. I'd rather like to play Klepto/Resilience Bard and do more actual trades rather than the current meta of all-ins. Unfortunately, with Sorcery being so strong, providing better mana regen for heals than can heal me OR my ADC its kind of a no-brainer to take it instead.

Honestly i think people underestimate them a decent bit. Overgrowth+Grasp (and sometimes Celestial Body) Is A LOT of bonus HP on a tank.

And while conditioning is flat better than its opposition, on certain champs with built in healing the other 2 CAN be useful if you arent going for PURE damage and rather safety against a scary opponent (Issue is this is useless anywhere other than draft.)

Demolish (duh) is strong. And Font of life is okay on some supports if they do take primary resolve (however typically its beaten out by demolish anyway.)

How to FIX defense: Iron Skin + Mirror shell need to be LANE. Sure most of lane you wont be able to have conditioning, but the prerequisite of HEALING make the other 2 useless on non-healing champs, and champs that cant start corrupting. Some of which could use defense. How do you fix? Well change the prerequisite of HEALING to something like "Gain X Defense, When hit by a [Physical/Magical] attack gain 10%~ resistance to that type for 3 seconds [X Second CS]" To help with SOME trades, But not all (So it isnt TOO strong.) And also working on champions who dont have built in healing.

Unflinching is garbage, Sums are on too long of a cooldown to have a bonus effect only ON them, especially since something like TP (you know, the sum top laners like) would be useless with it unless you are TPing on a minion. Sure the Tenacity is nice when they are on CD, but you are also more vulnerable on CDs so... How to fix? Just give a flat tenacity Rune or something thats less time-gated.

Font of life needs a buff or demolish needs a nerf (specifically in sscaling)... either really.

Revitalize needs to be mini Spirits, Health Regen, Consumables. Anything Trundle/Spirits effect, Revitalize should effect.

Second Wind could probably be a bit stronger.

The Keystones honestly are fine, People rag on Grasp but its not aweful. Aftershock is terrifying on certain champs, and Guardian is strong on the champions its meant for... Like Braum.

If bruisers were to get a Keystone i think it should probably be in another Runeset. Bruisers are the most damaging out of all of the "tankier" groups so it (At least IMO) makes more sense.

Good, we all know how fustrating hexdrinker 2.0 and perfect timing can be to lane against, anymore than that what'd be the point of even having counterpicks when you can just pick runes to nullify them.

I really like conditioning + overgrowth secondary as safe mages. Come mid game with I have 110ish armor, 50ish MR, and around 2200 HP so killing me is actually pretty difficult.

What defensive masteries?

Not really, unless you are taking them on non tanky champs as the primary runes. Grasp, font of life, conditioning and overgrowth are my go to for playing tahm kench supp, and in terms of damage, grasp is on par with comet (comet is an easy hit when you use your q) and that doesn't even show the hp stacking. Font of life heals for 1-2k hp every game, and overgrowth gives around 200 hp. I don't see the need to buff these runes, because they are fine as it is and buffing them will just result in people whining about a "tank meta"